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Author Topic: 24 bit recorder without microphone attached?  (Read 1873 times)

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Offline kylieshotpants

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24 bit recorder without microphone attached?
« on: January 02, 2017, 05:52:22 PM »
Hi

does such a thing exist, for my stealth purposes the on board mics are never used, but cannot find a model without these- can anyone recommend anything please?

btw Happy new year!

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: 24 bit recorder without microphone attached?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2017, 05:28:07 AM »
Just get one of the many recorders where the mics are flat to the chassis, like a used M10. No bigger than if there were no onboards.

If you insist on no onboard mics you could get a used Microtrack 1, but there are other problems with that machine.
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Offline Ronmac

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Re: 24 bit recorder without microphone attached?
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2017, 07:00:17 AM »
iPhone/iPad?

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 24 bit recorder without microphone attached?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2017, 08:57:23 AM »
^ has mic attached!
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

"Narrow or widely spaced microphone configurations are preferred. It is well-known experience that pure coincidence microphone concepts are not able to produce a satisfying natural spatial impression, due to the lack of adequate interchannel temporal relations (time-of-arrival, phase, correlation)" -Günther Theile
"The mix of the Double M/S signals with a large A/B configuration of omnis results in the spacious sound that is often desired. This option also provides decorrelated low-frequency signals." -Helmut Wittek

Offline dogmusic

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Re: 24 bit recorder without microphone attached?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2017, 10:02:05 AM »
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 24 bit recorder without microphone attached?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2017, 11:10:51 AM »
^ mono only.

Otherwise it could make for a quite interesting recorder for us. I've dreamed of a 6 channel version of something similar for years, which just ain't gonna happen, but a plain jane stereo capable version would be tre cool.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 02:54:21 PM by Gutbucket »
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

"Narrow or widely spaced microphone configurations are preferred. It is well-known experience that pure coincidence microphone concepts are not able to produce a satisfying natural spatial impression, due to the lack of adequate interchannel temporal relations (time-of-arrival, phase, correlation)" -Günther Theile
"The mix of the Double M/S signals with a large A/B configuration of omnis results in the spacious sound that is often desired. This option also provides decorrelated low-frequency signals." -Helmut Wittek

Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: 24 bit recorder without microphone attached?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2017, 11:13:14 AM »
TASCAM DR-10L ?

http://tascam.com/product/dr-10l/

Mono!

Given the size of the existing crop - I can't see too much downside to the built ins.

And - you have a backup source if your mics fail - or find yourself in a situation where you can't wear mics.
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Offline rippleish20

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Re: 24 bit recorder without microphone attached?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2017, 01:04:17 PM »
Zoom H6
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Offline daspyknows

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Re: 24 bit recorder without microphone attached?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2017, 01:34:23 PM »

Offline ~Jon Stoppable

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Re: 24 bit recorder without microphone attached?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2017, 03:59:49 PM »
^ mono only.

Otherwise it could make for a quite interesting recorder for us. I've dreamed of a 6 channel version of something similar for years, which just ain't gonna happen, but a plain jane stereo capable version would be tre cool.

Are there any small stereo recorders that can do 192kHz?  If so, it's possible to multiplex eight 44.1kHz channels into stereo 192kHz.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 24 bit recorder without microphone attached?
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2017, 06:22:13 PM »
Core Sound once planned to market a preamp which mux'd 4 channels to 2, with software demuxing of the resulting files back to 4, but it never panned out.  Let me see if I can find a link.
Here- http://www.core-sound.com/4Mic/1.php

That required a 96 or 192kHz SPDIF input recorder, with the Microtracker the small recorder option targeted for doing so at the time.  That was prior to the availability of lower cost analog input multichannel recorders which squashed the market for it, the R-44 came out right around that time, then cheaper Tascams and Zooms.  Plus it was about as large as the 4 and 6 channel all-in one recorders now available, and probably around the same cost or more.

But I've wondered if the same could be done robustly enough with a mux'd analog output to withstand the D>A>D conversion necessary to use a small recorder which only has analog inputs.  Not sure if the real world bandwidth of the available small recorders would be up to it though.  The now discontinued Tascam Dr2d can record 4 channels at 24/96, dunno it's realworld S/N capability or frequency range though.  But it could potentially capture 8 channels at 44.1 that way, and the ubiquitous Sony M10 or the like 4.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

"Narrow or widely spaced microphone configurations are preferred. It is well-known experience that pure coincidence microphone concepts are not able to produce a satisfying natural spatial impression, due to the lack of adequate interchannel temporal relations (time-of-arrival, phase, correlation)" -Günther Theile
"The mix of the Double M/S signals with a large A/B configuration of omnis results in the spacious sound that is often desired. This option also provides decorrelated low-frequency signals." -Helmut Wittek

Offline voltronic

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Re: 24 bit recorder without microphone attached?
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2017, 09:24:30 PM »
^ mono only.

Otherwise it could make for a quite interesting recorder for us. I've dreamed of a 6 channel version of something similar for years, which just ain't gonna happen, but a plain jane stereo capable version would be tre cool.

Are there any small stereo recorders that can do 192kHz?  If so, it's possible to multiplex eight 44.1kHz channels into stereo 192kHz.

The new Tascam DR-100 mkIII does 192 kHz, but I think the smallest may be Sonosax miniR82.  That one fits the OP's needs of very small size and no attached mics, but it's WAY expensive (4500 EUR last I heard).  I'm sure there are others out there.
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Offline jefflester

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Re: 24 bit recorder without microphone attached?
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2017, 09:34:22 PM »
TASCAM DR-10L ?

http://tascam.com/product/dr-10l/
Or http://tascam.com/product/dr-10x/overview/

Just use two and sync later.  :D


Input/output ratings
・Analog input
Mic jack
Connector XLR JACK (female) (1: GND, 2: HOT, 3: COLD)

When MIC GAIN external input (EXT) selected (HOT pin unbalanced input)
Maximum input level: −8 dBu
Nominal input level: −24 dBu

When MIC GAIN mic input (LO/MID/HI) selected (balanced input)
Maximum input level: −31 dBu
Minimum input level: −63 dBu
Mic input gain
LO: +29 dB
MID: +35 dB
HI: +45 dB
Input impedance: 10 kΩ or more
 
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 09:37:31 PM by jefflester »
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Offline ~Jon Stoppable

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Re: 24 bit recorder without microphone attached?
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2017, 10:20:10 PM »
Core Sound once planned to market a preamp which mux'd 4 channels to 2, with software demuxing of the resulting files back to 4, but it never panned out.  Let me see if I can find a link.

It's a bit easier if you stay digital because that's just data packing.  But it can be done successfully in analogland, it's easier with a trip through A/D/A because of the niceties of DSP, but pure analog is possible, just as with FM radio.

I have a sketch of a 4x2 mux with PIP input, but I was kinda waiting on a promised newer DSP chip before I pulled the trigger on the design.  That might be later this year.  It wouldn't be much of a change to do 4x1 and use two of those, so long as the receiving recorder actually has about 88kHz bandwidth at 192kHz.

Offline John Willett

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Re: 24 bit recorder without microphone attached?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2017, 08:34:45 AM »
Nagra SD - the mic. section is detachable and if you ask Nagra nicely they may sell you one without the mic.

I have had mine since it came out - excellent.



This is the SD without the mic.

 

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