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Author Topic: need some advice to adjust my equipment  (Read 529 times)

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Offline slowblow

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need some advice to adjust my equipment
« on: November 14, 2017, 01:28:37 PM »
Hi All,
I need you !
my gear is SP-CMC-8 > SP-SPSB-6 > Olympus LS-P2
my problem is the Olympus has only a mic input, not line input.
this is the first time I will use this equipment.
Should I use the bass roll-off settings in my battery box ?
what advice can you give me to have a good recording?
thanks a lot !

Offline beatkilla

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Re: need some advice to adjust my equipment
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 02:03:26 PM »
No bass roll off.

Offline bombdiggity

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Re: need some advice to adjust my equipment
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2017, 02:05:38 PM »
I would not use the bass roll off.  Tiny mics don't need that and you can do it yourself in editing with more precision if something like that is needed. 

You should be able to use the mic input.  I don't think that thing provides too high an output.  Set your levels manually and make sure you're not running too loud. 

Make sure the mics stay steadily oriented in the same consistent direction. 

Have fun. 
Gear:
Audio:
Schoeps MK4V
Nak CM-100/CM-300 w/ CP-1's or CP-4's
SP-CMC-25
>
Oade C mod R-44  OR
Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10 (formerly Roland R-05) 
Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: need some advice to adjust my equipment
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2017, 02:51:35 PM »
Try to make the recording from wherever it sound sounds best to you.
Point at the auditory center of sound, not the apparent visual center.
Set your levels so that you have a comfortable range below clipping.
Practice prior to an important recording.
All the little stuff: Clean your wire connections, make sure your batteries are charged, reformat your memory card when it becomes full rather than deleting files from it, etc..

Quote
I would not use the bass roll off.  Tiny mics don't need that..
Not using the bass-rolloff on the battery box and/or recorder is good advice.  Set your levels low enough to accommodate the bass and modify the file appropriately afterwards if you find it would benefit from bass reduction. However, the size of a microphone has no relation to its bass sensitivity.
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Offline bombdiggity

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Re: need some advice to adjust my equipment
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2017, 10:21:26 PM »

Quote
I would not use the bass roll off.  Tiny mics don't need that..
Not using the bass-rolloff on the battery box and/or recorder is good advice.  Set your levels low enough to accommodate the bass and modify the file appropriately afterwards if you find it would benefit from bass reduction. However, the size of a microphone has no relation to its bass sensitivity.

True that's not the proximate cause but none of the little cardioid mics people use for stealth purposes are ever likely to have too full a low end.  Even similar profile omnis that seems unlikely. 

We do all agree whatever it is should be adjusted in post. 
Gear:
Audio:
Schoeps MK4V
Nak CM-100/CM-300 w/ CP-1's or CP-4's
SP-CMC-25
>
Oade C mod R-44  OR
Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10 (formerly Roland R-05) 
Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: need some advice to adjust my equipment
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 08:11:08 AM »

Quote
I would not use the bass roll off.  Tiny mics don't need that..
Not using the bass-rolloff on the battery box and/or recorder is good advice.  Set your levels low enough to accommodate the bass and modify the file appropriately afterwards if you find it would benefit from bass reduction. However, the size of a microphone has no relation to its bass sensitivity.

True that's not the proximate cause but none of the little cardioid mics people use for stealth purposes are ever likely to have too full a low end.  Even similar profile omnis that seems unlikely. 

We do all agree whatever it is should be adjusted in post.

The CA omnis I use have some serious bass response. Especially in comparison to their card brethren
Mics: Berliner CM-33, CA-14 card, CA-11 card & omni, AT-853, Sony ECM-907
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-05, Sony Hi-MD

Offline aaronji

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Re: need some advice to adjust my equipment
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 08:37:14 AM »
^^ Many small omnis have good bass response (look at the frequency plots for the DPA 4060, Sennheiser MKE-2 or Countryman B3, for example).  Cards, on the other hand, tend to have comparatively poor low-end, even the high-quality SDCs, unless used very close to the source (due to proximity effect)...

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: need some advice to adjust my equipment
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2017, 08:50:54 AM »
Many small cardioids are intended for speech and intentionally have less bass sensitivity, but that's not always the case.  I recall AT853 for instance having pretty significant bass response, more so than AT933 or other miniature cardioids from AT.  Almost all miniature omnis are flat to very low frequencies with exactly the same response as larger omnis.  If there is a response difference trend with small omnis it is that they tend have more treble boost for use as lavaliere mics, the bottom end extension doesn't differ much.

A better metric to use than microphone size is the manufacturer's intended use and target market for the microphone.  For the most part we're re-purposing equipment intended for other applications, and in figuring out what can be adapted to work well for our purposes it becomes helpful to learn how to correctly differentiate why one small mic may not be like another.

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Offline slowblow

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Re: need some advice to adjust my equipment
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2017, 03:40:36 PM »
Many thanks for the help.
no problem of sound ? (distorsion ?) if I record with the mic input instead of a line input ?

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: need some advice to adjust my equipment
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2017, 05:36:34 PM »
Not sure about the max input level of the Olympus LS-P2, as it's not a very common recorder around here at TS.

Yes it is possible to overload the mic input.  If you find you are getting distortion, engaging the bass-cut on the battery box may reduce output level to the recorder enough to prevent the distortion, and would be appropriate if you cannot lower the input level of the recorder sufficiently to prevent distortion.  In that case you can somewhat restore the lost bass afterwards with equalization if the cut is too much, but often not entirely (the basis upon which the general "don't use bass-cut" recommendations are made).  However, doing so is far preferable to a distorted recording.

A complication is that with small recorders there is often a lower limit somewhere within the full range of input level adjustability, below which the input will still distort even though the meters no longer reach full-scale and indicate 'over' or clipping.  That's a symptom of the analog input stage of the recorder clipping prior to analog to digital conversion, which is where the metering happens.  Finding that "do no go below" input setting is something folks figure out around here whenever a new small recorder comes into mainstream use.  Often the term used around here for that is "brickwalling" since the action of the meters tends to not bounce as much as one would normally see, instead sort of 'ceiling out' as if hitting a brickwall at some arbitrary level.

You'l need to try it with various settings to see what works.  Expect a few failed test recordings before you really nail it.

Hope that helps.
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Offline adrianf74

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Re: need some advice to adjust my equipment
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2017, 12:30:11 PM »
^^ Many small omnis have good bass response (look at the frequency plots for the DPA 4060, Sennheiser MKE-2 or Countryman B3, for example).  Cards, on the other hand, tend to have comparatively poor low-end, even the high-quality SDCs, unless used very close to the source (due to proximity effect)...

Speaking of which... I'll never forget being at a small club show (about 1000 people) where it was bass and drums, mainly, and the recording was NOTHING BUT BASS using DPA 4061's.  Thankfully, I could roll that off in post and it sounded great.  If I'd rolled it off on a battery box, it could've been a complete mess.

Offline live2cd

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Re: need some advice to adjust my equipment
« Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 03:45:24 PM »
are there any advantages of using the bass roll off then? just curious. I rarely use mine with the HEB's, but its there if I need it.
DPA 4060 [CS HEB] > CS BB
CA-14 (c) > CA 9200
CA-14 (o) > CA 9200
AT853 (c) (4.7k mod) > SP-SPSB-11
pri deck: Sony PCM M10 | alt deck: TASCAM DR‑2D

 

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