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Author Topic: SD 744T Line-In levels question:  (Read 296 times)

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Offline nak700s

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SD 744T Line-In levels question:
« on: December 03, 2017, 11:06:36 AM »
Hey all, I must say, I love this forum and the ability to be able to ask like-minded tapers various questions and get responses based on real life experience.
Onward to my question:
When using the line-ins on the Sound Devices 744T (not the mic/line in), I'm looking for a better way to regulate my recording levels without the feeling that I'm using a limiter to keep my levels in check.  When I use a 2-mic (mic in) configuration along with a soundboard patch (line in), I don't see much flexibility other than to set my line ins at -6.0, or higher depending on the output from the board.  This is usually fine, but it would be nice to have alternatives, especially when the soundboard is pumping out a signal that is higher than it should be.  More of an issue for me, is when doing a 4-mic set-up.  Two of my mics are Nak 700's, which use their own power source.  The other two mics are Crown 700's, which need phantom power.  That said, without using an external preamp, I'm forced to run the Naks into the line in and the Crowns into the mic in, which is not my first choice.
Now, finally, for my question... if I used a preamp (thinking SD 302 or SD mixpre-d) what would I do with the internal settings on the line in, which would now be accommodating the crown mics through a preamp, leaving the mic in for the Naks.  Is setting the internal level the same effect as using a limiter and pushing the levels, to the point where if I set those levels at "0", I would have full control using the pre?  I may not have phrased this question as well as I could have, but I'm sure 744T users understand my problem.
Thanks in advance  :help:
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 02:52:59 PM by nak700s »
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline Justy Gyee

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Re: SD 744T Line-In levels question:
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2017, 11:56:59 AM »
I think you want to check your gain sensitivity settings.
it may be set to "normal", you would want to run "Low"
I think you're asking... if you should take the signal from your pre and input it to your 744 at line in/zero gain.
I would answer that question with a yes, and control your levels via the pre.

if it aint broke, don't fix it

Offline nak700s

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Re: SD 744T Line-In levels question:
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2017, 02:40:16 PM »
Essentially, yes, that is the question.  Being primarily a Nak 700's guy, I normally have no use for a pre-amp or phantom power, and under normal circumstances, I wouldn't use my 744T with my stealth rig that requires one.  I have a recently acquired an SD 302 which is on it's way to me now, and I will be using it with other mics that require phantom power and a pre.  Although I can use the 744T with them without the use of a pre, I need one when running 4 mics.  Also, last weekend, I ran the mics (mic in) in a very close proximity ("stage lip") to the amps and drums, and had to set the input levels so low that it made me question if there's a better way.  When running into the line in inputs, I can only set the level internally on the 744T, which gives very little flexibility...  So, are you saying I should set the internal level (or is it actually a limiter?) to 0?  The "low" setting you are referring to, is that a low cut?  I wouldn't want to add a low cut to the mics (although a -10db to -15db attenuation might be nice).  Also, do you know what the advantage is to having a gain and a fader on the 302?  Am I able to attenuate, while also having full range over the input?
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline microburst

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Re: SD 744T Line-In levels question:
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2017, 04:42:39 PM »
Essentially, yes, that is the question.  Being primarily a Nak 700's guy, I normally have no use for a pre-amp or phantom power, and under normal circumstances, I wouldn't use my 744T with my stealth rig that requires one.  I have a recently acquired an SD 302 which is on it's way to me now, and I will be using it with other mics that require phantom power and a pre.  Although I can use the 744T with them without the use of a pre, I need one when running 4 mics.  Also, last weekend, I ran the mics (mic in) in a very close proximity ("stage lip") to the amps and drums, and had to set the input levels so low that it made me question if there's a better way.  When running into the line in inputs, I can only set the level internally on the 744T, which gives very little flexibility...  So, are you saying I should set the internal level (or is it actually a limiter?) to 0?  The "low" setting you are referring to, is that a low cut?  I wouldn't want to add a low cut to the mics (although a -10db to -15db attenuation might be nice).  Also, do you know what the advantage is to having a gain and a fader on the 302?  Am I able to attenuate, while also having full range over the input?

The normal and low gain setting impact your overall gain range on the preamps (channels 1 and 2).  Those are set through menu options 25 and 26.  The gain range on line inputs 3/4 (or 1/2 if used for line in) is -6dB to +18dB and I don't believe that can be changed.

One nice aspect of the 788T is that it offers line in range from -26dB to +60dB (I think).
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 04:46:25 PM by microburst »

Offline nak700s

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Re: SD 744T Line-In levels question:
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2017, 05:04:30 PM »
Essentially, yes, that is the question.  Being primarily a Nak 700's guy, I normally have no use for a pre-amp or phantom power, and under normal circumstances, I wouldn't use my 744T with my stealth rig that requires one.  I have a recently acquired an SD 302 which is on it's way to me now, and I will be using it with other mics that require phantom power and a pre.  Although I can use the 744T with them without the use of a pre, I need one when running 4 mics.  Also, last weekend, I ran the mics (mic in) in a very close proximity ("stage lip") to the amps and drums, and had to set the input levels so low that it made me question if there's a better way.  When running into the line in inputs, I can only set the level internally on the 744T, which gives very little flexibility...  So, are you saying I should set the internal level (or is it actually a limiter?) to 0?  The "low" setting you are referring to, is that a low cut?  I wouldn't want to add a low cut to the mics (although a -10db to -15db attenuation might be nice).  Also, do you know what the advantage is to having a gain and a fader on the 302?  Am I able to attenuate, while also having full range over the input?

The normal and low gain setting impact your overall gain range on the preamps (channels 1 and 2).  Those are set through menu options 25 and 26.  The gain range on line inputs 3/4 (or 1/2 if used for line in) is -6dB to +18dB and I don't believe that can be changed.

One nice aspect of the 788T is that it offers line in range from -26dB to +60dB (I think).

OK, so by going from normal to low gain (I am assuming I'm set at normal), I am doing what, giving more control (head room?) to the pre?  When using the pre with those mics (Crown CM-700's), I would need to go into the line in (3 & 4), as opposed to the mic in (1& 2), because I will also be using my Nak 700's in the Mic in (1 & 2).  Isn't the internal setting for level control on the line ins (3 & 4) basically a limiter, preventing the levels to exceed the setting chosen?  I'm not really sure I understand how that function actually works, but luckily I've been getting good results so far (normally, I'm patched out of a soundboard > the line ins, while using mics > mic ins).
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline microburst

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Re: SD 744T Line-In levels question:
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2017, 05:28:55 PM »
Essentially, yes, that is the question.  Being primarily a Nak 700's guy, I normally have no use for a pre-amp or phantom power, and under normal circumstances, I wouldn't use my 744T with my stealth rig that requires one.  I have a recently acquired an SD 302 which is on it's way to me now, and I will be using it with other mics that require phantom power and a pre.  Although I can use the 744T with them without the use of a pre, I need one when running 4 mics.  Also, last weekend, I ran the mics (mic in) in a very close proximity ("stage lip") to the amps and drums, and had to set the input levels so low that it made me question if there's a better way.  When running into the line in inputs, I can only set the level internally on the 744T, which gives very little flexibility...  So, are you saying I should set the internal level (or is it actually a limiter?) to 0?  The "low" setting you are referring to, is that a low cut?  I wouldn't want to add a low cut to the mics (although a -10db to -15db attenuation might be nice).  Also, do you know what the advantage is to having a gain and a fader on the 302?  Am I able to attenuate, while also having full range over the input?

The normal and low gain setting impact your overall gain range on the preamps (channels 1 and 2).  Those are set through menu options 25 and 26.  The gain range on line inputs 3/4 (or 1/2 if used for line in) is -6dB to +18dB and I don't believe that can be changed.

One nice aspect of the 788T is that it offers line in range from -26dB to +60dB (I think).

OK, so by going from normal to low gain (I am assuming I'm set at normal), I am doing what, giving more control (head room?) to the pre?  When using the pre with those mics (Crown CM-700's), I would need to go into the line in (3 & 4), as opposed to the mic in (1& 2), because I will also be using my Nak 700's in the Mic in (1 & 2).  Isn't the internal setting for level control on the line ins (3 & 4) basically a limiter, preventing the levels to exceed the setting chosen?  I'm not really sure I understand how that function actually works, but luckily I've been getting good results so far (normally, I'm patched out of a soundboard > the line ins, while using mics > mic ins).

Normal mic input gain range is from +26 dB to +70 dB, low gain mic range is +10 dB to +50dB. 

The internal setting for line inputs 3/4 (menu options 33 and 34) adjust the gain (or attenuation) provided to the input source from -6dB to +28dB in .1dB increments.  This is not a limiter.  The limiter is engaged using menu option 20 and only applies to the mic inputs (1/2) when the mic input setting is engaged.

Offline nak700s

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Re: SD 744T Line-In levels question:
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2017, 05:53:01 PM »
Cool, thank you.  I don't suppose you're also familiar with the controls on the SD 302, are you?  I haven't received it yet, so I haven't had a chance to play with it...but between the gain and the fader it's making me wonder how to adjust.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline microburst

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Re: SD 744T Line-In levels question:
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2017, 06:18:40 PM »
Cool, thank you.  I don't suppose you're also familiar with the controls on the SD 302, are you?  I haven't received it yet, so I haven't had a chance to play with it...but between the gain and the fader it's making me wonder how to adjust.

Nope, never used one but the user manual is usually a good place to start.  Never hurts to read a little before using a deck for the 1st time

Offline nak700s

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Re: SD 744T Line-In levels question:
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2017, 06:47:01 PM »
Cool, thank you.  I don't suppose you're also familiar with the controls on the SD 302, are you?  I haven't received it yet, so I haven't had a chance to play with it...but between the gain and the fader it's making me wonder how to adjust.

Nope, never used one but the user manual is usually a good place to start.  Never hurts to read a little before using a deck for the 1st time

I do read them (usually), but remembering and comprehending are another story  ???
I have used Nakamichi microphones for a very long time, so I've never had a need for a pre amp before now.  I don't count the CA9200, I mean, let's face it, that thing isn't brain surgery.  I'd rather look like a fool for asking stupid questions and avoid a mistake that could cost me a show, than to hold onto my pride and screw something up.  I will take all of the knowledge I learn from you and others and experiment at a bar with a local band before taking it into a big show, but want to be ready for the Phish NYE run so I can run a 4-track set-up.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

 

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