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Author Topic: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2  (Read 34807 times)

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Offline IMPigpen

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #345 on: March 07, 2019, 02:40:58 PM »
^ Very nice implementation, clean & simple.

Looking at the first photo posted above, it might be advantageous to slide the clamp left a touch.  That accomplishes two things- It centers the clamp's thumb-screw on the joint between the two antennas, where the threaded insert ends provide significant "hoop-strength" which keeps the tube from being crushed if you really crank down on the thumb-screw, and secondly centers the antenna-bar on a typical diameter stand upright, which is just a tweaky thing and of negligible acoustical significance.

The erasers are Moke's method of attaching small lav omnis.  He cuts a notch in the rubber wedge end to hold the mic cable.  Personally I never got that method to hold securely and just use a small square of gaffer tape.

Thanks for the input Gutbucket.  That makes sense and I'll give it a try! 

And yes, I was inspired by Moke's eraser idea.  The only difference is, since the Naiant's are a little bigger than DPA or Countryman lav omnis, I use Movo lapel clips clamped onto the erasers.   They provide something for the clip to bite into and not rotate on the round antenna.
Mics: Neumann KM184s; Naiant X-R omnis & cards; MM-BSM-7M omnis
Pres: Naiant IPA
Recorders: Tascam DR-60Dmkii; Tascam DR-40
Cassette Transfers:  Nakamichi CR-1A->Tascam DR-60Dmkii

My LMA uploads:  https://archive.org/details/@brandon_smith

**Have any old Strangefolk or Eddie From Ohio shows not on the LMA?  Let me know!**

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #346 on: March 07, 2019, 03:47:35 PM »
I use Movo lapel clips clamped onto the erasers.   They provide something for the clip to bite into and not rotate on the round antenna.

That sounds like it would work well, with the sprung clip getting a good bite onto the rubber eraser.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline kindms

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #347 on: March 25, 2019, 07:25:00 PM »
Some panic OMT fun

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?torrentId=604854

Widespread Panic

2019-03-22

The Capitol Theatre
Port Chester, NY

Source:AKG ck3 (1ft split forward / Rear) >V2 >DR680
Source:AKG ck61 (2ft split left/right 90deg from stage) >DR680
Source:DPA 4061 (3f split) >V2 >DR680
Transfer:SD >Audacity >CD WAV Editor >TLH >FLAC
AKG c426, AKG414 XLS/ST, AKG ck61, ck22, >nBob colettes >PFA > V3, SD MixPre >  TCM-Mod Tascam HDP2, Sony M10
Little Bear tube Pre >Outlaw Audio 2200 Monoblocks > VR-2's

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #348 on: March 25, 2019, 10:23:15 PM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   rig pic
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #349 on: March 26, 2019, 10:44:04 AM »
Crazy lookin' animatronic octopus up there!

Thx. On the torrent..
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #350 on: March 26, 2019, 11:41:50 AM »
Crazy lookin' animatronic octopus up there!

Thx. On the torrent..
We were "blaming" you all weekend. "Damn that gutbucket, now we have all these channels and they DO sound great all combined"!
We did an OMT 6 on FRI night and an OMT8 on SAT night. 
the SAT 2019-03-23 OMT8 config:
Source:AKG ck3 (1ft split forward / Rear) >V2 >DR680
Source:AKG ck61 (2ft split left/right 90deg from stage) >DR680
Source:DPA 4061 (3f split) >V2 >DR680
Source:AKG c426 XY hypercardioid >V3 > DR680
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 09:22:04 PM by rocksuitcase »
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #351 on: March 26, 2019, 01:24:40 PM »
I'll be the scapegoat!

How are you guys liking the 4061s?  You realize that with them you now have no excuse not to push the omnis out further to 5'+ !  Doing that is especially fruitful when incorporating the multiple directional mics in the middle.  Everything breathes. Super phat booty bottom.  Damn it Gutbucket! 

Curious if you tried the C426 XY hyper in place of the center fwd ck3 in the mix this time.

I'll post some photos of my OMT8 rig strapped to a narrow outdoor patio column for Marcus King last weekend.  Moved it inside for George Porter Jr Trio and the all star family jam, which served as good test of the identical rig both inside and outside, at about the same distance from and orientation with the stage/PA, and with a similar sized crowd and "room".

Tentative comparison conclusion- As expected and discussed previously, I want the L/R supers pointed mostly sideways outdoors, but prefer to angle them 45-degrees forward toward the PA in a more reverberant indoor environment so I'll be thinking more about modifying the rig to make that easier without having to removing the big Shure windscreens to angle them forward. Conclusion is tentative as the only listening so far involved two pair of headphones, nudity, and a lovely listening partner on golden sun-lit Sunday afternoon - a very highly recommended configuration BTW, for which I'm fully willing to take the blame if you find such high fidelity enjoyable.

musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #352 on: March 26, 2019, 01:33:06 PM »

Curious if you tried the C426 XY hyper in place of the center fwd ck3 in the mix this time.

That's why we ran both C426 XY hyper AND fwd|rear ck3 for SAT 3-23! Not only that, but in the mix, I tried eliminating one or the other of them and ultimately kept them both and used all eight channels in the final mix (adjusted for tone and taste of course)
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #353 on: March 26, 2019, 03:50:35 PM »
Ha! 

Yep, you're hooked.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #354 on: March 27, 2019, 02:33:19 PM »
Grabbed a set of these from ebay to experiment with.

https://imgur.com/a/NQCtChx

I've decided to move in a different direction (center omni) and sold my 853s. If anyone is interested in grabbing this antennae set, please PM. I can post in YS, but wanted to give OMT guys first dibs.
Mics: nbobs/480+ck61/62/63; C568EB; MKE2
Pre: FP24
Recorders: MP6; A10
puddylivemusic@gmail.com

Offline ycoop

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #355 on: March 27, 2019, 03:06:05 PM »
https://archive.org/details/spafford2019-03-24.SanRafaelCA.ycoop

My first show that I went without a safety pair and went XY90 with the center pair. I think I should have gone with a narrower angle, maybe XY60 or 75, due to using the hypers. The midrange isn’t as clear as I would like. I went with DINa hypers on the first night, but people were talking so much I can’t really make a direct comparison. I was also made aware that the PA system isn’t in stereo, so I made the decision to align my rig with the nearest PA array. I was situated pretty far LOC so this seemed the way to go. Incidentally the drummer was located stage left, and the venue is small enough that the percussion is still localized to the right channel, which is nice.

As for processing I took the omnis and split them into bass and everything else (low pass filter around 400 Hz). I summed the bass to mono and bumped the midrange and high end of the “everything else” and then mixed the three tracks (center pair, omni bass, Omni everything else) to taste. On my cans at home this sounded pretty nice, though on my cheapo work BT earbuds the bass is too high in the mix. I’m thinking the overall bass heaviness has to do with how much of the sound was reverberant and/or off axis. I would appreciate feedback on how the mix sounds.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 04:29:51 PM by ycoop »
Mics: Avantone CK-1s, AT853 c+o
Pres: CA9100
Recorders: DR-60d mkII, DR-2d

Offline heathen

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #356 on: March 27, 2019, 03:55:23 PM »
The midrange isn’t as clear as I would like.

EQ would likely help with that.

I'll hold off on commenting further until I can listen at home.  I will say that I've been rolling off bass more and more often, and particularly trying to hit the "mud" area which I often find to be in the 100Hz-200Hz region.  Dynamic EQ has been really great for dealing with the mud.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031 | AT AE5100 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #357 on: March 27, 2019, 08:38:40 PM »
I'll try to listen tonight at home on good phones if I have time, yet have a trade show starting tomorrow through the weekend I need to prepare for.  Sounds good on the cheap bass-less ear-buds at work. 

Not sure about summing all omni too mono at that relatively high frequency.  I usually prefer the opposite (increased wideness in the bass) for spatial reasons, unless the bass or kick are oddly uncentered or lopsided for whatever reason, and consider that width one of the main benefits of spacing the omnis widely.  There is a good argument for monoizing or at least using less width at the lowest octaves however, say under 80Hz, for maximizing low frequency reproduction energy from small woofers.  At mid and high frequencies above 400hz, you are still getting the benefit of the omni spacing with regards to decorrelated reverb and ambience providing good "openness" in that range.

Have you tried a mix without the monoization? Or pushing that monoize cross-point down low?  Worth comparison I think.  Of course what is right for your recording is what sounds right to you! 

If you like monoing the bass below 400Hz, try this alternate mix method to see if it helps with bass quality: Instead of summing both omnis to mono below 400Hz, try using only one or the other of them panned to center or duplicated to the other channel.  That will eliminate phase interaction between the two which is occurring in the sum due to the spacing / wavelength relationship. The same phase interactions which provide some of the qualities I prefer in stereo bass reproduction (above the lowest octave or two), may be muddying up things when summed to mono.

And in general, I agree with Heathen about EQ being a goto for tweaking the midrange, and dynamic EQ helping the mud-range.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline ycoop

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #358 on: March 27, 2019, 10:21:49 PM »
I'll try to listen tonight at home on good phones if I have time, yet have a trade show starting tomorrow through the weekend I need to prepare for.  Sounds good on the cheap bass-less ear-buds at work. 

Not sure about summing all omni too mono at that relatively high frequency.  I usually prefer the opposite (increased wideness in the bass) for spatial reasons, unless the bass or kick are oddly uncentered or lopsided for whatever reason, and consider that width one of the main benefits of spacing the omnis widely.  There is a good argument for monoizing or at least using less width at the lowest octaves however, say under 80Hz, for maximizing low frequency reproduction energy from small woofers.  At mid and high frequencies above 400hz, you are still getting the benefit of the omni spacing with regards to decorrelated reverb and ambience providing good "openness" in that range.

Have you tried a mix without the monoization? Or pushing that monoize cross-point down low?  Worth comparison I think.  Of course what is right for your recording is what sounds right to you! 

If you like monoing the bass below 400Hz, try this alternate mix method to see if it helps with bass quality: Instead of summing both omnis to mono below 400Hz, try using only one or the other of them panned to center or duplicated to the other channel.  That will eliminate phase interaction between the two which is occurring in the sum due to the spacing / wavelength relationship. The same phase interactions which provide some of the qualities I prefer in stereo bass reproduction (above the lowest octave or two), may be muddying up things when summed to mono.

And in general, I agree with Heathen about EQ being a goto for tweaking the midrange, and dynamic EQ helping the mud-range.

I'm going to play around with the use of a single omni channel option, but so far I definitely prefer how having the low-pass / high-pass line falling out at 120 Hz.

Side note of coolness (this is true of either mix) is that when the drummer switches to his electric drum pad I can hear the sound move to the center.
Mics: Avantone CK-1s, AT853 c+o
Pres: CA9100
Recorders: DR-60d mkII, DR-2d

Offline jcable77

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #359 on: March 27, 2019, 10:36:22 PM »
Not really oddball but ran 4 ch omni’s friday (pretty much thought I had 61’s on actives but the 62’s worked great). 62’s in the center and ADK’s split on stage. Picture isnt great but left is by the keys and right is next to turntable. Monitor out for two ch added some nice vocals and turntable effects.

https://archive.org/details/TG4S2019-03-22
AKG>Sound Devices

 

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