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Author Topic: First show ever, What am I forgetting...  (Read 3042 times)

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Offline G.Kennedy

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Re: First show ever, What am I forgetting...
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2018, 07:40:03 PM »
First off.  The link from Moke is outstanding. I read a bit. And bookmarked it for later. Very nice.

I can easily go up front. And fly low. No problem. The piano is not the feature. Just another instrument in the ensemble. There is also a good chance it will be pushed back a bit as the is no Tympani player this session.

I’ll plan on setting up on the receptical. I think I could even push right up to the stair. And be about Seat high on the conductor. If that would better. My stand is 4’ at lowest. ( C-stand from film industry) But it have a carbon fiber tripod I could use to go low.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: First show ever, What am I forgetting...
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2018, 08:07:44 PM »
Record from the level of the music.

^Seconded.  That will also make a more natural sounding and more forgiving recording.  Violins project upwards and can get screachy sounding from above.  A lower recording perspective gets a warmer string sound which should prove somewhat more flattering for the youth orchestra.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 08:52:38 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: First show ever, What am I forgetting...
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2018, 08:16:27 PM »
4' should be fine, unless it blocks sight-lines too much.

An upfront, low recording perspective will slightly favor the front row of musicians (you'll hear more detail in their playing), but you should hear all orchestra sections in a good relative balance.  A low recording perspective also helps to better balance any horns and percussion.  The horns aren't pointing directly at the mics and the drums and percussion will have more space and depth.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Moke

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Re: First show ever, What am I forgetting...
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2018, 08:21:46 PM »
First off.  The link from Moke is outstanding. I read a bit. And bookmarked it for later. Very nice.

I can easily go up front. And fly low. No problem. The piano is not the feature. Just another instrument in the ensemble. There is also a good chance it will be pushed back a bit as the is no Tympani player this session.

I’ll plan on setting up on the receptical. I think I could even push right up to the stair. And be about Seat high on the conductor. If that would better. My stand is 4’ at lowest. ( C-stand from film industry) But it have a carbon fiber tripod I could use to go low.

My go-to stand, in almost all of my recording is the typical on-stage vocal mic stand, that I cut in half.  Its a steel stand, and a good heavy base, and fugly as all can be now, with rust, and gaudy bright yellow gaffers tape to warn of the legs.
I carry a series of 3/8-16 all thread rod extensions that I've made, that range from 6" to 3', and including a right angle adaptor made from a 1' all-thread rod. FOr female threads, I use the thread rod ferrule connectors, which are essentially really deep nuts (remember: men are bolts, and, women are nuts. It helps in the hardware store).
So, my base stand is two feet, and extends to 4'; to which I can add as many extensions as I need. So, with a 2'>4' base stand, and the extensions. i can quickly run up to 8', with a skinnier profile. But its a rare day when I go higher than 4'->5'. But I do have a 9' Manfrotto monster when needed (rare).

The pic below is with a 2' vertical extension, and a 1' horizontal extension. 3/8-16 thread rod, covered in black heatshrink to make it look less like thread rod..
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 08:25:11 PM by Moke »
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Offline fanofjam

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Re: First show ever, What am I forgetting...
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2018, 09:22:22 PM »
And for gods sake NEVER forget your duct tape...


Offline detroit lightning

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Re: First show ever, What am I forgetting...
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2018, 10:01:28 PM »
Try to take some notes of your location, settings, etc. - anything you can think of. It'll help you the next time!

Have fun, it's going to turn out great!

Offline G.Kennedy

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Re: First show ever, What am I forgetting...
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2018, 10:56:34 PM »
Ok. I reconfigured my stand. From a film lighting stand with too many knobs and silver bits. To a carbon fiber Gitzo camera tripod.

I could get to 5’ if I had to. But that would be in people’s veiw. So easily gets to 4’.

Thank you all for the opinions on stand placement. I’ll report back Sunday morning with some photos and a Soundcloud link for critique.



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Offline fanofjam

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Re: First show ever, What am I forgetting...
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2018, 11:11:06 PM »
It's snowed three inches in Richmond, Virginia today.  Your pool looks inviting.

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Re: First show ever, What am I forgetting...
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2018, 08:10:40 PM »
Good luck and best wishes for your taping.
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Offline Moke

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Re: First show ever, What am I forgetting...
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2018, 08:55:40 PM »
Ok. I reconfigured my stand. From a film lighting stand with too many knobs and silver bits. To a carbon fiber Gitzo camera tripod.

I could get to 5’ if I had to. But that would be in people’s veiw. So easily gets to 4’.

Thank you all for the opinions on stand placement. I’ll report back Sunday morning with some photos and a Soundcloud link for critique.





You might look into some of the Sorbothane isolators that are available in the audiophile world.  You can foot your stand on them rather than having shock mounts.  i use a trio of them regularly, especially if I'm going onto any form of joisted stage, where vibrations will be a problem.
Also,... there are Sorbothane shoe inserts that could be utilized as well.

I've used a trio of these, for years (but just now realized that I've carried four of them for all these years); 2.5" O.D.:
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 09:09:28 PM by Moke »
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Offline G.Kennedy

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Re: First show ever, What am I forgetting...
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2018, 12:04:50 PM »
100% Success!!!!!  It went great. I didn't forget anything at home. All the gear worked seamlessly. I pushed right up front as you suggested.

The audio sounds great. Very revealing of the young players less than perfect technique.

Thank you all for your help. What a great community.

I will select their best tune and load it to Soundclound for your critique. But at this level of playing. I can't imagine anything I could change, to make it better. 

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Offline G.Kennedy

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Re: First show ever, What am I forgetting...
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2018, 07:56:47 PM »
Ok. Here is a track. Not making any excuses for these kids as I feel they are really working hard. Ages 8 to 17. Most are about 10-15. My daughter is 8.  So as you listen. Try to focus on the recording. Not the performance.  I feel this is their best track.

Recorded at 44.1/24. Represented here as 44.1/16 as I am putting it on a CD for the conductor, so that happens to be the file I loaded. I could put up the 44.1/24 track, but I can't imagine that changes anything in this situation.  In Audacity I labeled and split the tracks. Then Effect> Normalize to raise the levels to -1db. Then exported as 44.1/16. Does that seem like a good workflow? 

All opinions welcome. Line Audio CM3 at 30cm/90deg>Tascam DR100mkiii. About 4' high. About 6' behind conductor.  Aimed at -12db and boosted in Audacity.


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Offline nulldogmas

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Re: First show ever, What am I forgetting...
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2018, 10:03:18 PM »
In Audacity I labeled and split the tracks. Then Effect> Normalize to raise the levels to -1db. Then exported as 44.1/16. Does that seem like a good workflow? 

That's how I'd do it. You might be able to get a little more volume boost by applying extremely light dynamic compression on any stray peaks (like that one at about 13 seconds into this track), but it's not really necessary.

Recording sounds great! Nice stereo separation, sound is clear and rich. And the kids aren't half-bad either. Congrats!

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: First show ever, What am I forgetting...
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2018, 02:39:00 PM »
Congrats!

You can now use this setup and recording as a baseline against which to judge any changes you may choose to make for subsequent recordings. 

For instance, since you are getting plenty of direct-sound clarity from that position, you may want to try shifting the recording position back a bit, closer to the front row.  That will shift the direct-sound/reverberant-sound balance towards a slightly less-close/more-reverberant sound, lessening the focus on the details of the musicianship and blending things a bit more sort of like a softer-focus lens.  That sort of depends on the purpose of the recordings- teaching tool for the kids to really hear themselves in the ensemble as clearly as possible, verses making a recording which sounds as flattering as possible for the ensemble as a whole.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline rigpimp

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Re: First show ever, What am I forgetting...
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2018, 02:59:39 PM »
I can't imagine anything I could change, to make it better.

Congratulations, on your first pull!  It sounds great and has cool separation.  I am sure it well represents what was heard in the room.

I highlighted a quote above for you to think about as you move forward.  You can ALWAYS change and there is ALWAYS opportunity to make it different, and sometimes better. 

Do not short sell your ability or opportunities and experiment, experiment, experiment.  Like gutbucket states each time you make an adjustment make notes on how that shift changes the sound.  What you will find is that as you stack experience you can quickly look at a room and have an idea where to set up and with what configuration, just by knowing your gear and by sight.  If I am in a public venue I often take two small narrow strips of gaffers tape and put an "X" on the floor.  (Yes, seriously.  X marks the spot.)

Most importantly, make sure you that you are geeking out on the fun that this hobby brings into your life and the life of others you share with.  Make your daughter proud just as she does for you.

Again, congrats!

Keith
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