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Offline jerryfreak

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744T vs current options
« on: May 01, 2018, 07:19:51 PM »
i always wanted one of these, now that they are under a G i might pull the trigger

sound/spec wise did anything better ever really come along for our purposes. i remember when these came out they had favorable reviews with people claiming they approached the resolution of a V2/AD2K combo (gold standard IMO)

some of the random things im not using i could sell to consolidate toward this:
#1 pmd 661
#2 pmd 661 (oade mod)
littlebox
one of my tinyboxes
extra ad2k

good move for under a G or obsolete?

probably worth mentioning i dont have any bodies that require phantom (right now i have CMRs and NBOB actives>tinybox so this would purely a gearslut purchase with limited advantage over the AD2K>pmd 661 as a bit bucket. would be rare to "need" 4 channels but fun to have for the occasional matrix or something

« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 07:33:16 PM by jerryfreak »

Offline H₂O

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2018, 10:29:40 AM »
Total depends on what you are looking to do...


the new MixPre-6 and Zoom F4/F8 are pretty well liked and offer 4+ channels with preamps.


744t offers 4 channels of digital inputs which neither of the above recorders offer (neither have digital inputs) - 744t has only 2 channels of pre-amp though


The 702/722/744 have very transparent pre-amps which can sound harsh with certain mics IMO - they definitely do not have the slight warmth of the grace pre's which many of us prefer.

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Offline Gordon

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2018, 10:32:41 AM »
slight warmth of the grace pre's which many of us prefer.

can't say I've ever heard grace described as warm!  I loved my v3 don't get me wrong......

LOVE my mp6!
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Offline jbell

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2018, 05:23:14 PM »
I'd skip the 744t and get a Mixpre-6!!  Unless you really need the digi in. 
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Offline jcable77

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2018, 07:07:39 PM »
Ive been wanting one of these lately since watching the prices drop. Multiple digi in’s has been something id love to mess with for a while, but after a couple tries of running the minime into the digi in of my r44 and the v3 analog into 3+4 of the r44 im not sure id really be gaining all that much in quality. Im still in the mindset that most of these recorders conversion is subpar, but i think that may be something i need to grow out of. Of course the mp6 would be ideal if i didnt have to sell the v3 and mm’s to get it.
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Offline fanofjam

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2018, 02:56:11 PM »
i always wanted one of these, now that they are under a G i might pull the trigger

sound/spec wise did anything better ever really come along for our purposes. i remember when these came out they had favorable reviews with people claiming they approached the resolution of a V2/AD2K combo (gold standard IMO)

some of the random things im not using i could sell to consolidate toward this:
#1 pmd 661
#2 pmd 661 (oade mod)
littlebox
one of my tinyboxes
extra ad2k

good move for under a G or obsolete?

probably worth mentioning i dont have any bodies that require phantom (right now i have CMRs and NBOB actives>tinybox so this would purely a gearslut purchase with limited advantage over the AD2K>pmd 661 as a bit bucket. would be rare to "need" 4 channels but fun to have for the occasional matrix or something

Sound and spec wise, I think you'd be giving sound up if you went from AD2K > PMD-661 to 744. 

That said, even though they're being sold off for cheap, a 744 is far from obsolete.  The Zoom F8 started to drive the market price down for the 744, but then the MP6 really has driven it way down.  But IMO market price isn't necessarily a reflection of whether a piece of gear is obsolete...we're not talking 16bit DAT machines here.  The 744 still has a hella feature set.  That said, for me personally if the 744 is at the same price point as an MP6, I'm buying the MP6...it's smaller and has four internal pres that beat the 744 internal pres.  But if I needed the digi-ins or time-code I'd be all over the 744 at a grand.

Offline dactylus

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2018, 09:38:03 PM »
Has anyone done an actual comparison of the SD702 /722/744 pre's vs the new MixPre series?  Or the SD788 vs the new MixPre's?  I'd love to see a blind test comparison of the 7xx series vs the MixPre series.
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Offline florian.ardelean

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2018, 09:02:38 AM »
Newer is not always better. We live in a capitalist economy and new products reflect the wishes of the consumers. Most consumers nowadays want new features, better screens, light weight, smaller form factor. Since a good ear must be trained, most people can't tell the difference between a high-quality and a mediocre chain when it comes to audio recording.

Most consumers are music enthusiasts or podcasters, or videographers. The portable recorder market really took off with the advent of DSLR video. This is a market to which Zoom catered with a very good foresight 13 years ago when the original H4 made history, because its main competitor, the M-audio MicroTrack failed in many respects (internal battery and lack of internal microphones and XLR connections being the main culprits, in my opinion). At the time the only cheap alternative was the minidisc with many disadvantages. On the professional side there was the DAT, but much more expensive.

With that said, I bought a second-hand 744T three years ago and made a lot of money with it. Never serviced it once, even though the buttons don't work very well and the screen has some black lines. Recently when inquiring about servicing I found that this recorder was made in 2005. 13 years of use out of a 4000$ recorder is exceptional.

Sound Devices still offers the 702 recorder. And the 788 as well.

My advice: buy the 744T. Build quality is outstanding.

Fun fact: at a low-budget shoot I took a short bathroom break, and left the sound bag on the grass, with the entire team standing near it. A stray dog came by, sniffed the bag and... you guessed it... took a short bathroom break himself over my 744T. The crew quickly stopped him but a tad too late... in any case when I returned I turned it off of course and removed the battery. I used the backup recorder for the remainder of the shoot. When I got home, I opened it up, cleaned it out thoroughly, and let it to dry for 5-6 days in the sun. I put it back together and the screen was showing nothing... but when the 744T warmed up, the screen started to show again. After 2 weeks, when the screen dried out as well, it worked perfectly even when cold.

And it still works to this day.

Try that with a Zoom!
Recorders: SD 744T Tascam HDP2 Sony D50 Olympus LS100 Zoom H2 Tascam IM2
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Offline scb

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2018, 09:39:10 AM »

The 702/722/744 have very transparent pre-amps which can sound harsh with certain mics IMO - they definitely do not have the slight warmth of the grace pre's which many of us prefer.

The Grace preamps are definitely more transparent than the Sound Devices 7xx preamps

Offline dactylus

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2018, 09:43:15 AM »
Newer is not always better. We live in a capitalist economy and new products reflect the wishes of the consumers. Most consumers nowadays want new features, better screens, light weight, smaller form factor. Since a good ear must be trained, most people can't tell the difference between a high-quality and a mediocre chain when it comes to audio recording.

...My advice: buy the 744T. Build quality is outstanding...


^Thanks for your post.  I purchased a new SD722 in 2007-2008 and I've had ZERO issues with it since then.  I used it as recently as 3 weeks ago. 

I've wanted a 744T for years and when the prices started dropping on the 7xx series I picked up a used 744T in mint condition.  I don't regret that purchase one bit.  There are a number of used 744T's on the market now and if you are patient you can pick one up at an amazing price.  I do not consider the workhorse 7xx series machines to be obsolete. 

As several folks have already mentioned, if the choice is between a 744T and a new SD MixPre let your needs and budget be your guide...
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 09:49:44 AM by dactylus »
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Offline noahbickart

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2018, 03:23:43 PM »
I don’t know if I could hear the difference between the mixpre6 and 744t preamps, though the new ones measure better.

There are also 4 xlr inputs on the mixpre6 vs. the 2 on the 744t, along with two more line in inputs. It’s easier to power and much smaller. It uses modern recording media.

I’d buy the new deck unless you need digital in/out
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2018, 06:09:34 PM »
what a shame those new decks dont have at least 2 channels of digi in.

theres a 15% off coupon today on ebay, max $100 discount

the only 744T on there right now is a grand and ive seen the recent ones close in the 7s, so i can wait

i think ill buy a new dac instead.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 06:26:27 PM by jerryfreak »

Offline nak700s

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2018, 05:50:01 PM »
I've seen the mix-pre's in action, and have heard the results.  They seem like great machines, and certainly have their benefits.  That said, I love my 744T and wouldn't trade it for the world.  I use 4 tracks more than I use just 2, and I'm happy with it in every aspect. On occasion, I will make a 5 channel recording (using the 3 inputs on my pre (SD 302) and love it.  The only drawback, in my mind is the weight of the machine.  I can live with it.  My advise, hit up a taper friendly show and look, ask questions, learn the differences as they would apply to you, and make an educated choice based on your needs and desires.

Question for the mix-pre users:  On the 744T, when using the TRS line inputs, I can set my levels in the negatives when needed (eg. a hot line in from the SBD).  Are you able to do that on the mix pre's as well?  I would imagine they kept that feature, but figured I'd ask.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Fun times: 3 Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD744T + 2 Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD744T
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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2018, 06:40:54 PM »
Question for the mix-pre users:  On the 744T, when using the TRS line inputs, I can set my levels in the negatives when needed (eg. a hot line in from the SBD).  Are you able to do that on the mix pre's as well?  I would imagine they kept that feature, but figured I'd ask.
The range on inputs 5-6 of the MixPre6 (the 2.5mm stereo connector) is -40 dB to + 40 dB with firmware 2.20. Default is + 6 dB.

For the inputs 5-6 from USB source, the range is just as wide, but slightly different: -50 dB to + 30 dB
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Offline IronFilm

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2018, 02:02:47 AM »
Question for the mix-pre users:  On the 744T, when using the TRS line inputs, I can set my levels in the negatives when needed (eg. a hot line in from the SBD).  Are you able to do that on the mix pre's as well?  I would imagine they kept that feature, but figured I'd ask.
The range on inputs 5-6 of the MixPre6 (the 2.5mm stereo connector) is -40 dB to + 40 dB with firmware 2.20. Default is + 6 dB.

A useful point to note is you lose inputs 5/6 if using an external TC generator.

Offline nak700s

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2018, 01:41:11 PM »
Question for the mix-pre users:  On the 744T, when using the TRS line inputs, I can set my levels in the negatives when needed (eg. a hot line in from the SBD).  Are you able to do that on the mix pre's as well?  I would imagine they kept that feature, but figured I'd ask.
The range on inputs 5-6 of the MixPre6 (the 2.5mm stereo connector) is -40 dB to + 40 dB with firmware 2.20. Default is + 6 dB.

A useful point to note is you lose inputs 5/6 if using an external TC generator.

It was just a question out of curiosity.  I'm very happy with my 744T and have no intention of buying a MixPre...  Thank you for the answers :-)
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Fun times: 3 Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD744T + 2 Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
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Offline dointhatrag

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2018, 11:35:55 AM »
the functionality of the 7 series is second to none. Prices are coming down. Buy them up. In the past I used them for line in or digi in. with either sonosax or apogee in front. Never liked the pre's but like I said the functionality is amazing. Bullet proof and lots of pretty lights.
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Offline tim in jersey

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2018, 09:08:19 AM »
Holding on to my 744t. I'm increasingly getting digital outs from the SBD as opposed to analog...

Offline Charlie Miller

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2018, 11:40:22 AM »
I'd skip the 744t and get a Mixpre-6!!  Unless you really need the digi in. 

There’s a heck of a lot more than just the digital in. The mix-pre is an excellent unit but not close to the 744 due to options.
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Offline jbell

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2018, 03:59:07 PM »
I would disagree.  Gordon and I compared ours to a friend's 788t and the touch screen alone makes it a better device for field recording not to mention Bluetooth.  The options I need for recording are built into the mixpre-6 with A LOT more extra features I don't need.  It also has 4 preamps versus the 2 on the 744.  There is a reason the 744 is selling cheap on ebay.  Again just my opinion.

I'd skip the 744t and get a Mixpre-6!!  Unless you really need the digi in. 

There’s a heck of a lot more than just the digital in. The mix-pre is an excellent unit but not close to the 744 due to options.
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline Charlie Miller

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2018, 11:51:21 AM »
I would disagree.  Gordon and I compared ours to a friend's 788t and the touch screen alone makes it a better device for field recording not to mention Bluetooth.  The options I need for recording are built into the mixpre-6 with A LOT more extra features I don't need.  It also has 4 preamps versus the 2 on the 744.  There is a reason the 744 is selling cheap on ebay.  Again just my opinion.

I'd skip the 744t and get a Mixpre-6!!  Unless you really need the digi in. 

There’s a heck of a lot more than just the digital in. The mix-pre is an excellent unit but not close to the 744 due to options.

Obviously you have different needs from a recorder than I do because I sound not be able to use the mixpre due to lack of features. Agreed the touch screen is cool but has nothing to do with anything I need. The touch screen is also the last thing that would get me to buy a recorder.
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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2018, 12:33:00 PM »
I would like to see a Comp done between the 744 and the MixPre-6.  Use the exact same mics and power supplies.  Can anyone do that?  Pm Me.

I just did a recent Comp:  SD 302/Sony M10 combo and the MixPre-6.  The power supplies were Tekkeon MP3300's.  Mics were Nakamichi CM-1000 CP-101 (Sank P48).  I own two pair of these modded Naks.

So it can be done.

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2018, 04:33:01 PM »
I would like to see a Comp done between the 744 and the MixPre-6.  Use the exact same mics and power supplies.  Can anyone do that?  Pm Me.

I just did a recent Comp:  SD 302/Sony M10 combo and the MixPre-6.  The power supplies were Tekkeon MP3300's.  Mics were Nakamichi CM-1000 CP-101 (Sank P48).  I own two pair of these modded Naks.

So it can be done.

I think there's a few phish tapers that have both 7xx and mixpre
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Offline jbell

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2018, 04:38:05 PM »
For field recording what features does the 744t have that the Mixpre-6 doesn't and makes it a better device for concert taping??  A lot of tapers have sold their 744's for Mixpre-6 recorders.  I've never owned a 744 so curious to hear about all the features that would make it a better device.  From checking a friends 788t it seems to have a similar feature set and I could not see any features for concert recording it has that the Mixpre-6 doesn't also have with the exception the 788T has 8 channels of preamps.   

I would disagree.  Gordon and I compared ours to a friend's 788t and the touch screen alone makes it a better device for field recording not to mention Bluetooth.  The options I need for recording are built into the mixpre-6 with A LOT more extra features I don't need.  It also has 4 preamps versus the 2 on the 744.  There is a reason the 744 is selling cheap on ebay.  Again just my opinion.

I'd skip the 744t and get a Mixpre-6!!  Unless you really need the digi in. 

There’s a heck of a lot more than just the digital in. The mix-pre is an excellent unit but not close to the 744 due to options.

Obviously you have different needs from a recorder than I do because I sound not be able to use the mixpre due to lack of features. Agreed the touch screen is cool but has nothing to do with anything I need. The touch screen is also the last thing that would get me to buy a recorder.
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline old and in the way

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2018, 03:38:38 PM »
both the 744 and the mixpre series are great deck. i own a 788t and a 744t and a mixpre three. the pres on the 788t are in my opinion the best, then the mixpre 3 and then the 744t. the 744t and the 788t are tanks . the mixpre series are no where as robust a build . the mix pre has a smaller foot print and i use the three because of the size a lot .I have a few preamps that have aes so the 744t is used in certain places and i'd have to say with great results. When its wide open taping though the 788t is my go to deck.My moto is one can never have enough gear . i'm a hoarder of decks and mics but i find that they all serve there purpose.

Offline noahbickart

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2018, 08:33:02 AM »
I own a SD Mixpre6, and believe that it is superior to the 744 for my needs, for the following reasons:

1. Price.
A new Mixpre6 sells for less than a used 744.

2. Inputs.
Whereas the 744 has only 2 mixc pres on xlr, the mixpre6 has 4.
Whereas the 744 has 4 total channels (2 x Mic/line, 2 x line only) the mixpre6 has 6 (4 x Mic/line, 2 x line only). Those extra inputs are really helpful. Even if you don't have a 3rd pair or microphones, you can use that extra pair for a SBD patch or a line out of another Taper's gear.

3. Powering options.
The Mixpre can be run from a large capacity usb-c battery, internal AA batteries, & sony L type, whereas the 744 has only a hirose and L type. The bug usb-c battery runs the mixpre6 for over 18 hours and is smaller and lighter than any of the hirose solutions. A RA>RA USB-C cable makes the thing sit in the bag so well and is secure enough that I no longer run any kind of backup.

4. Size.
The Mixpre is much smaller than the 744. It's smaller than most small preamps tapers use, this means it fits in a much wider variety of bags, and is even  >:D friendly in a way a 744 isn't.

5. Wingman app
When I clamp- I love setting up my rig, closing the bag, dancing a few feet away, and starting and stopping (and monitoring levels of) the recording on my phone.

The only reason feature the 744 has over the Mixpre6 is its digital input. But If you're running an external AD converter and using the 744 as a bit bucket, you're not using any of the other fancy features of the 744.

The specs on the Mixpre6 are "better" than those of the 744, but I don't believe that you'd be able to hear the difference in a real world scenario.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 08:35:25 AM by noahbickart »
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline jbell

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2018, 04:21:34 PM »
This was my earlier point.  I cannot find any evidence that the 744t has better features than the Mixpre-6!!!  To add to what Noah stated the firewire and CF cards would be a PITA for me.  The only advantage I see is digital input, which I wouldn't need. 

I own a SD Mixpre6, and believe that it is superior to the 744 for my needs, for the following reasons:

1. Price.
A new Mixpre6 sells for less than a used 744.

2. Inputs.
Whereas the 744 has only 2 mixc pres on xlr, the mixpre6 has 4.
Whereas the 744 has 4 total channels (2 x Mic/line, 2 x line only) the mixpre6 has 6 (4 x Mic/line, 2 x line only). Those extra inputs are really helpful. Even if you don't have a 3rd pair or microphones, you can use that extra pair for a SBD patch or a line out of another Taper's gear.

3. Powering options.
The Mixpre can be run from a large capacity usb-c battery, internal AA batteries, & sony L type, whereas the 744 has only a hirose and L type. The bug usb-c battery runs the mixpre6 for over 18 hours and is smaller and lighter than any of the hirose solutions. A RA>RA USB-C cable makes the thing sit in the bag so well and is secure enough that I no longer run any kind of backup.

4. Size.
The Mixpre is much smaller than the 744. It's smaller than most small preamps tapers use, this means it fits in a much wider variety of bags, and is even  >:D friendly in a way a 744 isn't.

5. Wingman app
When I clamp- I love setting up my rig, closing the bag, dancing a few feet away, and starting and stopping (and monitoring levels of) the recording on my phone.

The only reason feature the 744 has over the Mixpre6 is its digital input. But If you're running an external AD converter and using the 744 as a bit bucket, you're not using any of the other fancy features of the 744.

The specs on the Mixpre6 are "better" than those of the 744, but I don't believe that you'd be able to hear the difference in a real world scenario.
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline spyder9

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2018, 11:33:45 AM »
I own a SD Mixpre6, and believe that it is superior to the 744 for my needs, for the following reasons:

1. Price.
A new Mixpre6 sells for less than a used 744.

2. Inputs.
Whereas the 744 has only 2 mixc pres on xlr, the mixpre6 has 4.
Whereas the 744 has 4 total channels (2 x Mic/line, 2 x line only) the mixpre6 has 6 (4 x Mic/line, 2 x line only). Those extra inputs are really helpful. Even if you don't have a 3rd pair or microphones, you can use that extra pair for a SBD patch or a line out of another Taper's gear.

3. Powering options.
The Mixpre can be run from a large capacity usb-c battery, internal AA batteries, & sony L type, whereas the 744 has only a hirose and L type. The bug usb-c battery runs the mixpre6 for over 18 hours and is smaller and lighter than any of the hirose solutions. A RA>RA USB-C cable makes the thing sit in the bag so well and is secure enough that I no longer run any kind of backup.

4. Size.
The Mixpre is much smaller than the 744. It's smaller than most small preamps tapers use, this means it fits in a much wider variety of bags, and is even  >:D friendly in a way a 744 isn't.

5. Wingman app
When I clamp- I love setting up my rig, closing the bag, dancing a few feet away, and starting and stopping (and monitoring levels of) the recording on my phone.

The only reason feature the 744 has over the Mixpre6 is its digital input. But If you're running an external AD converter and using the 744 as a bit bucket, you're not using any of the other fancy features of the 744.

The specs on the Mixpre6 are "better" than those of the 744, but I don't believe that you'd be able to hear the difference in a real world scenario.

6.  Sound?

Offline rippleish20

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2018, 11:45:10 AM »
I am in the I would buy a mixpre-* at this point camp, but the 744 has other nice features -  time code and you can link decks together.
Schoeps CMC6 (MK22's, MK41's) / AKG C480B (ck61, ck63, ck8) / Telefunken M60 (TK61, TK63) - for sale / DPA (4061)
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Offline Charlie Miller

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2018, 07:40:39 PM »
The 744 has so many clock options that the mixpre doesn't have. How many fps options are on the mixpre? Can you assign multiple mixes for output on the mixpre? That's a deal-breaker for me. Gotta be able to do at least two.
Audio Tech - Steve Kimock Productions, Louisiana Love Act

Schoeps CMC6/MK4
(4) AKG 460's (CK8's, CK63's and CK1's)
Lunatec V2  & Lunatec V3
Sound Devices 744T

Offline noahbickart

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2018, 07:58:45 PM »
Can you assign multiple mixes for output on the mixpre? That's a deal-breaker for me. Gotta be able to do at least two.

Yes. One mix on line out. And a 2nd on the headphone out.

Each is any combo of any of the 6 inputs and/or the mix track.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline Charlie Miller

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2018, 01:44:10 PM »
Can you assign multiple mixes for output on the mixpre? That's a deal-breaker for me. Gotta be able to do at least two.

Yes. One mix on line out. And a 2nd on the headphone out.

Each is any combo of any of the 6 inputs and/or the mix track.

That's cool but I use my headphone out for monitoring. I think the mixpre series are great units and were needed since a lot of people were priced out of the 7xx's.
Audio Tech - Steve Kimock Productions, Louisiana Love Act

Schoeps CMC6/MK4
(4) AKG 460's (CK8's, CK63's and CK1's)
Lunatec V2  & Lunatec V3
Sound Devices 744T

Offline noahbickart

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2018, 02:32:52 PM »
Can you assign multiple mixes for output on the mixpre? That's a deal-breaker for me. Gotta be able to do at least two.

Yes. One mix on line out. And a 2nd on the headphone out.

Each is any combo of any of the 6 inputs and/or the mix track.

That's cool but I use my headphone out for monitoring. I think the mixpre series are great units and were needed since a lot of people were priced out of the 7xx's.

Charlie:

It does indeed sound like the 744t suits your needs better than the mixpre6 would.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline IronFilm

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2018, 03:20:23 AM »

3. Powering options.
The Mixpre can be run from a large capacity usb-c battery, internal AA batteries, & sony L type, whereas the 744 has only a hirose and L type. The bug usb-c battery runs the mixpre6 for over 18 hours and is smaller and lighter than any of the hirose solutions. A RA>RA USB-C cable makes the thing sit in the bag so well and is secure enough that I no longer run any kind of backup.


For some field recordists the dodgy consumer USB power as the only external powering if a very unprofessional strike against the MixPre.

And one of the many reasons I prefer the Zoom F series instead.

Offline junkyardt

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2018, 12:58:45 PM »

For some field recordists the dodgy consumer USB power as the only external powering if a very unprofessional strike against the MixPre.

And one of the many reasons I prefer the Zoom F series instead.

dude what are you even talking about? at this point i think we all understand that you are a basically an undercover Zoom employee, but there is no need to be spreading misinformation about other brands of recorders. USB as the only external powering option for the mixpre? as outlined in the link below, there are a plethora of powering options, including AAs, L-mount, USB-C batteries, Hirose, etc. also what exactly about USB power do you consider “dodgy”?

https://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/mixpre-3-mixpre-6-powering-options

Offline nak700s

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2018, 01:48:21 PM »

3. Powering options.
The Mixpre can be run from a large capacity usb-c battery, internal AA batteries, & sony L type, whereas the 744 has only a hirose and L type. The bug usb-c battery runs the mixpre6 for over 18 hours and is smaller and lighter than any of the hirose solutions. A RA>RA USB-C cable makes the thing sit in the bag so well and is secure enough that I no longer run any kind of backup.


For some field recordists the dodgy consumer USB power as the only external powering if a very unprofessional strike against the MixPre.

And one of the many reasons I prefer the Zoom F series instead.


What the fuck are you talking about?  Calling anything about a Sound Devices recorder or pre-amp unprofessional, compared to anything that Zoom puts out is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life!  Sound Devices is the epitome of professional recording equipment...as opposed to Zoom, which is anything but. Seriously dude, if you're going to try and sell your toys, you should really set your sights on a much, much lower target to compete with.

As for external batteries, at least for the 744T, I can attest to them being a perfect way to power a deck.  I use a 32,000 USB > Hirose that will power it for an entire festival at 12V with power to spare, and have the regular batteries that slide on just as back-up.  There are other options as well, and I believe that the same options are available for both the 744T and the MixPre's.  Whoever is interested in correct information regarding the original question in this post needs to listen to the people that own and use the machines they are interested in, not garbage from someone trying to sell their crap.  Rant over  :smash:
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Fun times: 3 Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD744T + 2 Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline IronFilm

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2018, 05:57:18 AM »

For some field recordists the dodgy consumer USB power as the only external powering if a very unprofessional strike against the MixPre.

And one of the many reasons I prefer the Zoom F series instead.

dude what are you even talking about? at this point i think we all understand that you are a basically an undercover Zoom employee, but there is no need to be spreading misinformation about other brands of recorders. USB as the only external powering option for the mixpre? as outlined in the link below, there are a plethora of powering options, including AAs, L-mount, USB-C batteries, Hirose, etc. also what exactly about USB power do you consider “dodgy”?

https://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/mixpre-3-mixpre-6-powering-options

Am certainly not employed by Zoom! Or sponsored by them in any way. Just someone who has used all their F series field recorders (and also their H series....  but UGH! Nope, not in the same league). Not just used them, but used them very extensively on many feature films, web series (just last weekend I maxed out the F8n with boom & seven wireless, and the week before too), and countless many other projects too.

Perhaps I should've have clarified my point: You can't have internal and external powering except via a flimsy USB connection.

Completely defeats the entire point of having redundant power sources if you lose one power source if you're using hirose!

(the MixPre10T being the one exception, but it is at a price much higher than the other MixPre series, so it makes you start to wonder why stop at a 10T? Just go the whole hog and get a 633! And even the MixPre10T still has oddities like that bizarrely placed hirose connector, and not to mention the menu encoder / headphone dial as well!)

Back when I wrote my comment the MixPre series had other big deal breaker flaws as well, such as no pre-roll. Now fixed in the firmware that came out today, but other issues still remain such as a sound report can't be generated from the wingman app (again, except the MixPre10T, the only one I'd consider)


Offline IronFilm

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2018, 06:07:36 AM »
What the fuck are you talking about?  Calling anything about a Sound Devices recorder or pre-amp unprofessional, compared to anything that Zoom puts out is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life!  Sound Devices is the epitome of professional recording equipment...as opposed to Zoom, which is anything but. Seriously dude, if you're going to try and sell your toys, you should really set your sights on a much, much lower target to compete with.

I'm not saying the MixPre series never ever can be used on professional shoots. Of course not, I know plenty of people who do. I might even consider one myself if I saw one pop up at an irresistible price to play around with.

Just wanted to point out that Sound Devices MixPre series has just has many flaws / negatives / deal breakers as the Zoom F series has, if not even more! (certainly in my eyes it is more, & why I didn't choose one)

Whoever is interested in correct information regarding the original question in this post needs to listen to the people that own and use the machines they are interested in, not garbage from someone trying to sell their crap.  Rant over  :smash:

I am *NOT* trying to sell anything. Have nothing of mine that I wish to sell now. Neither do I work for any product company but myself as a freelance sound crew person on shoots.

And I do use (unlike most people in this thread it seems) almost daily a Zoom F series recorder in my work, and have so for a couple of years now. And I also own several Sound Devices products as well (in fact a Sound Devices recorder was my usual recorder before I stepped up by upgrading my kit to a Zoom F4)

If people have used a Zoom H4n or whatever years ago in their past or only lightly played around with an F8 for a few minutes in a shop when it was first released, then they are doing a great disservice to themselves and the wider forum community to be writing off Zoom's F series as rubbish, and they'd be better off chucking out all their preconceived notions they formed about Zoom years ago. As their new F series is so different from their past work that it almost might as well be from a different company!



Offline rippleish20

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2018, 01:04:33 PM »
Some of the responses to IronFilms comment seem way over the top.  No, USB-c is not the only way to externally power the Mixpre-3/6 but why is it hard to be adult and simply point out he is wrong. 

The Zoom F4 and F8 are great devices in my opinion. Yes Zoom is a consumer company but they are starting to move into the prosumer world and the F series are nice. The release of these device has seemingly brought in some competition to SD. SD deserves its reputation for high quality equipment and support, but the Mixpre-x's to me are a move down into prosumer and my view is that they did make some odd choices with them. While there are many methods to externally power a Mixpre-3/6, and IronFilm was wrong, USB-C does seem to me to be an odd choice and is really a prosumer strategy.

Schoeps CMC6 (MK22's, MK41's) / AKG C480B (ck61, ck63, ck8) / Telefunken M60 (TK61, TK63) - for sale / DPA (4061)
KCY 250/5 and 250/0 > naiant PFA or IPA or Nbox 
Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Mixpre-3 /Sony M-10 / Roland R-07 /Tascam DR-100mkIII / d:vice

Offline IronFilm

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2018, 10:36:24 PM »
Some of the responses to IronFilms comment seem way over the top.  No, USB-c is not the only way to externally power the Mixpre-3/6 but why is it hard to be adult and simply point out he is wrong. 

The Zoom F4 and F8 are great devices in my opinion. Yes Zoom is a consumer company but they are starting to move into the prosumer world and the F series are nice. The release of these device has seemingly brought in some competition to SD. SD deserves its reputation for high quality equipment and support, but the Mixpre-x's to me are a move down into prosumer and my view is that they did make some odd choices with them. While there are many methods to externally power a Mixpre-3/6, and IronFilm was wrong, USB-C does seem to me to be an odd choice and is really a prosumer strategy.

I'll repeat my point again:
The MixPre3/6 can not be powered both internally and externally at once except using the USB consumer standard.

Please show a step up which proves I'm wrong? As I've never seen any other way to do this. I'd actually like to know, as I see this as a drawback for the MixPre6 and was one of several reasons why I didn't buy it vs a F8n. (other issues are even more serious like limited to 4 channels with TC, and other issues have been resolved finally with a firmware update such as ambisonics/pre-roll/control panel but none of these were possible at all back when I purchased my F8n)

Offline nak700s

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2018, 01:44:37 PM »
What the fuck are you talking about?  Calling anything about a Sound Devices recorder or pre-amp unprofessional, compared to anything that Zoom puts out is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life!  Sound Devices is the epitome of professional recording equipment...as opposed to Zoom, which is anything but. Seriously dude, if you're going to try and sell your toys, you should really set your sights on a much, much lower target to compete with.

I'm not saying the MixPre series never ever can be used on professional shoots. Of course not, I know plenty of people who do. I might even consider one myself if I saw one pop up at an irresistible price to play around with.

Just wanted to point out that Sound Devices MixPre series has just has many flaws / negatives / deal breakers as the Zoom F series has, if not even more! (certainly in my eyes it is more, & why I didn't choose one)

Whoever is interested in correct information regarding the original question in this post needs to listen to the people that own and use the machines they are interested in, not garbage from someone trying to sell their crap.  Rant over  :smash:

I am *NOT* trying to sell anything. Have nothing of mine that I wish to sell now. Neither do I work for any product company but myself as a freelance sound crew person on shoots.

And I do use (unlike most people in this thread it seems) almost daily a Zoom F series recorder in my work, and have so for a couple of years now. And I also own several Sound Devices products as well (in fact a Sound Devices recorder was my usual recorder before I stepped up by upgrading my kit to a Zoom F4)

If people have used a Zoom H4n or whatever years ago in their past or only lightly played around with an F8 for a few minutes in a shop when it was first released, then they are doing a great disservice to themselves and the wider forum community to be writing off Zoom's F series as rubbish, and they'd be better off chucking out all their preconceived notions they formed about Zoom years ago. As their new F series is so different from their past work that it almost might as well be from a different company!


"I'm not saying the MixPre series never ever can be used on professional shoots."
Sound Devices IS used in the most professional sense that you can possibly imagine!  Yes, THE most.  They are used in the film industry.  When you see those behind the scenes shots of the sound guys micing the actors, with booms, and other techniques, that IS what's in their bags.  A good friend of mine works in that industry and does just that.  He couldn't wait to tell me, someone who uses them for live audio recording, about the MixPre 6 when it came out because he often used that as opposed to the 788T and 744T he was using before that.  These recorders are used for TV, movies, commercials, etc.. They do not use Zoom anything for anything.  Somehow, I don't think that's a coincidence, I think it's by design.

Certainly, you can be very happy with your Zoom equipment, which is terrific, and I'm glad you are, but more than likely, a happy Sound Devices user isn't going to take a step down to something inferior unless they need the money for their unit knowing they can buy a new Zoom F8 for a fraction of the cost.  I can't imagine what Sound Devices equipment you were using that you considered a Zoom an upgrade, but I'm guessing it may have been due for a little maintenance or something I'm unfamiliar with.  Being happy with your equipment and the recordings you make with it is all that matters.  Using it should be a pleasurable experience.  You are obviously happy with you Zoom, and again, that's all that matters.

Just to sight an example of a discussion I was having yesterday with a friend: We were talking about turntables, and he had said that his Denon was the best.  I quietly laughed to myself, knowing how wrong he was.  To each their own, he is happy and that is all that matters.

Isn't a new Zoom F8 around $1000.00 (I think less, but without looking it up I figured on the high side)?  A new Sound Devices 744T, is over $4300.00...ever hear the expression, "You get what you pay for"?  Yeah, it's true.  Another is, "There's a sucker born every minute"...but considering the applications the Sound Devices are used for...I'm thinking that one doesn't apply here  ;)

BTW, I really don't mean to go all crazy on you about this, but the original post, if I'm not mistaken, was asking about a 744T compared to others...and since that's what I normally use, I take it to heart (like yourself).

::: peace :::
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Fun times: 3 Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD744T + 2 Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline rippleish20

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2018, 02:08:54 PM »
Some of the responses to IronFilms comment seem way over the top.  No, USB-c is not the only way to externally power the Mixpre-3/6 but why is it hard to be adult and simply point out he is wrong. 

The Zoom F4 and F8 are great devices in my opinion. Yes Zoom is a consumer company but they are starting to move into the prosumer world and the F series are nice. The release of these device has seemingly brought in some competition to SD. SD deserves its reputation for high quality equipment and support, but the Mixpre-x's to me are a move down into prosumer and my view is that they did make some odd choices with them. While there are many methods to externally power a Mixpre-3/6, and IronFilm was wrong, USB-C does seem to me to be an odd choice and is really a prosumer strategy.


I'll repeat my point again:
The MixPre3/6 can not be powered both internally and externally at once except using the USB consumer standard.

Please show a step up which proves I'm wrong? As I've never seen any other way to do this. I'd actually like to know, as I see this as a drawback for the MixPre6 and was one of several reasons why I didn't buy it vs a F8n. (other issues are even more serious like limited to 4 channels with TC, and other issues have been resolved finally with a firmware update such as ambisonics/pre-roll/control panel but none of these were possible at all back when I purchased my F8n)

Oye.

You said in the post I responded to "For some field recordists the dodgy consumer USB power as the only external powering if a very unprofessional strike against the MixPre. ". Nothing in that statement says anything about internal and external.  I viewed it as complaining about using USB-c for external powering, which I agree with. There are several methods a for external powering like the Hirose sled from Cable Creations and the one from Hawk Woods. I also have a "fake battery sled" from Hawk Woods that goes in the L-Mount battery sled. It has a 12v DC power connector. You can run one LMount battery in conjunction with an external 12v battery for redundancy. If the Lmount battery runs out, you can hot swap in another one....

Schoeps CMC6 (MK22's, MK41's) / AKG C480B (ck61, ck63, ck8) / Telefunken M60 (TK61, TK63) - for sale / DPA (4061)
KCY 250/5 and 250/0 > naiant PFA or IPA or Nbox 
Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Mixpre-3 /Sony M-10 / Roland R-07 /Tascam DR-100mkIII / d:vice

Offline yug du nord

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2018, 10:33:58 AM »
Quote from: nak700s
Isn't a new Zoom F8 around $1000.00 (I think less, but without looking it up I figured on the high side)?  A new Sound Devices 744T, is over $4300.00...ever hear the expression, "You get what you pay for"?  Yeah, it's true.  Another is, "There's a sucker born every minute"...but considering the applications the Sound Devices are used for...I'm thinking that one doesn't apply here  ;)

Off topic...  but speaks loudly of the current culture in America. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/business/2018/11/30/they-had-us-fooled-inside-paylesss-elaborate-prank-dupe-people-into-paying-shoes/

I've never used a Zoom product..  and am a firm believer in SD products....  but many products can make great recordings..  it just comes down to using a product that you can trust that has the features you need/want.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 10:39:09 AM by yug du nord »
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline dactylus

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2018, 11:24:19 AM »
Some of the responses to IronFilms comment seem way over the top.  No, USB-c is not the only way to externally power the Mixpre-3/6 but why is it hard to be adult and simply point out he is wrong. 

The Zoom F4 and F8 are great devices in my opinion. Yes Zoom is a consumer company but they are starting to move into the prosumer world and the F series are nice. The release of these device has seemingly brought in some competition to SD. SD deserves its reputation for high quality equipment and support, but the Mixpre-x's to me are a move down into prosumer and my view is that they did make some odd choices with them. While there are many methods to externally power a Mixpre-3/6, and IronFilm was wrong, USB-C does seem to me to be an odd choice and is really a prosumer strategy.

I'll repeat my point again:
The MixPre3/6 can not be powered both internally and externally at once except using the USB consumer standard.


Please show a step up which proves I'm wrong? As I've never seen any other way to do this. I'd actually like to know, as I see this as a drawback for the MixPre6 and was one of several reasons why I didn't buy it vs a F8n. (other issues are even more serious like limited to 4 channels with TC, and other issues have been resolved finally with a firmware update such as ambisonics/pre-roll/control panel but none of these were possible at all back when I purchased my F8n)

^
Not true

http://www.hawkwoods.co.uk/Prods/Product/LR-08
or
http://www.hawkwoods.co.uk/Prods/Product/LR-06

Occupying one side of this Sound Devices mount:  https://www.sounddevices.com/products/accessories/power-accessories/mx-lmount

And one Sony® L-type battery occupying slot 2 of the Sound Devices mount

So, one Sony® L-type battery + one of the above listed Hawk-Woods options, both mounted in the SD MX-LMount  =  internal and external powering without using the USB option


hot licks > microphones > recorder



...ball of confusion, that's what the world is today, hey hey...

Offline noahbickart

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2018, 11:39:29 AM »
I still don't understand the issue. A usb-c connection used for power is no better or worse than any other non locking dc connector. When used with right angle usb-c cables, this connection is plenty secure for any normal use.

If you need a locking connector, there are lots of ways to use a hirose cable with this unit.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
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Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

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Offline rippleish20

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2018, 11:43:25 AM »
I'll repeat my point again:
The MixPre3/6 can not be powered both internally and externally at once except using the USB consumer standard.


^
Not true

http://www.hawkwoods.co.uk/Prods/Product/LR-08
or
http://www.hawkwoods.co.uk/Prods/Product/LR-06

Occupying one side of this Sound Devices mount:  https://www.sounddevices.com/products/accessories/power-accessories/mx-lmount

And one Sony® L-type battery occupying slot 2 of the Sound Devices mount

So, one Sony® L-type battery + one of the above listed Hawk-Woods options, both mounted in the SD MX-LMount  =  internal and external powering without using the USB option

A customized version of the LR-06 is what I am using and a combination of the lmount sled and it allows for "internal and external powering without using the USB option" as I described unless you are defining "internal" as the AA battery sled

Schoeps CMC6 (MK22's, MK41's) / AKG C480B (ck61, ck63, ck8) / Telefunken M60 (TK61, TK63) - for sale / DPA (4061)
KCY 250/5 and 250/0 > naiant PFA or IPA or Nbox 
Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Mixpre-3 /Sony M-10 / Roland R-07 /Tascam DR-100mkIII / d:vice

Offline tim in jersey

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2018, 01:09:36 PM »
Chiming in late, as usual.

Love the 744t meters. Easy to power. If you can't figure out power, well you suck at taping.

That being said, the MP-6 is my next go-to. The MP6 will be be my new  4 track toy if they ever get the firmware right.


Offline jbell

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2018, 04:20:05 PM »
Haven't had an issue with 2.21

Chiming in late, as usual.

Love the 744t meters. Easy to power. If you can't figure out power, well you suck at taping.

That being said, the MP-6 is my next go-to. The MP6 will be be my new  4 track toy if they ever get the firmware right.
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

 

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