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Author Topic: 744T vs current options  (Read 8522 times)

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Offline noahbickart

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2018, 07:58:45 PM »
Can you assign multiple mixes for output on the mixpre? That's a deal-breaker for me. Gotta be able to do at least two.

Yes. One mix on line out. And a 2nd on the headphone out.

Each is any combo of any of the 6 inputs and/or the mix track.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline Charlie Miller

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2018, 01:44:10 PM »
Can you assign multiple mixes for output on the mixpre? That's a deal-breaker for me. Gotta be able to do at least two.

Yes. One mix on line out. And a 2nd on the headphone out.

Each is any combo of any of the 6 inputs and/or the mix track.

That's cool but I use my headphone out for monitoring. I think the mixpre series are great units and were needed since a lot of people were priced out of the 7xx's.
Audio Engineer - Steve Kimock Productions

Schoeps CMC6/MK4
(4) AKG 460's (CK8's, CK63's and CK1's)
Lunatec V2  & Lunatec V3
Sound Devices 744T

Offline noahbickart

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2018, 02:32:52 PM »
Can you assign multiple mixes for output on the mixpre? That's a deal-breaker for me. Gotta be able to do at least two.

Yes. One mix on line out. And a 2nd on the headphone out.

Each is any combo of any of the 6 inputs and/or the mix track.

That's cool but I use my headphone out for monitoring. I think the mixpre series are great units and were needed since a lot of people were priced out of the 7xx's.

Charlie:

It does indeed sound like the 744t suits your needs better than the mixpre6 would.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline IronFilm

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2018, 03:20:23 AM »

3. Powering options.
The Mixpre can be run from a large capacity usb-c battery, internal AA batteries, & sony L type, whereas the 744 has only a hirose and L type. The bug usb-c battery runs the mixpre6 for over 18 hours and is smaller and lighter than any of the hirose solutions. A RA>RA USB-C cable makes the thing sit in the bag so well and is secure enough that I no longer run any kind of backup.


For some field recordists the dodgy consumer USB power as the only external powering if a very unprofessional strike against the MixPre.

And one of the many reasons I prefer the Zoom F series instead.

Offline junkyardt

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2018, 12:58:45 PM »

For some field recordists the dodgy consumer USB power as the only external powering if a very unprofessional strike against the MixPre.

And one of the many reasons I prefer the Zoom F series instead.

dude what are you even talking about? at this point i think we all understand that you are a basically an undercover Zoom employee, but there is no need to be spreading misinformation about other brands of recorders. USB as the only external powering option for the mixpre? as outlined in the link below, there are a plethora of powering options, including AAs, L-mount, USB-C batteries, Hirose, etc. also what exactly about USB power do you consider “dodgy”?

https://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/mixpre-3-mixpre-6-powering-options

Offline nak700s

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2018, 01:48:21 PM »

3. Powering options.
The Mixpre can be run from a large capacity usb-c battery, internal AA batteries, & sony L type, whereas the 744 has only a hirose and L type. The bug usb-c battery runs the mixpre6 for over 18 hours and is smaller and lighter than any of the hirose solutions. A RA>RA USB-C cable makes the thing sit in the bag so well and is secure enough that I no longer run any kind of backup.


For some field recordists the dodgy consumer USB power as the only external powering if a very unprofessional strike against the MixPre.

And one of the many reasons I prefer the Zoom F series instead.


What the fuck are you talking about?  Calling anything about a Sound Devices recorder or pre-amp unprofessional, compared to anything that Zoom puts out is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life!  Sound Devices is the epitome of professional recording equipment...as opposed to Zoom, which is anything but. Seriously dude, if you're going to try and sell your toys, you should really set your sights on a much, much lower target to compete with.

As for external batteries, at least for the 744T, I can attest to them being a perfect way to power a deck.  I use a 32,000 USB > Hirose that will power it for an entire festival at 12V with power to spare, and have the regular batteries that slide on just as back-up.  There are other options as well, and I believe that the same options are available for both the 744T and the MixPre's.  Whoever is interested in correct information regarding the original question in this post needs to listen to the people that own and use the machines they are interested in, not garbage from someone trying to sell their crap.  Rant over  :smash:
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Fun times: 3 Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD744T + 2 Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline IronFilm

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2018, 05:57:18 AM »

For some field recordists the dodgy consumer USB power as the only external powering if a very unprofessional strike against the MixPre.

And one of the many reasons I prefer the Zoom F series instead.

dude what are you even talking about? at this point i think we all understand that you are a basically an undercover Zoom employee, but there is no need to be spreading misinformation about other brands of recorders. USB as the only external powering option for the mixpre? as outlined in the link below, there are a plethora of powering options, including AAs, L-mount, USB-C batteries, Hirose, etc. also what exactly about USB power do you consider “dodgy”?

https://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/mixpre-3-mixpre-6-powering-options

Am certainly not employed by Zoom! Or sponsored by them in any way. Just someone who has used all their F series field recorders (and also their H series....  but UGH! Nope, not in the same league). Not just used them, but used them very extensively on many feature films, web series (just last weekend I maxed out the F8n with boom & seven wireless, and the week before too), and countless many other projects too.

Perhaps I should've have clarified my point: You can't have internal and external powering except via a flimsy USB connection.

Completely defeats the entire point of having redundant power sources if you lose one power source if you're using hirose!

(the MixPre10T being the one exception, but it is at a price much higher than the other MixPre series, so it makes you start to wonder why stop at a 10T? Just go the whole hog and get a 633! And even the MixPre10T still has oddities like that bizarrely placed hirose connector, and not to mention the menu encoder / headphone dial as well!)

Back when I wrote my comment the MixPre series had other big deal breaker flaws as well, such as no pre-roll. Now fixed in the firmware that came out today, but other issues still remain such as a sound report can't be generated from the wingman app (again, except the MixPre10T, the only one I'd consider)


Offline IronFilm

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2018, 06:07:36 AM »
What the fuck are you talking about?  Calling anything about a Sound Devices recorder or pre-amp unprofessional, compared to anything that Zoom puts out is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life!  Sound Devices is the epitome of professional recording equipment...as opposed to Zoom, which is anything but. Seriously dude, if you're going to try and sell your toys, you should really set your sights on a much, much lower target to compete with.

I'm not saying the MixPre series never ever can be used on professional shoots. Of course not, I know plenty of people who do. I might even consider one myself if I saw one pop up at an irresistible price to play around with.

Just wanted to point out that Sound Devices MixPre series has just has many flaws / negatives / deal breakers as the Zoom F series has, if not even more! (certainly in my eyes it is more, & why I didn't choose one)

Whoever is interested in correct information regarding the original question in this post needs to listen to the people that own and use the machines they are interested in, not garbage from someone trying to sell their crap.  Rant over  :smash:

I am *NOT* trying to sell anything. Have nothing of mine that I wish to sell now. Neither do I work for any product company but myself as a freelance sound crew person on shoots.

And I do use (unlike most people in this thread it seems) almost daily a Zoom F series recorder in my work, and have so for a couple of years now. And I also own several Sound Devices products as well (in fact a Sound Devices recorder was my usual recorder before I stepped up by upgrading my kit to a Zoom F4)

If people have used a Zoom H4n or whatever years ago in their past or only lightly played around with an F8 for a few minutes in a shop when it was first released, then they are doing a great disservice to themselves and the wider forum community to be writing off Zoom's F series as rubbish, and they'd be better off chucking out all their preconceived notions they formed about Zoom years ago. As their new F series is so different from their past work that it almost might as well be from a different company!



Offline rippleish20

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2018, 01:04:33 PM »
Some of the responses to IronFilms comment seem way over the top.  No, USB-c is not the only way to externally power the Mixpre-3/6 but why is it hard to be adult and simply point out he is wrong. 

The Zoom F4 and F8 are great devices in my opinion. Yes Zoom is a consumer company but they are starting to move into the prosumer world and the F series are nice. The release of these device has seemingly brought in some competition to SD. SD deserves its reputation for high quality equipment and support, but the Mixpre-x's to me are a move down into prosumer and my view is that they did make some odd choices with them. While there are many methods to externally power a Mixpre-3/6, and IronFilm was wrong, USB-C does seem to me to be an odd choice and is really a prosumer strategy.

Schoeps CMC6 (MK22's) / AKG C480B (ck61, ck63, ck8) / DPA (4061) / Neumann KM100 (AK40, AK50) / Audio Technica AT4050ST/ AT853s  (cardiod, omni) / CA-14 (cardiod) / CA-11 (Omni) /
Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Mixpre-3 /Roland R-07 /Tascam DR-100mkIII / d:vice

Offline IronFilm

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2018, 10:36:24 PM »
Some of the responses to IronFilms comment seem way over the top.  No, USB-c is not the only way to externally power the Mixpre-3/6 but why is it hard to be adult and simply point out he is wrong. 

The Zoom F4 and F8 are great devices in my opinion. Yes Zoom is a consumer company but they are starting to move into the prosumer world and the F series are nice. The release of these device has seemingly brought in some competition to SD. SD deserves its reputation for high quality equipment and support, but the Mixpre-x's to me are a move down into prosumer and my view is that they did make some odd choices with them. While there are many methods to externally power a Mixpre-3/6, and IronFilm was wrong, USB-C does seem to me to be an odd choice and is really a prosumer strategy.

I'll repeat my point again:
The MixPre3/6 can not be powered both internally and externally at once except using the USB consumer standard.

Please show a step up which proves I'm wrong? As I've never seen any other way to do this. I'd actually like to know, as I see this as a drawback for the MixPre6 and was one of several reasons why I didn't buy it vs a F8n. (other issues are even more serious like limited to 4 channels with TC, and other issues have been resolved finally with a firmware update such as ambisonics/pre-roll/control panel but none of these were possible at all back when I purchased my F8n)

Offline nak700s

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2018, 01:44:37 PM »
What the fuck are you talking about?  Calling anything about a Sound Devices recorder or pre-amp unprofessional, compared to anything that Zoom puts out is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life!  Sound Devices is the epitome of professional recording equipment...as opposed to Zoom, which is anything but. Seriously dude, if you're going to try and sell your toys, you should really set your sights on a much, much lower target to compete with.

I'm not saying the MixPre series never ever can be used on professional shoots. Of course not, I know plenty of people who do. I might even consider one myself if I saw one pop up at an irresistible price to play around with.

Just wanted to point out that Sound Devices MixPre series has just has many flaws / negatives / deal breakers as the Zoom F series has, if not even more! (certainly in my eyes it is more, & why I didn't choose one)

Whoever is interested in correct information regarding the original question in this post needs to listen to the people that own and use the machines they are interested in, not garbage from someone trying to sell their crap.  Rant over  :smash:

I am *NOT* trying to sell anything. Have nothing of mine that I wish to sell now. Neither do I work for any product company but myself as a freelance sound crew person on shoots.

And I do use (unlike most people in this thread it seems) almost daily a Zoom F series recorder in my work, and have so for a couple of years now. And I also own several Sound Devices products as well (in fact a Sound Devices recorder was my usual recorder before I stepped up by upgrading my kit to a Zoom F4)

If people have used a Zoom H4n or whatever years ago in their past or only lightly played around with an F8 for a few minutes in a shop when it was first released, then they are doing a great disservice to themselves and the wider forum community to be writing off Zoom's F series as rubbish, and they'd be better off chucking out all their preconceived notions they formed about Zoom years ago. As their new F series is so different from their past work that it almost might as well be from a different company!


"I'm not saying the MixPre series never ever can be used on professional shoots."
Sound Devices IS used in the most professional sense that you can possibly imagine!  Yes, THE most.  They are used in the film industry.  When you see those behind the scenes shots of the sound guys micing the actors, with booms, and other techniques, that IS what's in their bags.  A good friend of mine works in that industry and does just that.  He couldn't wait to tell me, someone who uses them for live audio recording, about the MixPre 6 when it came out because he often used that as opposed to the 788T and 744T he was using before that.  These recorders are used for TV, movies, commercials, etc.. They do not use Zoom anything for anything.  Somehow, I don't think that's a coincidence, I think it's by design.

Certainly, you can be very happy with your Zoom equipment, which is terrific, and I'm glad you are, but more than likely, a happy Sound Devices user isn't going to take a step down to something inferior unless they need the money for their unit knowing they can buy a new Zoom F8 for a fraction of the cost.  I can't imagine what Sound Devices equipment you were using that you considered a Zoom an upgrade, but I'm guessing it may have been due for a little maintenance or something I'm unfamiliar with.  Being happy with your equipment and the recordings you make with it is all that matters.  Using it should be a pleasurable experience.  You are obviously happy with you Zoom, and again, that's all that matters.

Just to sight an example of a discussion I was having yesterday with a friend: We were talking about turntables, and he had said that his Denon was the best.  I quietly laughed to myself, knowing how wrong he was.  To each their own, he is happy and that is all that matters.

Isn't a new Zoom F8 around $1000.00 (I think less, but without looking it up I figured on the high side)?  A new Sound Devices 744T, is over $4300.00...ever hear the expression, "You get what you pay for"?  Yeah, it's true.  Another is, "There's a sucker born every minute"...but considering the applications the Sound Devices are used for...I'm thinking that one doesn't apply here  ;)

BTW, I really don't mean to go all crazy on you about this, but the original post, if I'm not mistaken, was asking about a 744T compared to others...and since that's what I normally use, I take it to heart (like yourself).

::: peace :::
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Fun times: 3 Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD744T + 2 Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline rippleish20

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2018, 02:08:54 PM »
Some of the responses to IronFilms comment seem way over the top.  No, USB-c is not the only way to externally power the Mixpre-3/6 but why is it hard to be adult and simply point out he is wrong. 

The Zoom F4 and F8 are great devices in my opinion. Yes Zoom is a consumer company but they are starting to move into the prosumer world and the F series are nice. The release of these device has seemingly brought in some competition to SD. SD deserves its reputation for high quality equipment and support, but the Mixpre-x's to me are a move down into prosumer and my view is that they did make some odd choices with them. While there are many methods to externally power a Mixpre-3/6, and IronFilm was wrong, USB-C does seem to me to be an odd choice and is really a prosumer strategy.


I'll repeat my point again:
The MixPre3/6 can not be powered both internally and externally at once except using the USB consumer standard.

Please show a step up which proves I'm wrong? As I've never seen any other way to do this. I'd actually like to know, as I see this as a drawback for the MixPre6 and was one of several reasons why I didn't buy it vs a F8n. (other issues are even more serious like limited to 4 channels with TC, and other issues have been resolved finally with a firmware update such as ambisonics/pre-roll/control panel but none of these were possible at all back when I purchased my F8n)

Oye.

You said in the post I responded to "For some field recordists the dodgy consumer USB power as the only external powering if a very unprofessional strike against the MixPre. ". Nothing in that statement says anything about internal and external.  I viewed it as complaining about using USB-c for external powering, which I agree with. There are several methods a for external powering like the Hirose sled from Cable Creations and the one from Hawk Woods. I also have a "fake battery sled" from Hawk Woods that goes in the L-Mount battery sled. It has a 12v DC power connector. You can run one LMount battery in conjunction with an external 12v battery for redundancy. If the Lmount battery runs out, you can hot swap in another one....

Schoeps CMC6 (MK22's) / AKG C480B (ck61, ck63, ck8) / DPA (4061) / Neumann KM100 (AK40, AK50) / Audio Technica AT4050ST/ AT853s  (cardiod, omni) / CA-14 (cardiod) / CA-11 (Omni) /
Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Mixpre-3 /Roland R-07 /Tascam DR-100mkIII / d:vice

Offline yug du nord

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2018, 10:33:58 AM »
Quote from: nak700s
Isn't a new Zoom F8 around $1000.00 (I think less, but without looking it up I figured on the high side)?  A new Sound Devices 744T, is over $4300.00...ever hear the expression, "You get what you pay for"?  Yeah, it's true.  Another is, "There's a sucker born every minute"...but considering the applications the Sound Devices are used for...I'm thinking that one doesn't apply here  ;)

Off topic...  but speaks loudly of the current culture in America. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/business/2018/11/30/they-had-us-fooled-inside-paylesss-elaborate-prank-dupe-people-into-paying-shoes/

I've never used a Zoom product..  and am a firm believer in SD products....  but many products can make great recordings..  it just comes down to using a product that you can trust that has the features you need/want.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 10:39:09 AM by yug du nord »
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline dactylus

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2018, 11:24:19 AM »
Some of the responses to IronFilms comment seem way over the top.  No, USB-c is not the only way to externally power the Mixpre-3/6 but why is it hard to be adult and simply point out he is wrong. 

The Zoom F4 and F8 are great devices in my opinion. Yes Zoom is a consumer company but they are starting to move into the prosumer world and the F series are nice. The release of these device has seemingly brought in some competition to SD. SD deserves its reputation for high quality equipment and support, but the Mixpre-x's to me are a move down into prosumer and my view is that they did make some odd choices with them. While there are many methods to externally power a Mixpre-3/6, and IronFilm was wrong, USB-C does seem to me to be an odd choice and is really a prosumer strategy.

I'll repeat my point again:
The MixPre3/6 can not be powered both internally and externally at once except using the USB consumer standard.


Please show a step up which proves I'm wrong? As I've never seen any other way to do this. I'd actually like to know, as I see this as a drawback for the MixPre6 and was one of several reasons why I didn't buy it vs a F8n. (other issues are even more serious like limited to 4 channels with TC, and other issues have been resolved finally with a firmware update such as ambisonics/pre-roll/control panel but none of these were possible at all back when I purchased my F8n)

^
Not true

http://www.hawkwoods.co.uk/Prods/Product/LR-08
or
http://www.hawkwoods.co.uk/Prods/Product/LR-06

Occupying one side of this Sound Devices mount:  https://www.sounddevices.com/products/accessories/power-accessories/mx-lmount

And one Sony® L-type battery occupying slot 2 of the Sound Devices mount

So, one Sony® L-type battery + one of the above listed Hawk-Woods options, both mounted in the SD MX-LMount  =  internal and external powering without using the USB option


hot licks > microphones > recorder



...ball of confusion, that's what the world is today, hey hey...

Offline noahbickart

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Re: 744T vs current options
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2018, 11:39:29 AM »
I still don't understand the issue. A usb-c connection used for power is no better or worse than any other non locking dc connector. When used with right angle usb-c cables, this connection is plenty secure for any normal use.

If you need a locking connector, there are lots of ways to use a hirose cable with this unit.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

 

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