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Author Topic: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM  (Read 6962 times)

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Offline Galen

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Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« on: May 01, 2018, 11:37:06 PM »
Understand that laws vary State to State, Country to Country. Understand that to be convicted of copyright infringement the prosecuting attorney, if one is prosecuted (big if), must demonstrate intent for financial gain of the individual recording and/or selling the recording(s). But what about those people that do not sell their recordings which would be... most tapers.

When you purchase a ticket for a concert you enter into a contractual obligation via the ticket: there are rules associated with the ticket and you must follow such rules if not you may be ejected. Simple stuff. If you tape a concert with microphones you are recording the ambience, if you will, of the room. If someone catches you and audio taping was not allowed you have thus violated the terms of the ticket and can by all rights be ejected from the venue. A good friend of mine is a lawyer who has given me guidance on several aspects of this but laws again vary State to State. I am curious about how this translates throughout the rest of North America and potentially the rest of the world? I have been taping on various levels since 2000 with several failed attempts dating back to 1998. Since then, have close to a thousand shows under my taping belt and have been very curious about this issue.

I have been caught taping at: GWAR in 2002 (kicked me out, I gave them my MD), Tool in 6/29/2007 (snuck back in afterwards, different story) and in 2011 a 'tool of a taper' contacted the venue at a Puscifer show and they ended up calling the cops on me which sucked but I still taped everything I wanted to.

What about tapers who pick up radio frequency (RF) and/or IEM recordings? Does this violate wiretapping laws similar to recording a private cell phone conversation? Hard to determine, seems unclear, as far as we can tell there is not one tested case on the books - anywhere. If you record a private conversation in certain States that is not ok, in other States it is fine based. One argument is that if one is broadcasting RF in an enclosed space/property and someone records that frequency *outside* of that space within the legal RF spectrum (i.e.: 470-688) there is no law that does not permit that - like if you parked just close enough to the venue to pick up frequency. (If you recorded that inside the venue you would be subject to the terms of the ticket).

For those that actually know and can cite sources of information, not opinion and conjecture, any thoughts?
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Offline Scooter123

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2018, 01:14:06 AM »
If you get caught inside a venue taping with an audience rig or IEM packs, you will be brought to security, questioned by police and if you are lucky, escorted out of the building. Your gear is a crap shoot.  You might get it back, might not.  Sure, you try arguing with the cops that this is the same as being out in the parking lot.  Give them a legal memorandum.  Good luck with that. 

If this happens in a foreign country, then anything goes.

Bottom Line:   Most of the people caught are turned in by patrons next to them or behind them that spot an errant wire or a red light on your rig.  After Manchester, I don't blame them,  If you honestly want to tape a major act audience or IEM in a big venue, you better have your "A" game on.  This is not some game anymore. 
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Offline Galen

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2018, 01:00:27 PM »
I have been taping in one form or another for 20 years, have been caught several times and never had an interaction with police. Always security who threatened to take personal belongings (i.e.: equipment but I never did that). If you get busted taping a show using a DAT for example you do not have to give anyone your tape - you may choose to - but it is still your, personal equipment. Either way, you are getting kicked out of the venue. Citing the Manchester attack - remember, that was not from inside a concert but a guy wired up wearing a bomb who detonated it as people walked out of the concert. If one is going to reference actual shootings inside a venue perhaps the Bataclan or Dimebag Darrell's death in Columbus, OH in 2004. But all of that was totally off topic.

Friend of mine is a lawyer and he did a little digging into this for me. There are laws on the books, varying by State, pertaining to wiretapping rules and consent. This can include both hijacking a frequency (i.e.: cell phone) and record it or recording someone without them knowing. But then comes 'public spaces' meaning no one should expect privacy in public. If you are at a public event and record the sounds then that could be considered fair use. If you get busted by security at a private event you have violated the terms of admission from the ticket you purchased. But you have not broken the law.

We did some digging around and could not find any times a taper has been prosecuted simply for recording a concert. There are plenty of prosecutions resulting in bootlegged material because there was intent to distribute live recordings for a financial gain though. Thus the purpose of my post is to see if other tapers have stories or information to share on this.


If you get caught inside a venue taping with an audience rig or IEM packs, you will be brought to security, questioned by police and if you are lucky, escorted out of the building. Your gear is a crap shoot.  You might get it back, might not.  Sure, you try arguing with the cops that this is the same as being out in the parking lot.  Give them a legal memorandum.  Good luck with that. 

If this happens in a foreign country, then anything goes.

Bottom Line:   Most of the people caught are turned in by patrons next to them or behind them that spot an errant wire or a red light on your rig.  After Manchester, I don't blame them,  If you honestly want to tape a major act audience or IEM in a big venue, you better have your "A" game on.  This is not some game anymore.
http://www.collectiveunconscious.org/

Recorders:
Sony PCM-M1 (Oade Mod II) x 2, Sony PCM-M1 (stock) x 1
Casio DA-R100 (1991 model, only used when able to use DC)
Edirol R-09
Tascam DA-R40
Sony MD RZ700 (retired)
Sharp MD MT-180 (retired)

Microphones:
Nakamichi CM-300, omni (Stealth/non-mod, my father's originals from 1978)
DPA 4061 > MPS6030
Aiwa CM-30
Core Sound Binauarals
Soundman OKMII-R
Marantz EM-8
SEN G2/3
Shure P10R (470-698)
Icom RX7

Offline Limit35

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2018, 12:42:08 AM »
Can't one record IEM from outside? IEMs broadcast in UHF (or did?) so it would be a matter of getting a tuned antenna and a receiver and parking near the broadcast area of the venue and trying it out. I don't know if companies use digital or analog anymore which would affect one's ability to monitor the broadcast.

I am no lawyer, but I know I can legally listen to RF frequencies except cell phones. Receivers are sold just for that. It was a big deal when cell phones appeared in the 800 MHz range and scanners had access to that portion of the frequency spectrum. They had to be modified by the manufacturer, which was easily circumvented, or have that area completely unaccessible to the user. I believe you weren't suppose to listen or tape cordless phones either back in the day. In summary no, it is not illegal to monitor radio frequencies since, in the US anyway, they are part of a public radio spectrum that is leased to users by the FCC. State laws may cause trouble however. I remember a state banned scanners due to police lobbying, one problem is in NASCAR a lot of fans listen to their favorite drivers. Local police where citing people with radios as they caravaned into town, car antennas probably being a red flag. This was 20yrs ago in the upper Midwest somewhere.

If you are in the US, Google your local laws. Print them out and throw them in your gear bag. Other countries are not as RF monitor friendly.

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2018, 04:15:16 AM »
Can't one record IEM from outside? IEMs broadcast in UHF (or did?) so it would be a matter of getting a tuned antenna and a receiver and parking near the broadcast area of the venue and trying it out. I don't know if companies use digital or analog anymore which would affect one's ability to monitor the broadcast.

I am no lawyer, but I know I can legally listen to RF frequencies except cell phones. Receivers are sold just for that. It was a big deal when cell phones appeared in the 800 MHz range and scanners had access to that portion of the frequency spectrum. They had to be modified by the manufacturer, which was easily circumvented, or have that area completely unaccessible to the user. I believe you weren't suppose to listen or tape cordless phones either back in the day. In summary no, it is not illegal to monitor radio frequencies since, in the US anyway, they are part of a public radio spectrum that is leased to users by the FCC. State laws may cause trouble however. I remember a state banned scanners due to police lobbying, one problem is in NASCAR a lot of fans listen to their favorite drivers. Local police where citing people with radios as they caravaned into town, car antennas probably being a red flag. This was 20yrs ago in the upper Midwest somewhere.

If you are in the US, Google your local laws. Print them out and throw them in your gear bag. Other countries are not as RF monitor friendly.

Can't be done at Madison Square Garden but I have seen it done from a parking structure right above the stage.

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2018, 11:21:01 AM »
Citing the Manchester attack - remember, that was not from inside a concert but a guy wired up wearing a bomb who detonated it as people walked out of the concert. If one is going to reference actual shootings inside a venue perhaps the Bataclan or Dimebag Darrell's death in Columbus, OH in 2004. But all of that was totally off topic.

This is a non-starter. We make that differentiation because we want to feel like it won't make a difference to us, but that's not the case. To everybody outside of the people-who-sneak-things-into-arenas community that was an attack on a show and warrants more security. Everybody is more vigilant about errant electronics and bomby looking things these days. Doesn't matter that the dude didn't actually get inside. Same way it doesn't matter that the Bataclan guys didn't sneak guns in, they stormed the gates. Metal detectors don't stop people storming the gates...

IEM tapers seem to be a very secretive bunch, but from the ones I've interacted with, it appears most tape from outside the arena. Once had a dude send me a photo of his rig in the trunk of his car. Had a full rack of receivers/recorders/antennas. Was pretty impressive...
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Offline Galen

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2018, 12:33:20 AM »
Thank you Limit35 & AKA Mike B. Relevant and appreciated information. Whenever possible everything pulled from the outside, however, there are plenty of occasions where this is simply not an option. At least for most people 100% of the time, no place to park.

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Recorders:
Sony PCM-M1 (Oade Mod II) x 2, Sony PCM-M1 (stock) x 1
Casio DA-R100 (1991 model, only used when able to use DC)
Edirol R-09
Tascam DA-R40
Sony MD RZ700 (retired)
Sharp MD MT-180 (retired)

Microphones:
Nakamichi CM-300, omni (Stealth/non-mod, my father's originals from 1978)
DPA 4061 > MPS6030
Aiwa CM-30
Core Sound Binauarals
Soundman OKMII-R
Marantz EM-8
SEN G2/3
Shure P10R (470-698)
Icom RX7

Offline Limit35

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Offline down2earthlandscaper

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2018, 12:45:31 AM »
Citing the Manchester attack - remember, that was not from inside a concert but a guy wired up wearing a bomb who detonated it as people walked out of the concert. If one is going to reference actual shootings inside a venue perhaps the Bataclan or Dimebag Darrell's death in Columbus, OH in 2004. But all of that was totally off topic.

This is a non-starter. We make that differentiation because we want to feel like it won't make a difference to us, but that's not the case. To everybody outside of the people-who-sneak-things-into-arenas community that was an attack on a show and warrants more security. Everybody is more vigilant about errant electronics and bomby looking things these days. Doesn't matter that the dude didn't actually get inside. Same way it doesn't matter that the Bataclan guys didn't sneak guns in, they stormed the gates. Metal detectors don't stop people storming the gates...

IEM tapers seem to be a very secretive bunch, but from the ones I've interacted with, it appears most tape from outside the arena. Once had a dude send me a photo of his rig in the trunk of his car. Had a full rack of receivers/recorders/antennas. Was pretty impressive...

CA Ugly2 preamp is a perfect example of a really bomby looking device!
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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2018, 12:56:35 AM »
Where do these IEM recordings circulate?  Dime? I don't think I've ever heard one.
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Offline Limit35

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2018, 01:00:24 AM »
Citing the Manchester attack - remember, that was not from inside a concert but a guy wired up wearing a bomb who detonated it as people walked out of the concert. If one is going to reference actual shootings inside a venue perhaps the Bataclan or Dimebag Darrell's death in Columbus, OH in 2004. But all of that was totally off topic.

IEM tapers seem to be a very secretive bunch, but from the ones I've interacted with, it appears most tape from outside the arena. Once had a dude send me a photo of his rig in the trunk of his car. Had a full rack of receivers/recorders/antennas. Was pretty impressive...

I have never monitored IEM but I imagine you would have to deal with multiple frequencies, so multiple receivers would be needed for a show, active antennas would help pulling in a weak signal. If I was outside I would use a tuned antenna for each individual frequency. The benefit, or not depending on your preference, would be you would look pretty narc like with that rig on your car.

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2018, 07:41:56 AM »
Citing the Manchester attack - remember, that was not from inside a concert but a guy wired up wearing a bomb who detonated it as people walked out of the concert. If one is going to reference actual shootings inside a venue perhaps the Bataclan or Dimebag Darrell's death in Columbus, OH in 2004. But all of that was totally off topic.

IEM tapers seem to be a very secretive bunch, but from the ones I've interacted with, it appears most tape from outside the arena. Once had a dude send me a photo of his rig in the trunk of his car. Had a full rack of receivers/recorders/antennas. Was pretty impressive...

I have never monitored IEM but I imagine you would have to deal with multiple frequencies, so multiple receivers would be needed for a show, active antennas would help pulling in a weak signal. If I was outside I would use a tuned antenna for each individual frequency. The benefit, or not depending on your preference, would be you would look pretty narc like with that rig on your car.

It’s a a whole process day of show. Usually involves finding freqs during soundcheck from what I gather
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Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2018, 07:43:29 AM »
Citing the Manchester attack - remember, that was not from inside a concert but a guy wired up wearing a bomb who detonated it as people walked out of the concert. If one is going to reference actual shootings inside a venue perhaps the Bataclan or Dimebag Darrell's death in Columbus, OH in 2004. But all of that was totally off topic.

This is a non-starter. We make that differentiation because we want to feel like it won't make a difference to us, but that's not the case. To everybody outside of the people-who-sneak-things-into-arenas community that was an attack on a show and warrants more security. Everybody is more vigilant about errant electronics and bomby looking things these days. Doesn't matter that the dude didn't actually get inside. Same way it doesn't matter that the Bataclan guys didn't sneak guns in, they stormed the gates. Metal detectors don't stop people storming the gates...

IEM tapers seem to be a very secretive bunch, but from the ones I've interacted with, it appears most tape from outside the arena. Once had a dude send me a photo of his rig in the trunk of his car. Had a full rack of receivers/recorders/antennas. Was pretty impressive...

CA Ugly2 preamp is a perfect example of a really bomby looking device!

Yuuuup. Combine that with a wire coming out of your shift and a device with a red light that you keep looking at, and no amount of “he wasn’t actually in the building”is gonna do you any good...
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Offline EmRR

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2018, 09:14:42 AM »
Recording RF/IEM would be very expensive and likely not yield a terribly useful recording; not everything will be in mic transmitter paths and IEM signals are not a mix anyone other than the performer would want to hear in context, certainly not out of context.  A receiver channel per capture; very expensive rig.  If you get a signal.  The scanning software built to work with many receiver rigs now would allow fairly easy identification, OTOH, wireless space is becoming so crowded it's also likely you'd get interference at distance in many places. 

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2018, 10:06:05 AM »
Recording RF/IEM would be very expensive and likely not yield a terribly useful recording; not everything will be in mic transmitter paths and IEM signals are not a mix anyone other than the performer would want to hear in context, certainly not out of context.  A receiver channel per capture; very expensive rig.  If you get a signal.  The scanning software built to work with many receiver rigs now would allow fairly easy identification, OTOH, wireless space is becoming so crowded it's also likely you'd get interference at distance in many places.

Definitely not true. Some of my favorite tapes are IEM tapes. Some amazing ones floating around (U2 ones in particular tend to be fantastic)
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Offline EmRR

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2018, 11:49:57 AM »
Recording RF/IEM would be very expensive and likely not yield a terribly useful recording; not everything will be in mic transmitter paths and IEM signals are not a mix anyone other than the performer would want to hear in context, certainly not out of context.  A receiver channel per capture; very expensive rig.  If you get a signal.  The scanning software built to work with many receiver rigs now would allow fairly easy identification, OTOH, wireless space is becoming so crowded it's also likely you'd get interference at distance in many places.

Definitely not true. Some of my favorite tapes are IEM tapes. Some amazing ones floating around (U2 ones in particular tend to be fantastic)

Sure, U2!  Every show is so well tech'd.  Not.  That's a full service experience, unlike most situations.  I've run a lot of monitor mixes, and I've never built one for someone that was something anyone other than them, onstage, would want to listen to. 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 11:53:02 AM by EmRR »

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2018, 12:45:54 PM »
Recording RF/IEM would be very expensive and likely not yield a terribly useful recording; not everything will be in mic transmitter paths and IEM signals are not a mix anyone other than the performer would want to hear in context, certainly not out of context.  A receiver channel per capture; very expensive rig.  If you get a signal.  The scanning software built to work with many receiver rigs now would allow fairly easy identification, OTOH, wireless space is becoming so crowded it's also likely you'd get interference at distance in many places.

Definitely not true. Some of my favorite tapes are IEM tapes. Some amazing ones floating around (U2 ones in particular tend to be fantastic)

Sure, U2!  Every show is so well tech'd.  Not.  That's a full service experience, unlike most situations.  I've run a lot of monitor mixes, and I've never built one for someone that was something anyone other than them, onstage, would want to listen to.

I've done my fair share as well and most non-vocalist IEM mixes are pretty solid IMO. Also, the shows that do get IEM taped tend to be large arena/stadium shows. So your level of teching isn't much of an issue... Just go on dime and search IEM. You'll find plenty of great sounding ones
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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2018, 01:11:00 PM »
Where do these IEM recordings circulate?  Dime? I don't think I've ever heard one.
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Please contact me if you've ever taped the Smashing Pumpkins or a related group!

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2018, 01:31:01 PM »
Where do these IEM recordings circulate?  Dime? I don't think I've ever heard one.
Japanese boot labels

and dime
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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2018, 04:12:07 PM »
Citing the Manchester attack - remember, that was not from inside a concert but a guy wired up wearing a bomb who detonated it as people walked out of the concert. If one is going to reference actual shootings inside a venue perhaps the Bataclan or Dimebag Darrell's death in Columbus, OH in 2004. But all of that was totally off topic.

IEM tapers seem to be a very secretive bunch, but from the ones I've interacted with, it appears most tape from outside the arena. Once had a dude send me a photo of his rig in the trunk of his car. Had a full rack of receivers/recorders/antennas. Was pretty impressive...

I have never monitored IEM but I imagine you would have to deal with multiple frequencies, so multiple receivers would be needed for a show, active antennas would help pulling in a weak signal. If I was outside I would use a tuned antenna for each individual frequency. The benefit, or not depending on your preference, would be you would look pretty narc like with that rig on your car.

It’s a a whole process day of show. Usually involves finding freqs during soundcheck from what I gather

Yep. 

Offline Galen

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2018, 05:26:19 PM »
I do not about y'all but 99% of every show I attend I pull wireless with the correct receiver but I do use a scanner to determine the frequencies. Overwhelmingly, I do not bring my gear inside except for a rogue AUD source for fun. Last shows I hit were AWOLNATION (4 x IEM sources including Aaron Bruno mix), Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds (5 x sources - really great mixes), Morrissey (only two good mixes well one really and that is the keyboardist), A Perfect Circle (6 x sources all amazing but they had 12 total of choices), Elbow (5 x sources including Guy Garvey's mix which is pristine), QOTSA (5 x sources J. Homme by far the best mix), The National (4 x IEM but they have oddly poorly balanced mixes on an individual level), Paul McCartney (1 x Macca mix, inside pull, but McCartney only uses one earbud in his left ear), Gorillaz (5 x mixes), Sturgill Simpson (4 x) and that was just Feb 2018 to Sept 2017... so on and so forth over the course of years.

But I would put any since source of most any IEM I've pulled against a great AUD recording. I love great AUD recordings and still record that way when I have to. There are times when you cannot IEM tape because it involves so much extra stuff to sneak in and there is no way to tape outside - think most amphitheaters as they are usually a bowl and dip down thus at the bottom of a hill. I cannot guess what other people have share(d) in regards to current IEM's but the quality is definitely there if you learn how to effectively tape in such a manner.  That said, I do not do anything with the recordings partly because I've seen how crazy people get about these things. I saw a Tool IEM (sourced from a scanner! Come on yuck!) and it was pressed onto vinyl and sold on eBay. I didn't pull it but that put a poor taste in my mouth. There are a certain amount of tapers who do this. But I think that *most* of the more prolific RF tapers who know what they are doing are not trying to gain Internet acclaim because they do not care about that.
http://www.collectiveunconscious.org/

Recorders:
Sony PCM-M1 (Oade Mod II) x 2, Sony PCM-M1 (stock) x 1
Casio DA-R100 (1991 model, only used when able to use DC)
Edirol R-09
Tascam DA-R40
Sony MD RZ700 (retired)
Sharp MD MT-180 (retired)

Microphones:
Nakamichi CM-300, omni (Stealth/non-mod, my father's originals from 1978)
DPA 4061 > MPS6030
Aiwa CM-30
Core Sound Binauarals
Soundman OKMII-R
Marantz EM-8
SEN G2/3
Shure P10R (470-698)
Icom RX7

obsidian

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2018, 06:07:29 PM »
Great discussion. I have enjoyed reading all the comments. It's a little sidebar to the topic, but I have noticed that as a stealth taper it is getting tough to get gear inside now. With walk thru scanners, hand wands and old school pat downs. I don't blame the venue whatsoever, no one wants to be the next venue to have an a major incident, so security has tightened. These days it's not just getting "in" but people in general are on the lookout so when someone see's wires or an strange looking device, they usually run to the closest security personnel.  I use to use the wonderful Naiant IPA (see picture) but this thing looks like some sort of "device" ... even the Church Audio Ugly has caused me issues.

I know some people have had no problems getting gear in, and good for them, but you are kidding yourself if you think things have not got a LOT tighter and I don't see it ever getting any easier.


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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2018, 06:18:58 PM »
Hopefully using a cell phone as a recorder will soon become as easy and reliable as using a dedicated recorder.  Once that happens (I'm confident it's only a matter of time), that will be one less piece of gear to sneak in since EVERYONE brings in cell phones.  (While some shows are trying to keep people from having their phones, those seem to be few and far between.)
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | AT AE5100s | AT853s (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3s | DPA 4061s | CA-14 omnis | Studio Projects CS5
Pre: CA9200
Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05 | Tascam DR-2d

obsidian

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2018, 06:23:14 PM »
Hopefully using a cell phone as a recorder will soon become as easy and reliable as using a dedicated recorder.  Once that happens (I'm confident it's only a matter of time), that will be one less piece of gear to sneak in since EVERYONE brings in cell phones.  (While some shows are trying to keep people from having their phones, those seem to be few and far between.)

I spoke to one of the Security Personnel at a venue in ATL and they are going to start using this ...

https://www.overyondr.com/


Offline Galen

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2018, 06:28:41 PM »
obsidian...

Yes, I have been talking to people and I feel the exact same way. Venues where up to the end of 2016 you could walk right into with your taping stuff 'recording and geared-up' with zero security at the door now have metal detectors, wands, pat downs and a sense of a take no shit attitude by staff. I was at The 1975 in Detroit the night of the Manchester attack @ Ariana Grande show and first I heard of it was when Matt Healy spoke about it after 'Change of Heart'. That show really had some intense energy from the band. They are from Manchester and it hit home for them, you could hear it.

A few days later I drove many hours to Hamilton, Ontario about a year ago to see Tool. To note, I did record IEM of this and had to physically go below the ground into the parking deck to figure out the signal during soundcheck then got promptly kicked out of that area by security. Anyway. Getting into the venue, I had 1 (DAT Sony M1), 1 RF box, plugs + headphones, DPA 4061 + battery box, and a Sony M10. First security sent me to second level security where a cop watched a higher-trained person do the check on me...gave my cover story, made it in. They wanded me and I got felt by security... I had a lot of stuff to sneak in. Helps when you are closer to 40 than 20. Went to a family bathroom and got my stuff organized then went to a bar inside the venue where I stayed until ~10 minutes before the show started (had 2 beers over 2 hours), went back to the bathroom, started my sources and went to my seat. Recorded a great performance. Mix sounded superb and the AUD was awesome. Long drive back home - got back at 3AM, up at 7, took kids to school, went to work, crashed at night. But I almost got popped at the door and I've been doing this a long time.

A week later, went to the Pine Knob or DTE (Michigan) as it is referred to now. My best buddy came from NY for the show. No problem with security as we have connections locally. We had row 7 tickets - closest I have ever been to Tool. Great performance. Thing is, saw bomb sniffing dogs, armed cops inside the venue (never see that @ DTE) and the 'security' were checking people out if they had pulled out their phone. Intense stuff. Keep in mind, these were events just a week + from the Ariana Grande performance in Manchester, England.

Since the Manchester attack, I have noticed a very real change. To all the tapers out there, keep on doing what you want but know that your hobby is now significantly harder. If you are not feeling it now, great, I hope that you never do. But the music business is a business. Businesses want to sell whatever product they offer in order to make money. That is the bottom line. Tapers are lower level annoyances in the eyes of many bands, Tool included, and until now getting your gear inside hasn't had to be like breaking into a bank. There are now several items in use that venues and promoters have at their disposal to use. Yes, they are for weapons and whatnot but some of this newer implemented technology will pick up whatever equipment you are attempting to covertly bring in.

In October 2017, the night of the Las Vegas shooting, I took my eldest to see Paul McCartney in Detroit, MI. So it was me and my son going through metal-detector-airport-security-style for McCartney. None of this would've rang off bells even two years back. He gets through obviously fine, I had DAT, scanner, IEM box, wires, headphones, microphones... taping stuff with me. I had several security staff come to me, wands, another pat-down. I make it through of course because hey I am with my kid right but for those that maybe are not as well prepared... good luck.  At that McCartney show, I saw bomb sniffing dogs inside and outside the venue, unmarked security personal blending as attendees, armed police and at least one policeman w/what looked to me like an AK-47. But I don't know for sure. If I had my way, every American would have health insurance and people could have guns only if they passed yearly competency tests. So what do I know?

Maybe I am older, which I am, but the thing with taping these days is that I am glad I do maybe 90% of it remotely so I do not have to even worry about security anymore. Things are definitely different these days with taping.
Things have changed.

And I'm not just talking about the dumpster fire that is the United States White House under President Trump.

http://www.collectiveunconscious.org/

Recorders:
Sony PCM-M1 (Oade Mod II) x 2, Sony PCM-M1 (stock) x 1
Casio DA-R100 (1991 model, only used when able to use DC)
Edirol R-09
Tascam DA-R40
Sony MD RZ700 (retired)
Sharp MD MT-180 (retired)

Microphones:
Nakamichi CM-300, omni (Stealth/non-mod, my father's originals from 1978)
DPA 4061 > MPS6030
Aiwa CM-30
Core Sound Binauarals
Soundman OKMII-R
Marantz EM-8
SEN G2/3
Shure P10R (470-698)
Icom RX7

obsidian

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2018, 06:47:30 PM »
obsidian...

Yes, I have been talking to people and I feel the exact same way. Venues where up to the end of 2016 you could walk right into with your taping stuff 'recording and geared-up' with zero security at the door now have metal detectors, wands, pat downs and a sense of a take no shit attitude by staff. I was at The 1975 in Detroit the night of the Manchester attack @ Ariana Grande show and first I heard of it was when Matt Healy spoke about it after 'Change of Heart'. That show really had some intense energy from the band. They are from Manchester and it hit home for them, you could hear it.

A few days later I drove many hours to Hamilton, Ontario about a year ago to see Tool. To note, I did record IEM of this and had to physically go below the ground into the parking deck to figure out the signal during soundcheck then got promptly kicked out of that area by security. Anyway. Getting into the venue, I had 1 (DAT Sony M1), 1 RF box, plugs + headphones, DPA 4061 + battery box, and a Sony M10. First security sent me to second level security where a cop watched a higher-trained person do the check on me...gave my cover story, made it in. They wanded me and I got felt by security... I had a lot of stuff to sneak in. Helps when you are closer to 40 than 20. Went to a family bathroom and got my stuff organized then went to a bar inside the venue where I stayed until ~10 minutes before the show started (had 2 beers over 2 hours), went back to the bathroom, started my sources and went to my seat. Recorded a great performance. Mix sounded superb and the AUD was awesome. Long drive back home - got back at 3AM, up at 7, took kids to school, went to work, crashed at night. But I almost got popped at the door and I've been doing this a long time.

A week later, went to the Pine Knob or DTE (Michigan) as it is referred to now. My best buddy came from NY for the show. No problem with security as we have connections locally. We had row 7 tickets - closest I have ever been to Tool. Great performance. Thing is, saw bomb sniffing dogs, armed cops inside the venue (never see that @ DTE) and the 'security' were checking people out if they had pulled out their phone. Intense stuff. Keep in mind, these were events just a week + from the Ariana Grande performance in Manchester, England.

Since the Manchester attack, I have noticed a very real change. To all the tapers out there, keep on doing what you want but know that your hobby is now significantly harder. If you are not feeling it now, great, I hope that you never do. But the music business is a business. Businesses want to sell whatever product they offer in order to make money. That is the bottom line. Tapers are lower level annoyances in the eyes of many bands, Tool included, and until now getting your gear inside hasn't had to be like breaking into a bank. There are now several items in use that venues and promoters have at their disposal to use. Yes, they are for weapons and whatnot but some of this newer implemented technology will pick up whatever equipment you are attempting to covertly bring in.

In October 2017, the night of the Las Vegas shooting, I took my eldest to see Paul McCartney in Detroit, MI. So it was me and my son going through metal-detector-airport-security-style for McCartney. None of this would've rang off bells even two years back. He gets through obviously fine, I had DAT, scanner, IEM box, wires, headphones, microphones... taping stuff with me. I had several security staff come to me, wands, another pat-down. I make it through of course because hey I am with my kid right but for those that maybe are not as well prepared... good luck.  At that McCartney show, I saw bomb sniffing dogs inside and outside the venue, unmarked security personal blending as attendees, armed police and at least one policeman w/what looked to me like an AK-47. But I don't know for sure. If I had my way, every American would have health insurance and people could have guns only if they passed yearly competency tests. So what do I know?

Maybe I am older, which I am, but the thing with taping these days is that I am glad I do maybe 90% of it remotely so I do not have to even worry about security anymore. Things are definitely different these days with taping.
Things have changed.

And I'm not just talking about the dumpster fire that is the United States White House under President Trump.

You said it exactly. We (tapers) tend to forget that not everyone is aware of what a preamp is and stuff, so it DOES look very suspicious when they find it.  I was stopped at a Mike & The Mechanics show in ATL ... as during the pat down he felt my mic cables. I tried to make up some BS but to no avail, it was a no-go for me. So we went to the car, left everything and I used an iPhone w/ one of those Shure iOS mics. Of course, since they had already caught me once, the second pat down was as close to a sexual act as one can get without being bought dinner first.

I actually had a "friend" call me chicken, paranoid ... whatever (like I give two shits his opinion) and he brags about how he has no issues. All I know, is that this IS getting tougher.  I miss the old days, but what can we do? It's the world we live in.  So my new setup is just a small recorder (Zoom F1) and a set of small mics and I use the mic-power instead of a battery box. This is about as compact as I can get unless I go with some sort of internal mic or using the iPhone thingy.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 06:49:49 PM by obsidian »

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2018, 08:02:32 PM »
Hopefully using a cell phone as a recorder will soon become as easy and reliable as using a dedicated recorder.  Once that happens (I'm confident it's only a matter of time), that will be one less piece of gear to sneak in since EVERYONE brings in cell phones.  (While some shows are trying to keep people from having their phones, those seem to be few and far between.)

I spoke to one of the Security Personnel at a venue in ATL and they are going to start using this ...

https://www.overyondr.com/

So, for people that have dealt with these, how does the entrance process work? If I pull a phone out of my pocket it goes in? What if I say no? Would they make me put in Munich iPod and other devices as well?
Mics: Berliner CM-33, CA-14 card, CA-11 card & omni, AT-853, Sony ECM-907
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-05, Sony Hi-MD

obsidian

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2018, 08:16:47 PM »
Hopefully using a cell phone as a recorder will soon become as easy and reliable as using a dedicated recorder.  Once that happens (I'm confident it's only a matter of time), that will be one less piece of gear to sneak in since EVERYONE brings in cell phones.  (While some shows are trying to keep people from having their phones, those seem to be few and far between.)

I spoke to one of the Security Personnel at a venue in ATL and they are going to start using this ...

https://www.overyondr.com/

So, for people that have dealt with these, how does the entrance process work? If I pull a phone out of my pocket it goes in? What if I say no? Would they make me put in Munich iPod and other devices as well?

I'm curious as well. The security guy I spoke to said that the number one complaint that they dealt with was people complaining about the person in front of them blocking their view by holding up their cell phone. It has become an annoyance for sure, and inadvertently it made it tougher on us tapers.

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2018, 08:23:12 PM »
Hopefully using a cell phone as a recorder will soon become as easy and reliable as using a dedicated recorder.  Once that happens (I'm confident it's only a matter of time), that will be one less piece of gear to sneak in since EVERYONE brings in cell phones.  (While some shows are trying to keep people from having their phones, those seem to be few and far between.)

I spoke to one of the Security Personnel at a venue in ATL and they are going to start using this ...

https://www.overyondr.com/

So, for people that have dealt with these, how does the entrance process work? If I pull a phone out of my pocket it goes in? What if I say no? Would they make me put in Munich iPod and other devices as well?

I'm curious as well. The security guy I spoke to said that the number one complaint that they dealt with was people complaining about the person in front of them blocking their view by holding up their cell phone. It has become an annoyance for sure, and inadvertently it made it tougher on us tapers.

I’m mostly curious if this is an “all electronics in the bag or you’re not going in” sort of situation
Mics: Berliner CM-33, CA-14 card, CA-11 card & omni, AT-853, Sony ECM-907
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-05, Sony Hi-MD

Offline Galen

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2018, 11:44:00 PM »
Actually, the fact that everyone has a source of electronic light which they flick on/off is something I have found extremely helpful when I do participate in a stealth AUD recording. I remember in 2004 at a Pigmy Love Circus concert security grabbed my shoulder and asked what I was looking at (was a recorder, grabbed my cell phone to show him). He walked away. And in case you were wondering why anyone would care about an AUD recording of Pigmy Love Circus is because Danny Carey of Tool plays/ed drums and he like Tool very anti-taping or capturing of the music they create live (air-quotes). Really, the amount of artificial light at concerts is helpful to melt into the crowd when you need to look at levels. You can still stealth record even with the heightened awareness which is well founded for the most part. Always best to get equipped up in the bathroom -if you are at a large venue always go for the family bathroom, total privacy- and then have everything set to record by doing minimal actions when you are in with the crowd.
http://www.collectiveunconscious.org/

Recorders:
Sony PCM-M1 (Oade Mod II) x 2, Sony PCM-M1 (stock) x 1
Casio DA-R100 (1991 model, only used when able to use DC)
Edirol R-09
Tascam DA-R40
Sony MD RZ700 (retired)
Sharp MD MT-180 (retired)

Microphones:
Nakamichi CM-300, omni (Stealth/non-mod, my father's originals from 1978)
DPA 4061 > MPS6030
Aiwa CM-30
Core Sound Binauarals
Soundman OKMII-R
Marantz EM-8
SEN G2/3
Shure P10R (470-698)
Icom RX7

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2018, 01:34:48 AM »

A week later, went to the Pine Knob or DTE (Michigan) as it is referred to now. My best buddy came from NY for the show. No problem with security as we have connections locally. We had row 7 tickets - closest I have ever been to Tool. Great performance. Thing is, saw bomb sniffing dogs, armed cops inside the venue (never see that @ DTE) and the 'security' were checking people out if they had pulled out their phone. Intense stuff. Keep in mind, these were events just a week + from the Ariana Grande performance in Manchester, England.

Since the Manchester attack, I have noticed a very real change. To all the tapers out there, keep on doing what you want but know that your hobby is now significantly harder. If you are not feeling it now, great, I hope that you never do. But the music business is a business. Businesses want to sell whatever product they offer in order to make money. That is the bottom line. Tapers are lower level annoyances in the eyes of many bands, Tool included, and until now getting your gear inside hasn't had to be like breaking into a bank. There are now several items in use that venues and promoters have at their disposal to use. Yes, they are for weapons and whatnot but some of this newer implemented technology will pick up whatever equipment you are attempting to covertly bring in.

I was in London having recorded Eric Clapton at the Royal Albert Hall with Scooter123 the night of Manchester.  We had 2 more shows and had people telling us it wasn't worth it.  We put together a plan and STILL got in unsearched the next 2 nights.  There are ways to get gear past security.  It just takes ingenuity, practice and maintaining one's composure.   Aside from the security issues getting gear in and the see something, say something mentality it is actually much easier to record these days.  Gear much smaller, never a need to swap batteries/media and lots of lights due to phones.  Back in the day (many of us on here remember the days) when we had to tape over all lights on the recorders because a red light spotted from above was an indication of a taper.  Venues also made more of a point to look for tapers, now they have bigger concerns.

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2018, 11:25:18 AM »
If you get caught inside a venue taping with an audience rig or IEM packs, you will be brought to security, questioned by police and if you are lucky, escorted out of the building. Your gear is a crap shoot.  ***You might get it back, might not. ***


re: gear

***UNLESS YOU ARE A FOOL***, this is 100% incorrect.

they can keep your media and/or batteries (disposable), anything else would fall under "theft".


and if over $500 in value, in most states, felony theft.






shame on those who spread misinformation.
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people who are fans of the music, they LOVE what I document and capture...people who are fans of themselves....not so much.

Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2018, 11:28:45 AM »


IEM tapers seem to be a very secretive bunch, but from the ones I've interacted with, it appears most tape from outside the arena. Once had a dude send me a photo of his rig in the trunk of his car. Had a full rack of receivers/recorders/antennas. Was pretty impressive...


yes, they are.

a group of 20 or so who own every wireless box known/used onstage.

they mail them to each other, and trade the recordings only amongst themselves.

I know 3 of them  (JJ, BD, and a 3rd who shall remain 'initial-less')....and have occasionally pried loose a show or two...problem is that IEM's are (were? haven't requested one in over 10 years) are pretty unreliable over the course of a 2 hour show.

numerous dropouts/level fluctuations.


and yes, the early guys were recording in the parking lot straight to S-VHS.
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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2018, 11:29:34 AM »
Where do these IEM recordings circulate?  Dime? I don't think I've ever heard one.


they don't.

they circulate amongst themselves.

U2 and Def Leppard are 2 of the biggies.
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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2018, 11:33:52 AM »
obsidian...

Yes, I have been talking to people and I feel the exact same way. Venues where up to the end of 2016 you could walk right into with your taping stuff 'recording and geared-up' with zero security at the door now have metal detectors, wands, pat downs and a sense of a take no shit attitude by staff. I was at The 1975 in Detroit the night of the Manchester attack @ Ariana Grande show and first I heard of it was when Matt Healy spoke about it after 'Change of Heart'. That show really had some intense energy from the band. They are from Manchester and it hit home for them, you could hear it.

A few days later I drove many hours to Hamilton, Ontario about a year ago to see Tool. To note, I did record IEM of this and had to physically go below the ground into the parking deck to figure out the signal during soundcheck then got promptly kicked out of that area by security. Anyway. Getting into the venue, I had 1 (DAT Sony M1), 1 RF box, plugs + headphones, DPA 4061 + battery box, and a Sony M10. First security sent me to second level security where a cop watched a higher-trained person do the check on me...gave my cover story, made it in. They wanded me and I got felt by security... I had a lot of stuff to sneak in. Helps when you are closer to 40 than 20. Went to a family bathroom and got my stuff organized then went to a bar inside the venue where I stayed until ~10 minutes before the show started (had 2 beers over 2 hours), went back to the bathroom, started my sources and went to my seat. Recorded a great performance. Mix sounded superb and the AUD was awesome. Long drive back home - got back at 3AM, up at 7, took kids to school, went to work, crashed at night. But I almost got popped at the door and I've been doing this a long time.

A week later, went to the Pine Knob or DTE (Michigan) as it is referred to now. My best buddy came from NY for the show. No problem with security as we have connections locally. We had row 7 tickets - closest I have ever been to Tool. Great performance. Thing is, saw bomb sniffing dogs, armed cops inside the venue (never see that @ DTE) and the 'security' were checking people out if they had pulled out their phone. Intense stuff. Keep in mind, these were events just a week + from the Ariana Grande performance in Manchester, England.

Since the Manchester attack, I have noticed a very real change. To all the tapers out there, keep on doing what you want but know that your hobby is now significantly harder. If you are not feeling it now, great, I hope that you never do. But the music business is a business. Businesses want to sell whatever product they offer in order to make money. That is the bottom line. Tapers are lower level annoyances in the eyes of many bands, Tool included, and until now getting your gear inside hasn't had to be like breaking into a bank. There are now several items in use that venues and promoters have at their disposal to use. Yes, they are for weapons and whatnot but some of this newer implemented technology will pick up whatever equipment you are attempting to covertly bring in.

In October 2017, the night of the Las Vegas shooting, I took my eldest to see Paul McCartney in Detroit, MI. So it was me and my son going through metal-detector-airport-security-style for McCartney. None of this would've rang off bells even two years back. He gets through obviously fine, I had DAT, scanner, IEM box, wires, headphones, microphones... taping stuff with me. I had several security staff come to me, wands, another pat-down. I make it through of course because hey I am with my kid right but for those that maybe are not as well prepared... good luck.  At that McCartney show, I saw bomb sniffing dogs inside and outside the venue, unmarked security personal blending as attendees, armed police and at least one policeman w/what looked to me like an AK-47. But I don't know for sure. If I had my way, every American would have health insurance and people could have guns only if they passed yearly competency tests. So what do I know?

Maybe I am older, which I am, but the thing with taping these days is that I am glad I do maybe 90% of it remotely so I do not have to even worry about security anymore. Things are definitely different these days with taping.
Things have changed.

And I'm not just talking about the dumpster fire that is the United States White House under President Trump.


last year, late April, RHCP and Soundgarden at Amalie Arena in Tampa (all day radio fest), got 2 decks, mics and a vidcam in thru walk-thru metal detectors and wands...easily at that....plus all the usual stuff (phone, keys, Nicorette gum, etc...)


and it seems *easier* this year, even with the metal detectors.


about to go catch show #20 in the last 12 days.


and all have been recorded.
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people who are fans of the music, they LOVE what I document and capture...people who are fans of themselves....not so much.

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2018, 12:10:00 PM »
If you get caught inside a venue taping with an audience rig or IEM packs, you will be brought to security, questioned by police and if you are lucky, escorted out of the building. Your gear is a crap shoot.  ***You might get it back, might not. ***


re: gear

***UNLESS YOU ARE A FOOL***, this is 100% incorrect.

they can keep your media and/or batteries (disposable), anything else would fall under "theft".


and if over $500 in value, in most states, felony theft.






shame on those who spread misinformation.

So a small time weed grower is giving a senior level attorney legal advice.   :banging head: 

My advice would be to take legal advice from someone who is really a lawyer and not someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and thinks he is a lawyer.

Offline fanofjam

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2018, 03:15:21 PM »
If you get caught inside a venue taping with an audience rig or IEM packs, you will be brought to security, questioned by police and if you are lucky, escorted out of the building. Your gear is a crap shoot.  ***You might get it back, might not. ***


re: gear

***UNLESS YOU ARE A FOOL***, this is 100% incorrect.

they can keep your media and/or batteries (disposable), anything else would fall under "theft".


and if over $500 in value, in most states, felony theft.






shame on those who spread misinformation.

So a small time weed grower is giving a senior level attorney legal advice.   :banging head: 

My advice would be to take legal advice from someone who is really a lawyer and not someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and thinks he is a lawyer.

This subject has been talked about many times during the many years I've been on tapersection.  The general consensus has always been the same and it hasn't changed and I don't think it ever will change.  But it's driven by common sense and gear/self preservation, not the law.

Inside a venue, the law is basically irrelevant when you're faced with a) venue security, or b) police that more than likely won't support any claim you might make to the legality of taping (even if you do have proof).  If the security/cops have you physically detained, and they decide you're not leaving the venue with your gear, then you're not leaving with your gear...PERIOD end of discussion.  In that situation, they've got 100% of the power and you have none. 

That's why the 'best practice' strategy for gear preservation has always been to avoid getting into that situation in the first place.  If you're caught and it looks like a situation might be escalating...don't argue, don't stick around and fight what's highly likely to be a losing battle.  Cut your losses and make tracks.  Get out of the venue ASAP with your gear intact...you've only lost a recording and the price of the ticket.  Your gear isn't worth the risk of STUPIDLY claiming to a cop or security that they're committing a felony by taking your gear. 
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 03:23:28 PM by fanofjam »

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2018, 03:58:26 PM »
The point of arguing with security/cops or not in regards to gear confiscation is a function of the investment in gear.  As stated,  not getting caught is the best course of action.  This means not doing stupid stuff inside the venue like scamming seats, smoking weed in venues where its not allowed or being a drunk idiot.  Most of the times people get caught  >:D taping it is not actually taping but being careless or stupid. 

Offline nak700s

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2018, 05:16:48 PM »
Hopefully using a cell phone as a recorder will soon become as easy and reliable as using a dedicated recorder.  Once that happens (I'm confident it's only a matter of time), that will be one less piece of gear to sneak in since EVERYONE brings in cell phones.  (While some shows are trying to keep people from having their phones, those seem to be few and far between.)

I spoke to one of the Security Personnel at a venue in ATL and they are going to start using this ...

https://www.overyondr.com/

Using a powerful magnet within an inch of your phone...what could possibly go wrong?!
Yes, I've heard of venues trying these out.  I can only imagine the hold-up while exiting a venue when everyone has to stop to free their phone...or better yet, the first time there is a life threatening emergency because a person couldn't be reached on their phone because it was locked up (think baby sitters and elderly family).  There are so many possible problems with these bags, and as much as I don't want them to be used, I also don't want it to be because someone died because they couldn't call 911 or something like that.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Fun times: 3 Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD744T + 2 Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline edtyre

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2018, 05:30:52 PM »
The point of arguing with security/cops or not in regards to gear confiscation is a function of the investment in gear.  As stated,  not getting caught is the best course of action.  This means not doing stupid stuff inside the venue like scamming seats, smoking weed in venues where its not allowed or being a drunk idiot.  Most of the times people get caught  >:D taping it is not actually taping but being careless or stupid.

Yeh, i save my getting high and acting stupid for "open taping" shows
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Offline daspyknows

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2018, 05:37:42 PM »
The point of arguing with security/cops or not in regards to gear confiscation is a function of the investment in gear.  As stated,  not getting caught is the best course of action.  This means not doing stupid stuff inside the venue like scamming seats, smoking weed in venues where its not allowed or being a drunk idiot.  Most of the times people get caught  >:D taping it is not actually taping but being careless or stupid.

Yeh, i save my getting high and acting stupid for "open taping" shows

Ed, I don't see you as the acting stupid type of taper  ;D

Offline nak700s

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2018, 06:15:39 PM »
As clearly stated above, which is as true as the day is long, if they got you, they got you...so be respectful and cut your losses.  Respect goes a long way to walking out with undamaged gear, or any gear at all.  If you have to give up "tapes & batteries", just do it, look sad and remorseful and pray they allow you to stay for the rest of the show.  If they want your gear, nicely tell them that you're not comfortable with that and it isn't like you can use it without the power or media.  They may even give you the option to put it in your car and come back inside... this has happened to me more than once.
Again, like stated above, the law doesn't matter once you got caught.  They know it, you know it, but they still have ALL the power, and will back each other up.  That said, be smart.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Fun times: 3 Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD744T + 2 Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2018, 06:30:11 PM »
Where do these IEM recordings circulate?  Dime? I don't think I've ever heard one.


they don't.

they circulate amongst themselves.

There's a fair amount on Dime, but that's kinda the impression I got as well. Managed to trade for one from a show I was at a few years ago, but that's the closest I've ever gotten...
Mics: Berliner CM-33, CA-14 card, CA-11 card & omni, AT-853, Sony ECM-907
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-05, Sony Hi-MD

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2018, 06:51:28 PM »
Where do these IEM recordings circulate?  Dime? I don't think I've ever heard one.


they don't.

they circulate amongst themselves.

There's a fair amount on Dime, but that's kinda the impression I got as well. Managed to trade for one from a show I was at a few years ago, but that's the closest I've ever gotten...

I have a bunch from a few unnamed IEM tapers.  I would only share what they have released into the wild themselves.  I have also sat in a car with one of the IEM tapers listening to the show live on the car stereo.  It was a show I wasn't planning on attending and was more of a social visit.  Any comment about dropouts and stuff is utter BS.  If you are running the right gear and picking up multiple channels with the right frequencies and know what you are doing in post production the results are quite spectacular.  Only thing missing is a clean audience source to provide and ambient sound to the final product. 

As with audience tapers there are those that do it right and those that fluff their garbage.  Some of the "bootleg" releases on Dime are crap, with click tracks and other artifacts.   Those who do it right don't have to tell everyone how great their recordings sound. 

Offline edtyre

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2018, 08:48:23 PM »
  Those who do it right don't have to tell everyone how great their recordings sound.

Amen, brother!
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Offline Galen

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2018, 09:57:16 PM »
Let us take note here... someone said something about click/track - that is something which is either IN the mix or it is NOT IN the mix. You cannot control that whatsoever. I know a couple people will actually do their best to edit that out of IEM recordings but, uh, no way would I ever spend the amount of time to do that. And you cannot fully get it out. The more you mess with a recording the more it sounds... messed with.

I can hit a show and record like 4-5 mixes on average (always picking the best ones that sound most balanced but not all IEMs do). Remember, IEM's are tools for the musicians. Do I sit and spend the time to mix all that together in post to try and create something better than the original? Nope. But it is cool to see what one can record, record the best mixes. Sometimes if I have a couple extra minutes I will run Y adapters and do 'real time matrix' recordings of selected mixes and create cool mixes that way. But I rarely do anything in Post besides getting it ready for a CD (if I want to listen to it in my truck). The people who think IEM's are all laden with drop-outs, static and all sorts of annoying artifacts are... wait for it... correct. You can get to a show, be there for soundcheck but then get all sorts of interference from the physical members of the audience messing with the RF and your signal. Sometimes you have issues with brand-specific issues particularly if the antenna is too close (I know, it seems counterintuitive). Even if you are quite close. It is not a perfect science and anyone who conveys that it is definitely believes that the Earth is flat. But for the overwhelmingly most part, there is a night/day difference between RF/IEM vs just an AUD tape. These days, if I walk into a show with an AUD recording setup either they do not use IEM or I have multiple sources already recording.

I've seen this myth pop up quite a bit in discussion regarding IEM tapers. That there is a click. That there are several people who ship equipment to one another from this city to another. This, I will say, has happened and I have been on the receiving end of this a few times. But I am not involved in any sort of group. I am sure that people do this, for sure, but is that the norm? What is the norm? Beats me. I do not think that there is a secret society of IEM tapers who keep lock and stock on stuff. It's a great conspiracy related idea but I don't believe it is grounded in reality. I am the only RF taper I've met in person. I know several via the Internet - primarily one who shall not be named - is a lovely dude who knows his shit more than anyone. The dude is a Saint. But where are the others? I'm really curious how many other lone-wolf's are out there for RF taping? I don't want to trade with you, I don't want your recording (I have enough of my own to deal with), I just want to swap set ups and ideas. But I have yet to see a mafia militia of IEM tapers.

Taping, been doing this for 20 years. My first wireless was an ALD @ Red Hot Chili Peppers w/Queens of the Stone Age back in 2003. Since 2005 I've been focused pretty much exclusively on wireless. For fun, a couple samples for those that care or are interested. The Adele sample, I hit two nights in a row in Auburn Hills, MI. You hear the click track? That is her mix. It is to help keep her time. You cannot degrade the mix because the musician uses the metronome as it is to be used (I was quite far from the stage for these, like a football field+ length but they had a ton of transmitters for those shows. The Elbow show, Guy Garvey does not use metronome but good god what a great mix you know? Tool... they had two transmitters but only one person benefiting from it. Kind of a good standard for quality.

Lots of time, lots of practice, lots of money and lots of enjoyment. I realized 15 years ago that my taping flame would burn out if I didn't evolve. It hasn't and I did. My kids now come to shows with me and are 'in' with taping and understand what it is about.

Adele - recorded exterior
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wK81JZ0-UekL_iX3NdoWQP-ZvimE8QL_/view?usp=drive_web

Elbow - recorded exterior
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OVYUXu6Dz7XhQG8w9sB4c4WB5eFvPdHN/view?usp=drive_web

Tool - recorded stealth, inside
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tG65KNSEICQK-XAsZ9LJrYs122pZ8y8B/view?usp=drive_web
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 10:01:10 PM by Galen »
http://www.collectiveunconscious.org/

Recorders:
Sony PCM-M1 (Oade Mod II) x 2, Sony PCM-M1 (stock) x 1
Casio DA-R100 (1991 model, only used when able to use DC)
Edirol R-09
Tascam DA-R40
Sony MD RZ700 (retired)
Sharp MD MT-180 (retired)

Microphones:
Nakamichi CM-300, omni (Stealth/non-mod, my father's originals from 1978)
DPA 4061 > MPS6030
Aiwa CM-30
Core Sound Binauarals
Soundman OKMII-R
Marantz EM-8
SEN G2/3
Shure P10R (470-698)
Icom RX7

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2018, 11:34:10 PM »
I do know a couple of them myself.  Most everything that has been shared with me does not have dropouts, click tracks, static or other artifacts.  This taper spends quite a bit of time in post production so his approach may be a bit different.  It may also be on some feeds and not others.  On a few cases I have run feeds for him but in all honesty, I prefer running audience recordings.  I agree there is a night and day difference in the sound between the two approaches and IMHO the best case a matrix of both sources mixed correctly.

U2 uses the metronome but it is not on all of the feeds.  I heard a few that were bootlegged out of Japan that have it and it was not an enjoyable listen.  The ones that my friend has done do not have that and have been recorded from both inside and outside the venue.  Over the years I have crossed paths with half a dozen tapers who run IEM's and they all know each other (and share gear).  Not all currently active at it, but a few still are.  I am curious where the primary one who shall not be named is located and whether he is one of the ones I know. 

Offline Galen

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2018, 12:21:16 AM »
I am guessing by your name, daspyknows, that folks you know are on the West Coast-ish of the USA. I also guess that we are both talking about the same person. I would bet a dozen cats on it. I've rapped with a few from that geographic area as well but that's about it other than some scanner peeps from across the States but I have yet to meet someone who does what a few people I have interacted with do as well as myself. Just curious. U2 has a whole bunch of feeds and maybe 50% of them have metronome - I only taped this band once back in 2011 so outdated info applies. You have the band (x4), the engineers (x2), guitar/vocal/bass/drum tech (x4 maybe more w/or w/o click) and maybe additional for a guest. Or you have a band like A Perfect Circle who have five people on stage and have like 12 mixes ok well kind of like U2 now that I write that.

I get why people say they want the ambience of an AUD recording to make it sound 'whole' but on the other hand every person that has said that is an AUD recording taper. Personally, I massively prefer the isolation of a live IEM/RF recording... like listening to a Westwood One radio broadcast back in the day. Only better, because you pulled it.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 12:40:08 AM by Galen »
http://www.collectiveunconscious.org/

Recorders:
Sony PCM-M1 (Oade Mod II) x 2, Sony PCM-M1 (stock) x 1
Casio DA-R100 (1991 model, only used when able to use DC)
Edirol R-09
Tascam DA-R40
Sony MD RZ700 (retired)
Sharp MD MT-180 (retired)

Microphones:
Nakamichi CM-300, omni (Stealth/non-mod, my father's originals from 1978)
DPA 4061 > MPS6030
Aiwa CM-30
Core Sound Binauarals
Soundman OKMII-R
Marantz EM-8
SEN G2/3
Shure P10R (470-698)
Icom RX7

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #49 on: May 08, 2018, 12:53:35 AM »
I am guessing by your name, daspyknows, that folks you know are on the West Coast-ish of the USA. I also guess that we are both talking about the same person. I would bet a dozen cats on it. I've rapped with a few from that geographic area as well but that's about it other than some scanner peeps from across the States but I have yet to meet someone who does what a few people I have interacted with do as well as myself. Just curious. U2 has a whole bunch of feeds and maybe 50% of them have metronome - I only taped this band once back in 2011 so outdated info applies. You have the band (x4), the engineers (x2), guitar/vocal/bass/drum tech (x4 maybe more w/or w/o click) and maybe additional for a guest. Or you have a band like A Perfect Circle who have five people on stage and have like 12 mixes ok well kind of like U2 now that I write that.

I get why people say they want the ambience of an AUD recording to make it sound 'whole' but on the other hand every person that has said that is an AUD recording taper. Personally, I massively prefer the isolation of a live IEM/RF recording... like listening to a Westwood One radio broadcast back in the day. Only better, because you pulled it.

I figured we were referring to the same person.  He is busy tonight.  He also wants the audience feed to mix in btw and is not an audience taper.  Funny you bring up Westwood One radio broadcasts.  The pre-broadcast recordings of those are really nice.   Been listening to a bunch of those recently. 


Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2018, 04:39:59 AM »
If you get caught inside a venue taping with an audience rig or IEM packs, you will be brought to security, questioned by police and if you are lucky, escorted out of the building. Your gear is a crap shoot.  ***You might get it back, might not. ***


re: gear

***UNLESS YOU ARE A FOOL***, this is 100% incorrect.

they can keep your media and/or batteries (disposable), anything else would fall under "theft".


and if over $500 in value, in most states, felony theft.






shame on those who spread misinformation.

So a small time weed grower is giving a senior level attorney legal advice.   :banging head: 

My advice would be to take legal advice from someone who is really a lawyer and not someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and thinks he is a lawyer.

ooooh, a "senior legal attorney"....in which field does this individal specialize?

like, a "senior divorce attorney", or a "senior environmental attorney", or a "senior malpractice attorney" ain't gonna know two shits about what I *know* I'm talking about (or, when you've taped in 40 of the 50 states, you're a little more aware of your surroundings and laws, like radar detectors being illegal in VA, etc...)

not to mention lawyers usually lie when they open their mouth, and they drill holes in their coffins so the worms can crawl out.

I *know* it bums you out that I'm not only intelligent, but correct as well, so get over yourself already


misdemeanor theft: under $500

felony theft: over $500


I grew up around lawyers, bankers, doctors and dentists in duck camp, fish camp and moose camp....from age 6 on.

a much more rounded education than I'm sure you had.

or yeah, I had an actual dad who spent time with me vs. someone like you who had to send your kid off to wilderness camp to "straighten him out".


or, the opinion of a 'father of the year' such as yourself really means nothing.


again, ***the police nor the venue can seize anything of value that belongs to you***, unless it's of the weaponized variety (to use as evidence), which is an entirely different talk show. (or, nothing to do with taping gear)

ferfucksake
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Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2018, 04:44:22 AM »

I've seen this myth pop up quite a bit in discussion regarding IEM tapers. That there is a click. That there are several people who ship equipment to one another from this city to another. This, I will say, has happened and I have been on the receiving end of this a few times. But I am not involved in any sort of group. I am sure that people do this, for sure, but is that the norm? What is the norm? Beats me. I do not think that there is a secret society of IEM tapers who keep lock and stock on stuff.


you're not the "3rd initial-less" person in the 'circle', yes, they DO exist, to the tune that they don't even have their own board/server to share the stuff, but instead the mail the 0's and 1's with the boxes.

I've seen the lists. and the wireless boxes. the two I mentioned, one lives in Calfornia, the other near DC.  met them both, more than once.

the clique is real, but really, who the fuck wants a bunch of "awesome sounding Def Leppard and U2" anyways? (or Prince and Springsteen, another 2 'big' artists collected by them)

certain Prince shows I could find interesting, but the other three....?


#notme
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Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #52 on: May 08, 2018, 04:46:15 AM »
  Get out of the venue ASAP with your gear intact...you've only lost a recording and the price of the ticket.  Your gear isn't worth the risk of STUPIDLY claiming to a cop or security that they're committing a felony by taking your gear.

Jesus fucking Christ, how dense can one be?


NO, you don't "cause a scene" at the venue at all.

you merely say "before you walk off with that gear, I'd like you to speak to my attorney"


or do you folks panic at the instant?
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Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #53 on: May 08, 2018, 04:48:58 AM »

I have a bunch from a few unnamed IEM tapers.  I would only share what they have released into the wild themselves.  I have also sat in a car with one of the IEM tapers listening to the show live on the car stereo.  It was a show I wasn't planning on attending and was more of a social visit.  Any comment about dropouts and stuff is utter BS.  If you are running the right gear and picking up multiple channels with the right frequencies and know what you are doing in post production the results are quite spectacular.  Only thing missing is a clean audience source to provide and ambient sound to the final product. 

As with audience tapers there are those that do it right and those that fluff their garbage.  Some of the "bootleg" releases on Dime are crap, with click tracks and other artifacts.   Those who do it right don't have to tell everyone how great their recordings sound.

um, all IEM's have the click track.

now if these folks are tapping into the ALD's...that's an entirely different (sans click-track) talk show.

not that I'd expect a faux-taper like you to know the difference.
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Offline jagraham

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #54 on: May 08, 2018, 02:00:58 PM »
As far as having gear confiscated in a venue goes, it seems like it would be pretty simple to avoid regardless of your rights and security's rights. I'm simply leaving before I'm being led into any private/closed area of any venue. "Oh, didn't know this wasn't allowed, I'll go ahead and leave". Not sure there's really much they can do to you if you go this route. They will have to forcibly detain me in front of other patrons if they must take my equipment.
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Recorders: Tascam DR-70D, DR-2D, Edirol R-09

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #55 on: May 08, 2018, 03:25:07 PM »
Isn't the trick to offer security and the cops crappy Alaskan cabbage?  They will surely let you go.

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #56 on: May 08, 2018, 04:32:03 PM »
not that I'd expect a faux-taper like you to know the difference.

DNFTT

Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
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Offline Galen

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #57 on: May 09, 2018, 01:31:01 AM »
Just going to toss this in here: there is not a secret IEM 'clique' of people who have a current pulse on everything or quasi-current. That is a misinformed or aligned perception of reality. Yes, absolutely, there are people who talk to one another and record shows in certain manners and, yes, some of them may have or do on occasion share equipment. All that sounds more like friends interacting over a hobby. Have yet to see evidence of such an idea turn to reality. My point on that aspect is that if there are people who are reliant on others gear then this aspect of the hobby is not for them as it is, notably, somewhat cost conscious at best.

If a clique involves only U2 and Def Leppard fans... well, honestly, I really do like both those bands. I saw Def Leppard back in 1996 in Charlevoix, MI in fact I worked that show cooking hot dogs. Got to watch the majority of the show as the grill closed early. Was very very cool. Tripping Daisy opened. Didn't tape but Tim DeLaughter signed my TDaisy tee shirt.

Further, furburger, your statement that all IEM's have click track is 100% incorrect. I can provide factual evidence time and time again based from recording I made which dispute your assertion. Zero shade, 100% accurate information.

This thread was intended, intended, to be something that was of interest to those that had interest in this specific subject area. Would be really cool if we could jump back to the time a few days ago when that was a possibility. Thank you.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 01:40:05 AM by Galen »
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Recorders:
Sony PCM-M1 (Oade Mod II) x 2, Sony PCM-M1 (stock) x 1
Casio DA-R100 (1991 model, only used when able to use DC)
Edirol R-09
Tascam DA-R40
Sony MD RZ700 (retired)
Sharp MD MT-180 (retired)

Microphones:
Nakamichi CM-300, omni (Stealth/non-mod, my father's originals from 1978)
DPA 4061 > MPS6030
Aiwa CM-30
Core Sound Binauarals
Soundman OKMII-R
Marantz EM-8
SEN G2/3
Shure P10R (470-698)
Icom RX7

Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #58 on: May 09, 2018, 03:50:27 AM »
Isn't the trick to offer security and the cops crappy Alaskan cabbage?  They will surely let you go.


no, that's to make people like you stfu at the show.

the best was a Pub Crawl in my early 20's in Hawaii when I went to the Pro Bowl ('94)....these college prep doofuses would sell you this "spaghetti dinner and a bus to 5 bars" thing on the sidewalk, and show you group photos of 80 hotties and 20 dudes...of course, when you got there to the first bar where dinner was, it was 80 dudes and 20 chicks.

anyhow, just like a lot of you folks  here, they were all "oh, we smoke Hawaiian, your Alaskan ain't shit". (oh, we have spendy mics, so your recordings ain't shit)


longer story short, I sent 4 of the 6 of them home puking less than 2 hours later, ***because they couldn't handle it.***


you could learn from this maybe.....then again, nah, probably not.
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people who are fans of the music, they LOVE what I document and capture...people who are fans of themselves....not so much.

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #59 on: May 09, 2018, 03:51:33 AM »
Just going to toss this in here: there is not a secret IEM 'clique' of people who have a current pulse on everything or quasi-current. That is a misinformed or aligned perception of reality. Yes, absolutely, there are people who talk to one another and record shows in certain manners and, yes, some of them may have or do on occasion share equipment. All that sounds more like friends interacting over a hobby. Have yet to see evidence of such an idea turn to reality. My point on that aspect is that if there are people who are reliant on others gear then this aspect of the hobby is not for them as it is, notably, somewhat cost conscious at best.

If a clique involves only U2 and Def Leppard fans... well, honestly, I really do like both those bands. I saw Def Leppard back in 1996 in Charlevoix, MI in fact I worked that show cooking hot dogs. Got to watch the majority of the show as the grill closed early. Was very very cool. Tripping Daisy opened. Didn't tape but Tim DeLaughter signed my TDaisy tee shirt.

Further, furburger, your statement that all IEM's have click track is 100% incorrect. I can provide factual evidence time and time again based from recording I made which dispute your assertion. Zero shade, 100% accurate information.

This thread was intended, intended, to be something that was of interest to those that had interest in this specific subject area. Would be really cool if we could jump back to the time a few days ago when that was a possibility. Thank you.
-------------
people who are fans of the music, they LOVE what I document and capture...people who are fans of themselves....not so much.

Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #60 on: May 09, 2018, 03:55:07 AM »
Just going to toss this in here: there is not a secret IEM 'clique' of people who have a current pulse on everything or quasi-current. That is a misinformed or aligned perception of reality. Yes, absolutely, there are people who talk to one another and record shows in certain manners and, yes, some of them may have or do on occasion share equipment. All that sounds more like friends interacting over a hobby. Have yet to see evidence of such an idea turn to reality. My point on that aspect is that if there are people who are reliant on others gear then this aspect of the hobby is not for them as it is, notably, somewhat cost conscious at best.

If a clique involves only U2 and Def Leppard fans... well, honestly, I really do like both those bands. I saw Def Leppard back in 1996 in Charlevoix, MI in fact I worked that show cooking hot dogs. Got to watch the majority of the show as the grill closed early. Was very very cool. Tripping Daisy opened. Didn't tape but Tim DeLaughter signed my TDaisy tee shirt.

Further, furburger, your statement that all IEM's have click track is 100% incorrect. I can provide factual evidence time and time again based from recording I made which dispute your assertion. Zero shade, 100% accurate information.

This thread was intended, intended, to be something that was of interest to those that had interest in this specific subject area. Would be really cool if we could jump back to the time a few days ago when that was a possibility. Thank you.


yeah, "don't talk about Fight Club".

yes, the clique exists.

yes, they own every wireless box used onstage.

yes, they mail the boxes to each other to capture entire tours

yes, they don't torrent their recordings

and yes, they record bands I have no interest in whatsoever.


was made aware of them in 1999 (Kurt Vogel was one of them, but he 'retired' a couple years later, I have his Sabbath San Jose '99 and Pearl Jam St. Louis '98 ones); he isn't the 3rd "intital-less" person either (I promised that individual that I'd never reveal anything about them)


all of that is on topic.

and it's all 100% true.


I'm used to it being implied that I'm a liar, but I have nothing to gain by doing so.

do with that what you will.
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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #61 on: May 09, 2018, 09:26:14 AM »
Isn't the trick to offer security and the cops crappy Alaskan cabbage?  They will surely let you go.


no, that's to make people like you stfu at the show.

the best was a Pub Crawl in my early 20's in Hawaii when I went to the Pro Bowl ('94)....these college prep doofuses would sell you this "spaghetti dinner and a bus to 5 bars" thing on the sidewalk, and show you group photos of 80 hotties and 20 dudes...of course, when you got there to the first bar where dinner was, it was 80 dudes and 20 chicks.

anyhow, just like a lot of you folks  here, they were all "oh, we smoke Hawaiian, your Alaskan ain't shit". (oh, we have spendy mics, so your recordings ain't shit)


longer story short, I sent 4 of the 6 of them home puking less than 2 hours later, ***because they couldn't handle it.***


you could learn from this maybe.....then again, nah, probably not.

Sorry dude,  your mental illness strikes again.

What are the Symptoms?
Monopolizing conversations? Feelings of entitlement? Belittling others? These are all classic signs of narcissistic personality disorder. Do you know of someone who knows the “right” way and all other ways are wrong? Are they cocky, lack empathy, and think they are largely important? Then it’s possible they might be suffering from this condition.


 I don't talk to asshats like you at shows and would pass on smoking something you passed my way.  I might catch something.

Offline DATBoy

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #62 on: May 09, 2018, 10:01:58 PM »
I don't mean to inject myself in this topic, but I've lurked here for a long while before being an actual member. One thing I've noticed is that every time this very topic gets discussed around here, it turns nasty.

Anyway, that's all I got to say. Just a quick observation.

Offline Galen

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2018, 12:07:54 AM »
Yeah, agree with DATboy. This turned nasty. For little reason. Can we please ignore the smoke and get to the topic?

As far as I can tell for anyone who has posted on this topic in this thread thus far - I am the only active wireless taper out there not part of a non-existent clique? Radio silence? Would be great to have some others chime in or if not contact via PM if that is safer for you. I do not want anything from anyone, just trying to explore this issue further. To rehash, where are the other people who pull multiple sources per show (i.e.: mixes), multiple boxes, multiple recorders and sweet results?
http://www.collectiveunconscious.org/

Recorders:
Sony PCM-M1 (Oade Mod II) x 2, Sony PCM-M1 (stock) x 1
Casio DA-R100 (1991 model, only used when able to use DC)
Edirol R-09
Tascam DA-R40
Sony MD RZ700 (retired)
Sharp MD MT-180 (retired)

Microphones:
Nakamichi CM-300, omni (Stealth/non-mod, my father's originals from 1978)
DPA 4061 > MPS6030
Aiwa CM-30
Core Sound Binauarals
Soundman OKMII-R
Marantz EM-8
SEN G2/3
Shure P10R (470-698)
Icom RX7

Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2018, 04:18:20 AM »
Isn't the trick to offer security and the cops crappy Alaskan cabbage?  They will surely let you go.


no, that's to make people like you stfu at the show.

the best was a Pub Crawl in my early 20's in Hawaii when I went to the Pro Bowl ('94)....these college prep doofuses would sell you this "spaghetti dinner and a bus to 5 bars" thing on the sidewalk, and show you group photos of 80 hotties and 20 dudes...of course, when you got there to the first bar where dinner was, it was 80 dudes and 20 chicks.

anyhow, just like a lot of you folks  here, they were all "oh, we smoke Hawaiian, your Alaskan ain't shit". (oh, we have spendy mics, so your recordings ain't shit)


longer story short, I sent 4 of the 6 of them home puking less than 2 hours later, ***because they couldn't handle it.***


you could learn from this maybe.....then again, nah, probably not.

Sorry dude,  your mental illness strikes again.

What are the Symptoms?
Monopolizing conversations? Feelings of entitlement? Belittling others? These are all classic signs of narcissistic personality disorder. Do you know of someone who knows the “right” way and all other ways are wrong? Are they cocky, lack empathy, and think they are largely important? Then it’s possible they might be suffering from this condition.


 I don't talk to asshats like you at shows and would pass on smoking something you passed my way.  I might catch something.


go read your "show notes" and note how often you reference yourself vs. the actual show.

then go look in the mirror and pat yourself on your narcissistic back.

repeatedly.


projection is not your strong suit.

just so you know.
-------------
people who are fans of the music, they LOVE what I document and capture...people who are fans of themselves....not so much.

Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2018, 04:20:43 AM »
Yeah, agree with DATboy. This turned nasty. For little reason. Can we please ignore the smoke and get to the topic?

As far as I can tell for anyone who has posted on this topic in this thread thus far - I am the only active wireless taper out there not part of a non-existent clique? Radio silence? Would be great to have some others chime in or if not contact via PM if that is safer for you. I do not want anything from anyone, just trying to explore this issue further. To rehash, where are the other people who pull multiple sources per show (i.e.: mixes), multiple boxes, multiple recorders and sweet results?


I talk about the topic, then you-know-who turns on his broken projector.

that said, this 'clique' has existed for nearly/over 20 years.


they scan the guitar mags for the new wireless boxes, then purchase every one, so they know which artist is using which frequency

that's not to say others haven't taken it upon themselves to do what they can, but this group of folks really exists.
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people who are fans of the music, they LOVE what I document and capture...people who are fans of themselves....not so much.

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2018, 09:32:15 AM »
Isn't the trick to offer security and the cops crappy Alaskan cabbage?  They will surely let you go.


no, that's to make people like you stfu at the show.

the best was a Pub Crawl in my early 20's in Hawaii when I went to the Pro Bowl ('94)....these college prep doofuses would sell you this "spaghetti dinner and a bus to 5 bars" thing on the sidewalk, and show you group photos of 80 hotties and 20 dudes...of course, when you got there to the first bar where dinner was, it was 80 dudes and 20 chicks.

anyhow, just like a lot of you folks  here, they were all "oh, we smoke Hawaiian, your Alaskan ain't shit". (oh, we have spendy mics, so your recordings ain't shit)


longer story short, I sent 4 of the 6 of them home puking less than 2 hours later, ***because they couldn't handle it.***


you could learn from this maybe.....then again, nah, probably not.

Sorry dude,  your mental illness strikes again.

What are the Symptoms?
Monopolizing conversations? Feelings of entitlement? Belittling others? These are all classic signs of narcissistic personality disorder. Do you know of someone who knows the “right” way and all other ways are wrong? Are they cocky, lack empathy, and think they are largely important? Then it’s possible they might be suffering from this condition.


 I don't talk to asshats like you at shows and would pass on smoking something you passed my way.  I might catch something.


go read your "show notes" and note how often you reference yourself vs. the actual show.

then go look in the mirror and pat yourself on your narcissistic back.

repeatedly.


projection is not your strong suit.

just so you know.

Not quite.  I tell people about my experience as many tapers do, you on the other hand spend your time fluffing mediocre (at best) sounding recording.  I guess I hit a raw nerve and you are displaying more symptoms of your mental illness.

Responds to criticism with shame, anger, and humiliation
Belief that nobody should question your motives and should have unwavering compliance with your requests
Preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success
Belief of great self-importance; only understood and should only associate with individuals of high-status
Expectations of being realized as superior
In need of and requiring constant admiration
Exaggeration of achievements and talents

 

Offline fanofjam

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2018, 10:56:02 AM »
I don't mean to inject myself in this topic, but I've lurked here for a long while before being an actual member. One thing I've noticed is that every time this very topic gets discussed around here, it turns nasty.

Anyway, that's all I got to say. Just a quick observation.

Respectfully, your observation is incorrect.  Reasonable people have discussed this topic many, many times without it becoming toxic.  It's an important topic to our hobby.  For example, I recall one awesome thread, it at least five years ago, where the lawyers and legal experts posted the actual text of the laws of all fifty US states, as regards taping.  There have been many others as well.

This conversation only becomes toxic when a few people decide on their own that they want to be asses, or in cases where the subject veers off to stealth taping, they decide on their own to violate a long-standing ts.com paradigm to keep stealth conversations stealth, or to say fuck all of the rest of you, I'm gonna just discuss or do whatever suits me. 

Taperssection is a community and, like it or not, people need to abide by the spoken and unspoken rules of the community or they'll be called out.  You might ask, well who made the rules?  Really there are no rules...there are just paradigms but the community established the paradigms over the years.  The community existed before most people here joined...and I think everyone can agree that the community need takes precedent over the wants and needs of any individual member, though some people don't get or care to respect that concept.

...which brings me to the subject of Furburger.  Nearly ANY conversation he imposes himself into turns toxic because he refuses to 'speak' civilly to people.  He predominantly carries himself like an asshole, yet he's constantly claiming discrimination.  Pretty obvious that Furburger has always had trouble playing nice in a sandbox.  Boo hoo for Furburger.  Fuck Furburger. 

I'm sure you can differentiate between Furburger's role in the toxicity of this, or any other thread in which he participates, and the more general subject of this thread, which is important and pertinent. 

« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 10:57:36 AM by fanofjam »

Offline nak700s

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2018, 03:03:21 PM »
As far as having gear confiscated in a venue goes, it seems like it would be pretty simple to avoid regardless of your rights and security's rights. I'm simply leaving before I'm being led into any private/closed area of any venue. "Oh, didn't know this wasn't allowed, I'll go ahead and leave". Not sure there's really much they can do to you if you go this route. They will have to forcibly detain me in front of other patrons if they must take my equipment.

Best of luck with this approach.  They do have the right to detain and search you if they suspect that you're doing something outside of the boundary of their rules.  They can say whatever they want, but the bottom line is that you must have a bomb on you with all those wires and equipment, right?  See the line of thought there?  They can "say" whatever they need to, and it will be believable...as it is your word against theirs, and you're the one doing something you're not supposed to be doing, while they are actually doing their job.  If you resist, they can and will drag you to their security office.  They can make sure you do not leave the building with a recording of the performance.  They do not have the right to confiscate any of your equipment, but that doesn't necessarily mean they won't try.

There are a lot of opinions and a lot of facts mixed into this thread, mainly because these laws differ from state to state.  You need to become familiar with the laws of the state(s) that you frequently tape in.  Those who claim to know everything are generally the ones who know the least, so you're best off not listening to other's advice unless you know them and that it applies to your location.  I'm sure fruburger would disagree with everything I've said (he disagrees with everyone), but in all reality, he doesn't know everything...true story.  My suggestion to you, is to do what I did.  Ask a lawyer within this field all the questions that you need answers to in case you get busted.  It really is as simple as that.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Fun times: 3 Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD744T + 2 Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline nak700s

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2018, 03:21:10 PM »
This thread was intended, intended, to be something that was of interest to those that had interest in this specific subject area. Would be really cool if we could jump back to the time a few days ago when that was a possibility. Thank you.

Thank you.

There's no reason to hijack a thread when it is so easy to start one dedicated to a different subject.  I will say though, I found the diversion and interesting one...for a little while...until it became a war.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Fun times: 3 Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD744T + 2 Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline ycoop

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2018, 11:44:59 PM »
My suggestion to you, is to do what I did.  Ask a lawyer within this field all the questions that you need answers to in case you get busted.  It really is as simple as that.

How would one go about locating such a lawyer?
Mics: Avantone CK-1s, CA-14 omnis
Pres: CA9100
Recorders: DR-60d mkII, DR-22wl, DR-07

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #71 on: May 11, 2018, 12:29:06 AM »
My suggestion to you, is to do what I did.  Ask a lawyer within this field all the questions that you need answers to in case you get busted.  It really is as simple as that.

How would one go about locating such a lawyer?

Scooter123 is a lawyer and taper on here.  He provided his thoughts on the subject before the thread went off the rails.  If I was in a situation he would be the first person I would call unless we were out taping together.

Another taper friend from the bay area (not on this site) is also a lawyer who I'd ask.   Since you are in California their opinions would be more valuable to your situation.  There are two or three others who used to tape and are located on the east coast who would be well versed on the subject in the event shit went down there.  If I was in such a situation, I would reach out to a lawyer I knew and ask them for a referral.   

Another option is to ask Rudy Giuliani but you might not get the best advice. 

Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #72 on: May 11, 2018, 05:11:44 AM »

Not quite.  I tell people about my experience as many tapers do, you on the other hand spend your time fluffing mediocre (at best) sounding recording.  I guess I hit a raw nerve and you are displaying more symptoms of your mental illness.




yes, a paragraph or two about "your experience" *getting to the show*, and then, if lucky, a sentence or two ***about the actual show***.

and that's (sentence) a crapshoot because of your shitty grammar/misspellings/missing words.


seriously, if you talk like you type, I can see why you have to fly to other countries for shows, because over there they think your English is stellar.
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Offline splumer

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #73 on: May 11, 2018, 10:33:03 AM »
misdemeanor theft: under $500

felony theft: over $500

Since you're obviously a legal scholar, I don't need to tell you this, but for the benefit of others: in Ohio, where I live, $500 is a 5th degree felony. Grand theft starts at $5000. In California, felony theft begins at $950. So it varies by state.


You merely say "before you walk off with that gear, I'd like you to speak to my attorney"


My son is a police officer. I asked him about it, and he said, "Yeah, good luck with that." He went on to explain that the police can confiscate pretty much anything they want, if they have reasonable suspicion that it may have been used, or was intended to be used, in a crime. He said they probably wouldn't, just because it's too much paperwork.
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Offline nak700s

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #74 on: May 11, 2018, 12:41:33 PM »
My suggestion to you, is to do what I did.  Ask a lawyer within this field all the questions that you need answers to in case you get busted.  It really is as simple as that.

How would one go about locating such a lawyer?

Scooter123 is a lawyer and taper on here.  He provided his thoughts on the subject before the thread went off the rails.  If I was in a situation he would be the first person I would call unless we were out taping together.

Another taper friend from the bay area (not on this site) is also a lawyer who I'd ask.   Since you are in California their opinions would be more valuable to your situation.  There are two or three others who used to tape and are located on the east coast who would be well versed on the subject in the event shit went down there.  If I was in such a situation, I would reach out to a lawyer I knew and ask them for a referral.   

Another option is to ask Rudy Giuliani but you might not get the best advice.

Good advice all around!
When I had a retail shop, one of my customers happened to be a copyright/trademark attorney that specialized in representing bands.  It's his job to know this stuff, so I asked him and got an education.  His field covered bootlegging, as well as the things you'd expect, so his expertise was of great value to me.  If I got popped, and was in need of a lawyer, I have several friends to choose from locally, but would call him.  As Daspyknows touched upon, an attorney in your state would be best for you (I'm in New York).
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Offline nak700s

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #75 on: May 11, 2018, 01:09:34 PM »

Not quite.  I tell people about my experience as many tapers do, you on the other hand spend your time fluffing mediocre (at best) sounding recording.  I guess I hit a raw nerve and you are displaying more symptoms of your mental illness.




yes, a paragraph or two about "your experience" *getting to the show*, and then, if lucky, a sentence or two ***about the actual show***.

and that's (sentence) a crapshoot because of your shitty grammar/misspellings/missing words.


seriously, if you talk like you type, I can see why you have to fly to other countries for shows, because over there they think your English is stellar.

Dude, I have steered clear of getting wrapped up in your drama again, but the grammar Nazi in me just had to chime in here.  I don't know you personally, and although you may be a good person, based on everything I've seen on this site, I wouldn't even want to.  Your writing is atrocious, your structure is ridiculous and nonsensical, and you can't seem to stay on topic within a single sentence.  It is genuinely painful to read your posts, but still amusing just the same.  You need only look above at this very comment to see how poorly you write... "if you talk like you type", really dude, do you think this is proper English?  How about trying, "if you speak like you write" the next time.
It's bad form to call someone else out on their writing when you are clearly challenged on that subject yourself.
On a personal note, I am surprised that you haven't been kicked off this site yet.  You do not contribute anything positive as much as you ridicule others.  You are constantly picking fights with other posters, when all they are doing is peacefully participating in a conversation.  Why, do you feel that insecure about yourself?  Seriously, why don't you just try to get along with others instead of antagonizing them?  If you don't agree with something, then approach it like an adult and support your statements with facts, not name-calling.  Maybe then, people won't give you such a bad rap.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Fun times: 3 Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD744T + 2 Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
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Simple & Sweet!

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #76 on: May 11, 2018, 09:12:52 PM »
All of the meaningful discussion (regarding legality) involves taping in the U.S.  Other countries the rules may/are very different and whether or not you are local may be result in a different outcome.  From experience of tapers I know, in Italy they can and will confiscate your gear.  I know people who have traveled to and taped in Moscow, China, Singapore and I commend them on their efforts.  Those are places I wouldn't want to get popped in.  Another point worth noting is there is a difference between getting caught with a cheap pair of mics and a little recorder or phone and getting caught with a full haul of IEM gear or a rig  that has components that can be mistaken for an explosive device.  Those who have been caught with gear like that can concur.  Also, discretion when  >:D is more important these days where people keep hearing "see something say something" but then most of us already know that.   


Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #77 on: May 11, 2018, 10:21:23 PM »



Dude, I have steered clear of getting wrapped up in your drama again, but the grammar Nazi in me just had to chime in here.  I don't know you personally, and although you may be a good person, based on everything I've seen on this site, I wouldn't even want to.  Your writing is atrocious, your structure is ridiculous and nonsensical, and you can't seem to stay on topic within a single sentence.  It is genuinely painful to read your posts, but still amusing just the same.  You need only look above at this very comment to see how poorly you write... "if you talk like you type", really dude, do you think this is proper English?  How about trying, "if you speak like you write" the next time.
It's bad form to call someone else out on their writing when you are clearly challenged on that subject yourself.
On a personal note, I am surprised that you haven't been kicked off this site yet.  You do not contribute anything positive as much as you ridicule others.  You are constantly picking fights with other posters, when all they are doing is peacefully participating in a conversation.  Why, do you feel that insecure about yourself?  Seriously, why don't you just try to get along with others instead of antagonizing them?  If you don't agree with something, then approach it like an adult and support your statements with facts, not name-calling.  Maybe then, people won't give you such a bad rap.


just posted on my AIC torrent upped today:

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=621277


Downloading this one based on your notes; thanks so much for another superb capture!


so, clearly, not all people see things the way you do  (not to mention I've never met chickenwing)

maybe if you spent less money on mics, you'd have more money to go to shows (based on previous posts you've made)


just.
a.
thought.
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Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #78 on: May 11, 2018, 10:26:28 PM »


Since you're obviously a legal scholar, I don't need to tell you this, but for the benefit of others: in Ohio, where I live, $500 is a 5th degree felony. Grand theft starts at $5000. In California, felony theft begins at $950. So it varies by state.


thank you for proving my point

$500 is a "5th degree felony".

but what is $499?

under $500?  a misdemeanor?

yeah, pretty much.



and in California, it's even more lenient, but still follows the base parameters that I stated (as $950 is more than $500, so the police would just be charged with a misdemeanor for my gear, but a felony for the mic-standers)


of COURSE laws vary state by state...I already stated such previously (i.e. radar detectors are illegal in Virginia (and 4 other states as well), but not in the other 45)


an inference, yes, but a logical conclusion *based on what I already stated*





My son is a police officer. I asked him about it, and he said, "Yeah, good luck with that." He went on to explain that the police can confiscate pretty much anything they want, if they have reasonable suspicion that it may have been used, or was intended to be used, in a crime. He said they probably wouldn't, just because it's too much paperwork.


a police officer is not a lawyer.

of COURSE the cops can confiscate what they want.

they can also be charged accordingly for illegal actions. (nee: the 'paperwork excuse')

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people who are fans of the music, they LOVE what I document and capture...people who are fans of themselves....not so much.

Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #79 on: May 11, 2018, 10:31:39 PM »
You need only look above at this very comment to see how poorly you write... "if you talk like you type", really dude, do you think this is proper English?  How about trying, "if you speak like you write" the next time.


um, because this place is silent, and calling what he does "writing" is an insult to 3rd graders worldwide.


"if you talk like you type" makes perfect sense....and yes, is proper English

if - conjunction
you - personal pronoun, used as the primary noun
talk - verb
like - preposition
you - personal pronoun
type - secondary verb


I could have put  the trailing "..." after it, and I'm sorry that you're wrong, but you are, as everything here is done via keyboard (nee: typed)


though judging from dapsies show notes, it's two fat thumbs on a touchscreen phone.

even the auto-correct can't help him.

and it shows.

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people who are fans of the music, they LOVE what I document and capture...people who are fans of themselves....not so much.

Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #80 on: May 11, 2018, 10:48:00 PM »
Except for the troll interference, this thread has been a pretty good read. I'm thankful for the dedication and diligence that these 'phantom' IEM/RF tapers contribute to the archival of live music. Just heard an IEM recording and was blown away by the quality. (Thanks, and I will honor my word and keep it to myself.)

As far as getting caught, it has only happened to me once. In 1993 I was endeavoring to record a David Lindley & Hani Naser show at Loco Ranchero in SLO, CA. Lindley was playing both an early and a late show. I had a ticket for the early show, but not the late. I took in my gear, which consisted that night of my CM 300s with CP-1 cardioid caps, custom shortened XLR >RCA cables, and my buddy Gene's TCD-D10 DAT. (I was still using my D6 in those days and had not as of yet made the jump to DAT for myself.)

Unfortunately, the NP-22H NiCad battery that powered the D10 was unreliable and wouldn't hold a charge for very long. (Later we replaced it with an ECO Charge lead-acid battery system.)

Knowing the club as I did, I knew that there was an unused 110 volt electrical outlet in a semi-convenient place, and the walls and ceiling of the club were painted black.

I sat with my friends and watched the early show, and at the break between shows I hid in a stall in the men's room until the staff had cleared the venue. Once the doors opened for the late show I waited until patrons started coming into the bathroom and I casually mingled and took up a position on the floor. (My friends had tickets for both shows and remained seated.)

I tried plugging into the wall receptacle and had the D10 and mics in a back pack at my feat. 10 minutes into the late another friend saw the power cable and tapped me on the shoulder and said, 'You really shouldn't be doing that', in earshot of one of Lindley's crew. It was a bust.

They pulled me aside and wanted the DAT tape, which only had 10 minutes of music on it. In those days DAT blanks were going for around $10 each. I refused to give up the tape. They threatened to call the cops and I made a beeline to the door, with gear and tape.

I don't know if they called the law or not but I wasn't going to stick around to find out. I figured that it was a draw, since I didn't actually pay to see the late show and I'd already had a good time watching the early set.

Loco Ranchero is now long gone and KSBY TV, the local NBC affiliate, has taken over the building and completely renovated it for their use.

No one could really make money at that location. The venue started out in the late sixties as a restaurant called 'The Breakers'. It changed hands many times and had different names over the years; 'Yancy McFadden's', 'The Spirit', and finally 'Loco Ranchero' before being retired from the club scene.

There is supposed to be a Chumash Indian grave yard on the site. Supposedly Wayne Newton owned the land.
The owners all had bad luck and some blamed the Indian graveyard, but the real problem was that the club was up on a hill at the South end of town next to the 101 freeway. There was one way in and one way out, and the cops would wait at the bottom of the hill and bust the drunks when the club shut down for the night.

My bad luck at getting caught taping there was just coincidental, I'm certain of it, Indian graveyard or not. :-\

The moral to the story is that I probably should have just given them the tape and kept them from getting so pissed off but I didn't, and I got out of there with my tape and gear. I considered myself lucky, and lived to fight another day. :)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 10:51:24 PM by OldNeumanntapr »

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2018, 11:05:30 PM »
We all have those kinds of stories from the old day ONT.  It was a different time.  At least you got the early show.  I do see your point though.

Offline DATBoy

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #82 on: May 12, 2018, 02:12:26 PM »
My suggestion to you, is to do what I did.  Ask a lawyer within this field all the questions that you need answers to in case you get busted.  It really is as simple as that.

How would one go about locating such a lawyer?

Scooter123 is a lawyer and taper on here.  He provided his thoughts on the subject before the thread went off the rails.  If I was in a situation he would be the first person I would call unless we were out taping together.

Another taper friend from the bay area (not on this site) is also a lawyer who I'd ask.   Since you are in California their opinions would be more valuable to your situation.  There are two or three others who used to tape and are located on the east coast who would be well versed on the subject in the event shit went down there.  If I was in such a situation, I would reach out to a lawyer I knew and ask them for a referral.   

Another option is to ask Rudy Giuliani but you might not get the best advice.

I don't know Scooter123 at all, and not to suggest he is one of these people, but I read what you said with caution because too many times I see people claim they are something online when really it is far from the truth. He could be totally lying about what he does (like he might actually be some kind of garbageman or office secretary), or maybe not. You probably know him much better than most people around here do. For all I know, Scooter123 could be really be a lawyer, but not really a lawyer who knows and specialize about these type of things. He could be a lawyer in insurance, divorce, immigration, etc. So yeah, he's probably a lawyer, but maybe not a lawyer who is qualified about making opinions about this. No offense to Scooter123 if he is reading this because again, I don't know him or his true occupation.

As far as what the previous poster who asked about where they can locate such a lawyer, why is this a concern? I say if you run into a problem about taping from a legal aspect, worry about it when you see things happening to you. Ever heard of a taper going to prison for years in America for taping at some concert? Maybe someone here has, but I really haven't. So if no one has heard of such a case, my point is try to find enjoyment from it. If you start worrying about it and all the consequences you think you might face for getting caught, then I think you should stop because obviously this is not a fun hobby for you anymore.

Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #83 on: May 12, 2018, 02:18:42 PM »

I don't know Scooter123 at all, and not to suggest he is one of these people, but I read what you said with caution because too many times I see people claim they are something online when really it is far from the truth. He could be totally lying about what he does (like he might actually be some kind of garbageman or office secretary), or maybe not. You probably know him much better than most people around here do. For all I know, Scooter123 could be really be a lawyer, but not really a lawyer who knows and specialize about these type of things. He could be a lawyer in insurance, divorce, immigration, etc. So yeah, he's probably a lawyer, but maybe not a lawyer who is qualified about making opinions about this. No offense to Scooter123 if he is reading this because again, I don't know him or his true occupation.


I can vouch for him. I have traded with Scooter many times and I even have his business card. He is indeed an attorney.

Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #84 on: May 12, 2018, 02:38:27 PM »

Sorry dude,  your mental illness strikes again.

What are the Symptoms?
Monopolizing conversations? Feelings of entitlement? Belittling others? These are all classic signs of narcissistic personality disorder. Do you know of someone who knows the “right” way and all other ways are wrong? Are they cocky, lack empathy, and think they are largely important? Then it’s possible they might be suffering from this condition.


 I don't talk to asshats like you at shows and would pass on smoking something you passed my way.  I might catch something.


sorry dude, but the irony of someone who goes by "daspyKNOWS" across the innerwebs claiming someone else is a narcissist is inherently laughable both to the common man and one who knows what he's doing.


again, projection is not your strong suit.



but love of people who abuse children, apparently, is right in your wheelhouse.
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people who are fans of the music, they LOVE what I document and capture...people who are fans of themselves....not so much.

obsidian

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #85 on: May 12, 2018, 04:36:14 PM »

... he might actually be some kind of garbageman or office secretary.


I can vouch for him. I have traded with Scooter many times and I even have his business card. He is indeed an attorney.

What's wrong with being a garbageman or an office secretary???

Offline univonc

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #86 on: May 12, 2018, 04:36:51 PM »
Citing the Manchester attack - remember, that was not from inside a concert but a guy wired up wearing a bomb who detonated it as people walked out of the concert. If one is going to reference actual shootings inside a venue perhaps the Bataclan or Dimebag Darrell's death in Columbus, OH in 2004. But all of that was totally off topic.

IEM tapers seem to be a very secretive bunch, but from the ones I've interacted with, it appears most tape from outside the arena. Once had a dude send me a photo of his rig in the trunk of his car. Had a full rack of receivers/recorders/antennas. Was pretty impressive...

I have never monitored IEM but I imagine you would have to deal with multiple frequencies, so multiple receivers would be needed for a show, active antennas would help pulling in a weak signal. If I was outside I would use a tuned antenna for each individual frequency. The benefit, or not depending on your preference, would be you would look pretty narc like with that rig on your car.

BINGO!!!!!!
I use a lot of stuff

Offline univonc

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #87 on: May 12, 2018, 04:38:24 PM »

I don't know Scooter123 at all, and not to suggest he is one of these people, but I read what you said with caution because too many times I see people claim they are something online when really it is far from the truth. He could be totally lying about what he does (like he might actually be some kind of garbageman or office secretary), or maybe not. You probably know him much better than most people around here do. For all I know, Scooter123 could be really be a lawyer, but not really a lawyer who knows and specialize about these type of things. He could be a lawyer in insurance, divorce, immigration, etc. So yeah, he's probably a lawyer, but maybe not a lawyer who is qualified about making opinions about this. No offense to Scooter123 if he is reading this because again, I don't know him or his true occupation.


I can vouch for him. I have traded with Scooter many times and I even have his business card. He is indeed an attorney.

Confirmed.  He's a good guy and knows his stuff.
I use a lot of stuff

obsidian

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #88 on: May 12, 2018, 04:40:33 PM »
How do you filter out someone so I don't have to see his/her posts? This Furburger moron is not worth reading.

Reminds me of the Donkey in Shrek ...

"It talks!" ...
"Its getting him to shut up thats the trick". Lol.

Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #89 on: May 12, 2018, 05:00:24 PM »
How do you filter out someone so I don't have to see his/her posts? This Furburger moron is not worth reading.

Reminds me of the Donkey in Shrek ...

"It talks!" ...
"Its getting him to shut up thats the trick". Lol.


“Throughout life people will make you mad, disrespect you and treat you bad. Let God deal with the things they do, cause hate in your heart will consume you too.”

― Will Smith
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Offline ycoop

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #90 on: May 12, 2018, 05:01:20 PM »
How do you filter out someone so I don't have to see his/her posts? This Furburger moron is not worth reading.

Reminds me of the Donkey in Shrek ...

"It talks!" ...
"Its getting him to shut up thats the trick". Lol.

Profile > Modify Profile > Buddies/Ignore List

Still shows that the user posted, just replaces their message with a "You are ignoring this user." followed by a link to show the post.
Mics: Avantone CK-1s, CA-14 omnis
Pres: CA9100
Recorders: DR-60d mkII, DR-22wl, DR-07

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #91 on: May 12, 2018, 05:15:11 PM »
Only way it works is if no one quotes him,then we don't have to read his crap since ignoring him isn't working.  With names like Furburgar and Ballsdeeper something really wrong  with him.  They said the same thing about the Cruz  kid in Parkland too.

Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #92 on: May 12, 2018, 05:17:29 PM »
Only way it works is if no one quotes him,then we don't have to read his crap since ignoring him isn't working.  With names like Furburgar and Ballsdeeper something really wrong  with him.  They said the same thing about the Cruz  kid in Parkland too.

if only you 'knew' anything worth something.

alas....
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Offline daspyknows

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #93 on: May 12, 2018, 05:31:47 PM »
Did you write something?  I am sure its childish and stupid. 

Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #94 on: May 12, 2018, 05:59:56 PM »
Did you write something?  I am sure its childish and stupid.


mirror, much?
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Offline daspyknows

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #95 on: May 12, 2018, 06:47:35 PM »
You are being ignored.    I need to get set up for a show so troll all you want.  Maybe you will realize your bs is not wanted here.  When you learn to act like a good boy the other children will play with you.   :smash:

Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #96 on: May 12, 2018, 07:20:07 PM »
Did you write something?  I am sure its childish and stupid.

You can BET on that!🤪

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #97 on: May 12, 2018, 07:34:33 PM »
I don't know Scooter123 at all, and not to suggest he is one of these people, but I read what you said with caution because too many times I see people claim they are something online when really it is far from the truth. He could be totally lying about what he does (like he might actually be some kind of garbageman or office secretary), or maybe not. You probably know him much better than most people around here do. For all I know, Scooter123 could be really be a lawyer, but not really a lawyer who knows and specialize about these type of things. He could be a lawyer in insurance, divorce, immigration, etc. So yeah, he's probably a lawyer, but maybe not a lawyer who is qualified about making opinions about this. No offense to Scooter123 if he is reading this because again, I don't know him or his true occupation.

As far as what the previous poster who asked about where they can locate such a lawyer, why is this a concern? I say if you run into a problem about taping from a legal aspect, worry about it when you see things happening to you. Ever heard of a taper going to prison for years in America for taping at some concert? Maybe someone here has, but I really haven't. So if no one has heard of such a case, my point is try to find enjoyment from it. If you start worrying about it and all the consequences you think you might face for getting caught, then I think you should stop because obviously this is not a fun hobby for you anymore.

Actually he is probably one of the MOST qualified of anyone else on here in regards to this topic.  I will not divulge any information on his skills, but to dismiss them outright is entirely up to you.  If you were in the porn star vs president situation would you prefer to call Michael Cohen or Michael Avenatti? If I was in a situation where I needed advice regarding anything related to taping or a similar subject I would ask for his advice or for a referral.  You missed that point. 

Probably a bigger issue for many tapers including one in particular is if you happen to get caught and law enforcement is called, cheap taping gear is the least of your problems.  Possession of other things is the problem, especially in states like Tennessee or Louisiana.  Also,  I know of tapers who have been arrested and paid visit to some of the finer establishments like Riker's Island.  A day or two there is more than enough.  You having not heard about it doesn't mean it didn't happen.  There have been other situations that some of us are aware of and will not be shared in a public forum like this.  Having a legal resource to call IS important if the need happens to arise.

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #98 on: May 12, 2018, 07:51:32 PM »
Did you write something?  I am sure its childish and stupid.

Nice job ignoring him.

Offline univonc

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #99 on: May 12, 2018, 09:11:15 PM »
There is a reason we tape.  There is a reason we record the way we do.

The only way to minimize not getting caught is to assume you are going to get caught and try to prevent it.  Every time I record I look at all the ways that I can catch myself and try like hell to prevent it.

Don't be stupid with your gear.  Don't let on that you are recording.  And by all means don't brag that you are doing it.

That is why I don't audience record anymore.  Too many whoo whoo girls and Ric Flair guys screwing up my recordings.
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Offline DATBoy

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #100 on: May 12, 2018, 09:40:26 PM »
I don't know Scooter123 at all, and not to suggest he is one of these people, but I read what you said with caution because too many times I see people claim they are something online when really it is far from the truth. He could be totally lying about what he does (like he might actually be some kind of garbageman or office secretary), or maybe not. You probably know him much better than most people around here do. For all I know, Scooter123 could be really be a lawyer, but not really a lawyer who knows and specialize about these type of things. He could be a lawyer in insurance, divorce, immigration, etc. So yeah, he's probably a lawyer, but maybe not a lawyer who is qualified about making opinions about this. No offense to Scooter123 if he is reading this because again, I don't know him or his true occupation.

As far as what the previous poster who asked about where they can locate such a lawyer, why is this a concern? I say if you run into a problem about taping from a legal aspect, worry about it when you see things happening to you. Ever heard of a taper going to prison for years in America for taping at some concert? Maybe someone here has, but I really haven't. So if no one has heard of such a case, my point is try to find enjoyment from it. If you start worrying about it and all the consequences you think you might face for getting caught, then I think you should stop because obviously this is not a fun hobby for you anymore.

Actually he is probably one of the MOST qualified of anyone else on here in regards to this topic.  I will not divulge any information on his skills, but to dismiss them outright is entirely up to you.  If you were in the porn star vs president situation would you prefer to call Michael Cohen or Michael Avenatti? If I was in a situation where I needed advice regarding anything related to taping or a similar subject I would ask for his advice or for a referral.  You missed that point. 

Probably a bigger issue for many tapers including one in particular is if you happen to get caught and law enforcement is called, cheap taping gear is the least of your problems.  Possession of other things is the problem, especially in states like Tennessee or Louisiana.  Also,  I know of tapers who have been arrested and paid visit to some of the finer establishments like Riker's Island.  A day or two there is more than enough.  You having not heard about it doesn't mean it didn't happen.  There have been other situations that some of us are aware of and will not be shared in a public forum like this.  Having a legal resource to call IS important if the need happens to arise.

Alright, but no, I'm not missing the point. I said I didn't know him. That's great that it looks like that you do, but it's questionable to me when I see someone's occupation written here by one person and no one else chimes in afterwards to say anything that endorses that person's field of business. How would you feel if someone on here made a similar claim about someone like me and you knew nothing about me before and the thread continues to go on without any further validation about what I do? In this age of scammers that operate on the internet, people need to be careful who to trust. I think it's a good thing I have said something here and questioned it and other people have said something that validates his field of work. Finally, the important part here is you suggested that it is possible he could help other tapers if they get into legal issues, even if this means giving a referral to that person who needs it. Overall, It sounds to me like he does or knows someone who can help with any legal issues with recording shows. That's wonderful.

And about the whole thing about tapers being caught and sent to prison/jail - would love to read about those if they ever made the news. There must be more to their stories than simply going in and recording the show on some portable recorder and getting caught. Can't speak about those situations with scanners and whatever else, but I guess maybe the more you bring in, the more complicated matters could get.

Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #101 on: May 12, 2018, 10:20:21 PM »

... he might actually be some kind of garbageman or office secretary.


I can vouch for him. I have traded with Scooter many times and I even have his business card. He is indeed an attorney.

What's wrong with being a garbageman or an office secretary???

Nothing is wrong with being either a garbage man or office secretary, though I wouldn't take legal advice from either one of them.
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Offline goodcooker

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #102 on: May 12, 2018, 10:59:54 PM »
made the news

No one at Taperssction has ever made the news!
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Offline DATBoy

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #103 on: May 13, 2018, 12:02:46 AM »

Offline xjsb125

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #104 on: May 13, 2018, 10:33:11 AM »
especially in states like Tennessee or Louisiana

Any need to knows about Tennessee to share?
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Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #105 on: May 13, 2018, 05:16:58 PM »

Actually he is probably one of the MOST qualified of anyone else on here in regards to this topic.  I will not divulge any information on his skills, but to dismiss them outright is entirely up to you.  If you were in the porn star vs president situation would you prefer to call Michael Cohen or Michael Avenatti? If I was in a situation where I needed advice regarding anything related to taping or a similar subject I would ask for his advice or for a referral.  You missed that point. 

Probably a bigger issue for many tapers including one in particular is if you happen to get caught and law enforcement is called, cheap taping gear is the least of your problems.  Possession of other things is the problem, especially in states like Tennessee or Louisiana.  Also,  I know of tapers who have been arrested and paid visit to some of the finer establishments like Riker's Island.  A day or two there is more than enough.  You having not heard about it doesn't mean it didn't happen.  There have been other situations that some of us are aware of and will not be shared in a public forum like this.  Having a legal resource to call IS important if the need happens to arise.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #106 on: May 13, 2018, 05:18:28 PM »
There is a reason we tape.  There is a reason we record the way we do.

The only way to minimize not getting caught is to assume you are going to get caught and try to prevent it.  Every time I record I look at all the ways that I can catch myself and try like hell to prevent it.

Don't be stupid with your gear.  Don't let on that you are recording.  And by all means don't brag that you are doing it.

That is why I don't audience record anymore.  Too many whoo whoo girls and Ric Flair guys screwing up my recordings.

and I just taped 32 bands in 15 days, and made people on both sides of me aware what I was doing (so they'd STFU)...of course sizing up where they were at/where they were coming from was a huge component of that.


not saying you're wrong in your approach, but there IS more than one way to skin a cat.
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Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #107 on: May 13, 2018, 05:19:58 PM »
especially in states like Tennessee or Louisiana

Any need to knows about Tennessee to share?


I'd ask someone like The Govner, geordy or earlehead (all who have taped in the TN area for 15-40 years) before I'd defer to Captain Clueless.
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Offline xjsb125

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #108 on: May 13, 2018, 07:26:42 PM »
I've also taped in Tennessee for the last 12 years but wasn't aware of anything other than, if I get busted, be as compliant and professional as I can. The one time that I have been, I conducted myself as such and the venue confiscated my tape (filming), and held my equipment until the end of the show and allowed me back in. Luckily I had my audio gear hidden very well, haha! I have known Geordy for a long time. We worked together on a NIN show many many years ago. Great guy and taper!
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Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #109 on: May 14, 2018, 12:40:18 AM »
I've also taped in Tennessee for the last 12 years but wasn't aware of anything other than, if I get busted, be as compliant and professional as I can. The one time that I have been, I conducted myself as such and the venue confiscated my tape (filming), and held my equipment until the end of the show and allowed me back in. Luckily I had my audio gear hidden very well, haha! I have known Geordy for a long time. We worked together on a NIN show many many years ago. Great guy and taper!


yup.

was just mentioning 3 off the top of my head who are in the eastern/central part of the state.


have been busted probably a dozen times over the years...had to check the vidcam at coatcheck after getting caught *twice* (Crowes '10 at the Fillmore in SF, but nailed the other 3 nights I was there), had a large black security guard grab me by the neck, and lift me up against a fence  until I gave him the tape (Tool Lolla '97 Shoreline), had the tape snapped in half in front of me, but was allowed to stay (Exodus '92 San Jose), got thrown out for smoking a joint, but recorded the whole exchange, snuck back in and got the rest of the show (Cult '95, Tempe), got busted for filming with a 6 inch tripod, taken downstairs on 20 minute walk, then was told filming *could* resume , just not with the tripod (VH '12, St. Louis), a dipshit former friend just HAD to stand up in front of people who it was obvious were going to narc us out, and when security came, former friend spilled a full go cup of soda on MY D6, the tapes were taken, the decks and mics were not, and we were told to leave the venue (Page/Plant '95 San Jose, which was a STUPID show to be taping, as they were broadcasting the FM that night), and other various and assorted situations.

note that NONE of these experiences were in Alaska

all that said, this "Chicken Little" attitude that the cops have some sort of 'power' regarding *your* property in those situations is utterly unfounded.

they can NOT take your property (nee: hardware)...now that does result in you leaving the venue with it, instead of staying for the show, but ANY cop who seized what rightfully belongs to you (meaning ALL but the actual recording), you get their badge number then and there, ask for their commanding officer (who knows more than some 18 month old rookie) and trust me, there will be told to return your property then and there (if not actual repercussions on THEIR end), but not for you.


stealth tapers don't rely on permissions, they rely on smarts and guile.


again, I grew up around a lot of lawyers, doctors, etc...call bullshit on what I'm saying if you want, but unless you're an utter idiot, your gear is YOUR gear.

it'd be easy to research the statutes in each state regarding such, right down to the code numbers for the law, and compile them.

they have the rights to the recording, and your batteries if you choose to stay.

but that's it.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 12:45:27 AM by furburger »
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Offline fanofjam

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #110 on: May 14, 2018, 11:51:42 AM »
they can NOT take your property (nee: hardware)...now that does result in you leaving the venue with it, instead of staying for the show, but ANY cop who seized what rightfully belongs to you (meaning ALL but the actual recording), you get their badge number then and there, ask for their commanding officer (who knows more than some 18 month old rookie) and trust me, there will be told to return your property then and there (if not actual repercussions on THEIR end), but not for you.


I agree that a stealth taper is pretty dumb, on a number of levels, if he/she get into a situation that escalates to the point where you might lose your gear.

That said, the 'badge number -> commanding officer' line of reasoning is nonsense and nobody with common sense would follow that suggestion.  The point many have made, that you keep ignoring, is that your legal rights DO NOT dictate security/or a police officers actions in any particular encounter and you'd be a fool to think a commanding officer isn't going to support whatever action they take.  All you have to do is watch the news and see how cops treat minorities to understand this.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 11:55:29 AM by fanofjam »

Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #111 on: May 14, 2018, 01:27:19 PM »


That said, the 'badge number -> commanding officer' line of reasoning is nonsense and nobody with common sense would follow that suggestion.  The point many have made, that you keep ignoring, is that your legal rights DO NOT dictate security/or a police officers actions in any particular encounter and you'd be a fool to think a commanding officer isn't going to support whatever action they take.  All you have to do is watch the news and see how cops treat minorities to understand this.

*only if it gets to that point*....you don't go asking for badge numbers out of the gate. (nor am I a minority)

and no, the commanding officer will not necessarily back up the lower level person.

case in point: in SF at the Fillmore to tape TMS last fall.

"lower level employee" (this is an analogy) told me "no, you can't tape from upstairs, even if the band gives you permission" (which I had)...I then politely asked for person in charge  (showing up when doors open/being first in line is key here, don't try this 10 minutes before showtime), she came out, did the necessary legwork (which she didn't need to do)...and permission was granted (she also was impressed that I used residue-free duct-tape to secure my gear, she initially said "no tape" until I showed her).


the ultimate goal: "to get what you want".

but how do *you* get there?


my "schtick" here isn't how those kind of situations are approached, trust me.
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Offline fanofjam

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #112 on: May 14, 2018, 01:58:04 PM »
"lower level employee" (this is an analogy) told me "no, you can't tape from upstairs, even if the band gives you permission" (which I had)...I then politely asked for person in charge  (showing up when doors open/being first in line is key here, don't try this 10 minutes before showtime), she came out, did the necessary legwork (which she didn't need to do)...and permission was granted (she also was impressed that I used residue-free duct-tape to secure my gear, she initially said "no tape" until I showed her).

This same thing has happened to me more times than I can count (though I open tape a lot more than stealth).  The first person encountered at the show defaults to 'no'.  Rather than taking an agressive attitude, I politely tell them that you think there might be a mistake and that if they could please do you the favor of asking someone that you'd reeealllly appreciate it.  If I'm recording a taper friendly band, I might say something about how the band appreciates it as well.

I've offered to buy the person that I encountered something to drink later on, even if it's only a water or coke.  They usually can't accept so more times than not I don't actually end up buying, but the offer goes a long way to making brownie points with these people and it also helps them to remember me.

Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #113 on: May 14, 2018, 02:29:26 PM »
"lower level employee" (this is an analogy) told me "no, you can't tape from upstairs, even if the band gives you permission" (which I had)...I then politely asked for person in charge  (showing up when doors open/being first in line is key here, don't try this 10 minutes before showtime), she came out, did the necessary legwork (which she didn't need to do)...and permission was granted (she also was impressed that I used residue-free duct-tape to secure my gear, she initially said "no tape" until I showed her).

This same thing has happened to me more times than I can count (though I open tape a lot more than stealth).  The first person encountered at the show defaults to 'no'.  Rather than taking an agressive attitude, I politely tell them that you think there might be a mistake and that if they could please do you the favor of asking someone that you'd reeealllly appreciate it.  If I'm recording a taper friendly band, I might say something about how the band appreciates it as well.

I've offered to buy the person that I encountered something to drink later on, even if it's only a water or coke.  They usually can't accept so more times than not I don't actually end up buying, but the offer goes a long way to making brownie points with these people and it also helps them to remember me.

yup, AK hippy lettuce has helped me many times in that regard as well.

the "badge number/commanding officer" line is more when rookie is walking off with your belongings...maybe that choice of words is a bit  'brusk', but the worst I've ever had in 25+ years is either coat check (if I stay) or 'leave the venue' (self-explanatory)
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Offline nak700s

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #114 on: May 14, 2018, 04:40:17 PM »



Dude, I have steered clear of getting wrapped up in your drama again, but the grammar Nazi in me just had to chime in here.  I don't know you personally, and although you may be a good person, based on everything I've seen on this site, I wouldn't even want to.  Your writing is atrocious, your structure is ridiculous and nonsensical, and you can't seem to stay on topic within a single sentence.  It is genuinely painful to read your posts, but still amusing just the same.  You need only look above at this very comment to see how poorly you write... "if you talk like you type", really dude, do you think this is proper English?  How about trying, "if you speak like you write" the next time.
It's bad form to call someone else out on their writing when you are clearly challenged on that subject yourself.
On a personal note, I am surprised that you haven't been kicked off this site yet.  You do not contribute anything positive as much as you ridicule others.  You are constantly picking fights with other posters, when all they are doing is peacefully participating in a conversation.  Why, do you feel that insecure about yourself?  Seriously, why don't you just try to get along with others instead of antagonizing them?  If you don't agree with something, then approach it like an adult and support your statements with facts, not name-calling.  Maybe then, people won't give you such a bad rap.


just posted on my AIC torrent upped today:

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=621277


Downloading this one based on your notes; thanks so much for another superb capture!


so, clearly, not all people see things the way you do  (not to mention I've never met chickenwing)

maybe if you spent less money on mics, you'd have more money to go to shows (based on previous posts you've made)


just.
a.
thought.

You are truly unbelievable.  You are so high on your horse, that nothing anyone else says or does holds any significance compared to you.  Maybe you should change your name to King Furburger!

What I spend on my microphones and gear is my business, and certainly none of yours, so keep your nose out of my wallet.  What I spend, when I spend anything at all, on concert tickets, again, is none of your business.  Again, keep your nose out of my business.  I don't deal drugs, so I don't have the disposable income (cash) that you do.  I work hard for a living working 2-3 jobs, and spend my money on what brings me pleasure, so once again, keep you nose out of my wallet.

Furthermore, I do not use dime.  I don't download shows from there, because too many of them suck.  When I bother to download a show at all, I use bt.etree, and find that overall, the quality of recordings on that site are more consistently better.  Of course, that's personal preference.

Another thing, you are not in the same league as probably every other taper on this thread.  You do not even use "real" microphones to record a show, yet criticize virtually everyone who does.  You put a small Tascam in your pocket and think that makes you a "taper".  It doesn't, at least not in the sense of what the rest of us do here.  It's great that you're happy with your recordings, which is all that matters, but when it comes to concern about being caught taping, LOL, you have no concern.  Your $200 recorder is insignificant in comparison to a quality recording rig.  So seriously, why chime in with your point of view when it really doesn't apply to the rest of us?  That, by the way, was a rhetorical question, so please don't answer it.

Oh, and one more thing, you are a drug dealer, not a lawyer, so stop giving bullshit legal advice to someone who's asking for facts.  Having family 

In conclusion, and I think I speak for most of us, if not all of us, either learn how to communicate nicely with others, or stop communicating with us at all.  None of us here are interested in your abuse.  We are here because we appreciate and value what OTHER tapers have to say regarding certain situations.

Peace.
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Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #115 on: May 14, 2018, 05:09:13 PM »


You are truly unbelievable.  You are so high on your horse, that nothing anyone else says or does holds any significance compared to you.  Maybe you should change your name to King Furburger!

What I spend on my microphones and gear is my business, and certainly none of yours, so keep your nose out of my wallet.  What I spend, when I spend anything at all, on concert tickets, again, is none of your business.  Again, keep your nose out of my business.  I don't deal drugs, so I don't have the disposable income (cash) that you do.  I work hard for a living working 2-3 jobs, and spend my money on what brings me pleasure, so once again, keep you nose out of my wallet.

Furthermore, I do not use dime.  I don't download shows from there, because too many of them suck.  When I bother to download a show at all, I use bt.etree, and find that overall, the quality of recordings on that site are more consistently better.  Of course, that's personal preference.

Another thing, you are not in the same league as probably every other taper on this thread.  You do not even use "real" microphones to record a show, yet criticize virtually everyone who does.  You put a small Tascam in your pocket and think that makes you a "taper".  It doesn't, at least not in the sense of what the rest of us do here.  It's great that you're happy with your recordings, which is all that matters, but when it comes to concern about being caught taping, LOL, you have no concern.  Your $200 recorder is insignificant in comparison to a quality recording rig.  So seriously, why chime in with your point of view when it really doesn't apply to the rest of us?  That, by the way, was a rhetorical question, so please don't answer it.

Oh, and one more thing, you are a drug dealer, not a lawyer, so stop giving bullshit legal advice to someone who's asking for facts.  Having family 

In conclusion, and I think I speak for most of us, if not all of us, either learn how to communicate nicely with others, or stop communicating with us at all.  None of us here are interested in your abuse.  We are here because we appreciate and value what OTHER tapers have to say regarding certain situations.

Peace.


um, YOU are the one who brought it up in past threads. (or if you don't want people to mention it, then you probably shouldn't share it)

a wise lesson my father taught me at a young age is "it's not how much you make, it's *what you do with it*".

you could learn from this.

Sonic Studios are a *real* microphone with a full 20hz to 20khz range. they've served me very well, and for 25 years I've received numerous accolades for my captures. (that's not "full of myself", that's OTHER peoples opinions)


as for "being a drug dealer", you're right.

I HATE Big Pharma to the core of my soul, and if I can grow a plant that helps people with lupus (removed her RLS/pins and needles at night so she can sleep), MS (a good friend lost sight in her left eye, added my CBD coconut oil to her tea at night, 3 days later, her sight returned), arthritis (name another medicine that you can eat AND apply topically where benefits are derived), glaucoma (reduces the pressure of the eyeball), cancer (appetite and nausea)...I could go on and on and on with the  people I help at a ***fraction of the cost of the pills that tear up stomach linings***.


my legal "advice" is derived from pure, personal experience, and I'm guessing I hit home with you so hard that "Having family" was going to be some bleeding-heart bullshit that ended with "is more important than blah blah blah wah wah wah), but you were so worked up that you forgot to finish.



God is good, man is not, man made whiskey, God made pot.


bless you, and in conclusion, may you figure it out someday, before it's too late.
-------------
people who are fans of the music, they LOVE what I document and capture...people who are fans of themselves....not so much.

Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #116 on: May 14, 2018, 05:32:19 PM »

In conclusion, and I think I speak for most of us, if not all of us, either learn how to communicate nicely with others, or stop communicating with us at all.  None of us here are interested in your abuse.  We are here because we appreciate and value what OTHER tapers have to say regarding certain situations.



posted this for daspy, yet it applies to you as well:

“Throughout life people will make you mad, disrespect you and treat you bad. Let God deal with the things they do, cause hate in your heart will consume you too.”

― Will Smith



 :)
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Offline nak700s

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #117 on: May 14, 2018, 07:27:51 PM »


You are truly unbelievable.  You are so high on your horse, that nothing anyone else says or does holds any significance compared to you.  Maybe you should change your name to King Furburger!

What I spend on my microphones and gear is my business, and certainly none of yours, so keep your nose out of my wallet.  What I spend, when I spend anything at all, on concert tickets, again, is none of your business.  Again, keep your nose out of my business.  I don't deal drugs, so I don't have the disposable income (cash) that you do.  I work hard for a living working 2-3 jobs, and spend my money on what brings me pleasure, so once again, keep you nose out of my wallet.

Furthermore, I do not use dime.  I don't download shows from there, because too many of them suck.  When I bother to download a show at all, I use bt.etree, and find that overall, the quality of recordings on that site are more consistently better.  Of course, that's personal preference.

Another thing, you are not in the same league as probably every other taper on this thread.  You do not even use "real" microphones to record a show, yet criticize virtually everyone who does.  You put a small Tascam in your pocket and think that makes you a "taper".  It doesn't, at least not in the sense of what the rest of us do here.  It's great that you're happy with your recordings, which is all that matters, but when it comes to concern about being caught taping, LOL, you have no concern.  Your $200 recorder is insignificant in comparison to a quality recording rig.  So seriously, why chime in with your point of view when it really doesn't apply to the rest of us?  That, by the way, was a rhetorical question, so please don't answer it.

Oh, and one more thing, you are a drug dealer, not a lawyer, so stop giving bullshit legal advice to someone who's asking for facts.  Having family 

In conclusion, and I think I speak for most of us, if not all of us, either learn how to communicate nicely with others, or stop communicating with us at all.  None of us here are interested in your abuse.  We are here because we appreciate and value what OTHER tapers have to say regarding certain situations.

Peace.


um, YOU are the one who brought it up in past threads. (or if you don't want people to mention it, then you probably shouldn't share it)

a wise lesson my father taught me at a young age is "it's not how much you make, it's *what you do with it*".

you could learn from this.

Sonic Studios are a *real* microphone with a full 20hz to 20khz range. they've served me very well, and for 25 years I've received numerous accolades for my captures. (that's not "full of myself", that's OTHER peoples opinions)


as for "being a drug dealer", you're right.

I HATE Big Pharma to the core of my soul, and if I can grow a plant that helps people with lupus (removed her RLS/pins and needles at night so she can sleep), MS (a good friend lost sight in her left eye, added my CBD coconut oil to her tea at night, 3 days later, her sight returned), arthritis (name another medicine that you can eat AND apply topically where benefits are derived), glaucoma (reduces the pressure of the eyeball), cancer (appetite and nausea)...I could go on and on and on with the  people I help at a ***fraction of the cost of the pills that tear up stomach linings***.


my legal "advice" is derived from pure, personal experience, and I'm guessing I hit home with you so hard that "Having family" was going to be some bleeding-heart bullshit that ended with "is more important than blah blah blah wah wah wah), but you were so worked up that you forgot to finish.



God is good, man is not, man made whiskey, God made pot.


bless you, and in conclusion, may you figure it out someday, before it's too late.

I wasn't so worked up that I forgot anything.  I wrote what I wanted to.  If you want me to go on about family, no problem.  There are currently 3 doctors in my family, soon to be 4.  I lost count of how many lawyers, but a fair estimate would be about 5 or 6.  The thing is, it doesn't mean shit, as I am still not personally qualified to give medical or legal advice.  I too have a lot of personal experience, but that only gives me a limited knowledge of my situation, not someone else's.  As far as friends, I can't even begin to estimate the number of doctors and lawyers that I'm close to.  Plenty of both on speed dial.  Again, it doesn't mean shit...and a few of each are tapers too.
NEXT
I have no problems with you being a grower and a dealer.  It really doesn't matter to me and I don't care.  My only point on that topic, is that you have a lot of disposable cash to work with.
NEXT
As for my personal finances, it isn't for you to quote, regardless of what I decide to share.  It's intrusive, and you should know where that line is by this time in your life.  I'm not ashamed about it, but it isn't something I'm happy about either.  I was doing very well for quite a while, but a divorce with a bitter bitch literally cleaned me out.  Nowadays, I'm starting from scratch with a lot more bills...such as child support and other expenses related to the divorce and my kids.  Lots of drama that I would be fine without!  A good portion of my recording gear, with the exception of upgrades, are things I've owned before I met my ex-wife.  Concert tickets are too much money these days, so I have to pick and choose (at least for the next year and a half), but luckily for me, I have many friends who hook me up when they can, and I don't pay for almost everything locally because I know a few promoters.  I also barter with my services of recording shows for bands and promoters.  I manage to do almost all of what is important to me.  Still, it isn't for you, or anyone, to throw that in my face, it's bad form.  No one else ever has, by the way.
NEXT
Sonic Studios mics are something I'm very familiar with.  Dare I say, more so than you.  I was one of the 2 people that initially reviewed them before they first hit the market.  For what they are, they are decent mics.  My taping partner was the one who wrote the review/article.  We had (have) 2 pair of them.  I don't use them anymore.  They lack bottom end.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Fun times: 3 Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD744T + 2 Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #118 on: May 14, 2018, 08:44:02 PM »
Het Nak700, just don't quote the clown anymore.  Them we can truly ignore him and he can spew his nonsense without us have to read his crap.  All I see if how much he needs to respond to every comment as if its a personal affront.  Just like Trump.

Also the point xjsb125 commented on regarding Tennessee, Kentucky and Alabama had NOTHING to do with taping.  The point (obvious I thought to most) was that arguing with security and police about getting gear back should be the least of one's concern with a bag full of Alaskan bunk cabbage or whatever it's called.  In one case I would encourage arguing to facilitate a search.  Then the Holiday Inn Express lawyer can use his extensive legal and negotiating skills.  It is like Trump.  Telling him not to do something will result in him doing it because he knows more than anyone else.  That's it, I'm done.  Have shows to track and upload.


Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #119 on: May 14, 2018, 09:19:46 PM »
I wasn't so worked up that I forgot anything.  I wrote what I wanted to.  If you want me to go on about family, no problem.  There are currently 3 doctors in my family, soon to be 4.  I lost count of how many lawyers, but a fair estimate would be about 5 or 6.  The thing is, it doesn't mean shit, as I am still not personally qualified to give medical or legal advice.  I too have a lot of personal experience, but that only gives me a limited knowledge of my situation, not someone else's.  As far as friends, I can't even begin to estimate the number of doctors and lawyers that I'm close to.  Plenty of both on speed dial.  Again, it doesn't mean shit...and a few of each are tapers too.


there is nothing I said about the legal side of taping that is untrue.

nor is anyone exchanging money for what is being said....which is the usual mechanism one uses to obtain 'legal advice'.

if you have actually gotten to the point that you need legal advice, then clearly you're taping wrong.


I have no problems with you being a grower and a dealer.  It really doesn't matter to me and I don't care.  My only point on that topic, is that you have a lot of disposable cash to work with.

no, I have a lot of disposable cash due to prior investments and prudent use of funds.

again, it's not how much I make, it's knowing the difference between investments and liabilities.






As for my personal finances, it isn't for you to quote, regardless of what I decide to share.  It's intrusive, and you should know where that line is by this time in your life.  I'm not ashamed about it, but it isn't something I'm happy about either.  I was doing very well for quite a while, but a divorce with a bitter bitch literally cleaned me out.  Nowadays, I'm starting from scratch with a lot more bills...such as child support and other expenses related to the divorce and my kids.  Lots of drama that I would be fine without!  A good portion of my recording gear, with the exception of upgrades, are things I've owned before I met my ex-wife.  Concert tickets are too much money these days, so I have to pick and choose (at least for the next year and a half), but luckily for me, I have many friends who hook me up when they can, and I don't pay for almost everything locally because I know a few promoters.  I also barter with my services of recording shows for bands and promoters.  I manage to do almost all of what is important to me.  Still, it isn't for you, or anyone, to throw that in my face, it's bad form.  No one else ever has, by the way.


maybe you should have thought about that before you said things like:

-You are so high on your horse, that nothing anyone else says or does holds any significance compared to you. (shallow character statement, incorrect in nature)

-I don't deal drugs (shallow stab)

-I don't download shows from there, because too many of them suck.  When I bother to download a show at all, I use bt.etree (attempted insult.....I use dime, TTD and etree, but download the least from etree, because the bulk of the *music* there sucks, regardless of quality)

-Another thing, you are not in the same league as probably every other taper on this thread (personal attack, regardless of its flawed nature)

-You do not even use "real" microphones to record a show (another attempted putdown)

-Oh, and one more thing, you are a drug dealer, not a lawyer (more repeated slander, as ***it's legal in Alaska, and I *give it away* when traveling)




after all that verbal garbage from you, my response was what again?:

I merely provided an example of ***others not seeing things the way you do***, and brought up a single statement that YOU made *publicly*


and somehow I'm the bad guy???


I'm sorry your skin is tissue-thin, and I can send you some manstruation pads if you need them....but get real with yourself already.



maybe you missed it, but I'm civil here with those who are civil with me.

whereas others have said daspy (for example, one of the most uncivil posters here) has been like he has for "decades"....the irony of someone who goes by daspyknows calling someone else a narcissist is hypocrisy to the n'th power, and if you can't see that, I can't help you





Sonic Studios mics are something I'm very familiar with.  Dare I say, more so than you.  I was one of the 2 people that initially reviewed them before they first hit the market.  For what they are, they are decent mics.  My taping partner was the one who wrote the review/article.  We had (have) 2 pair of them.  I don't use them anymore.  They lack bottom end.


I'd have to call bullshit on that, or see a link of such.


as for the 'lack of bottom end', then why the hell did Leonard make a THREE way lo-cut for them? (since discontinued)


it makes no sense to make a LOW cut for something with little bottom end, no?



man, you're easy, and I'd make a "I see why your wife left" joke to follow, but I don't want you to do something drastic....
-------------
people who are fans of the music, they LOVE what I document and capture...people who are fans of themselves....not so much.

Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #120 on: May 14, 2018, 10:03:48 PM »

You are truly unbelievable.  You are so high on your horse, that nothing anyone else says or does holds any significance compared to you.  Maybe you should change your name to King Furburger!

What I spend on my microphones and gear is my business, and certainly none of yours, so keep your nose out of my wallet.  What I spend, when I spend anything at all, on concert tickets, again, is none of your business.  Again, keep your nose out of my business.  I don't deal drugs, so I don't have the disposable income (cash) that you do.  I work hard for a living working 2-3 jobs, and spend my money on what brings me pleasure, so once again, keep you nose out of my wallet.

Furthermore, I do not use dime.  I don't download shows from there, because too many of them suck.  When I bother to download a show at all, I use bt.etree, and find that overall, the quality of recordings on that site are more consistently better.  Of course, that's personal preference.

Another thing, you are not in the same league as probably every other taper on this thread.  You do not even use "real" microphones to record a show, yet criticize virtually everyone who does.  You put a small Tascam in your pocket and think that makes you a "taper".  It doesn't, at least not in the sense of what the rest of us do here.  It's great that you're happy with your recordings, which is all that matters, but when it comes to concern about being caught taping, LOL, you have no concern.  Your $200 recorder is insignificant in comparison to a quality recording rig.  So seriously, why chime in with your point of view when it really doesn't apply to the rest of us?  That, by the way, was a rhetorical question, so please don't answer it.

Oh, and one more thing, you are a drug dealer, not a lawyer, so stop giving bullshit legal advice to someone who's asking for facts.  Having family 

In conclusion, and I think I speak for most of us, if not all of us, either learn how to communicate nicely with others, or stop communicating with us at all.  None of us here are interested in your abuse.  We are here because we appreciate and value what OTHER tapers have to say regarding certain situations.

Peace.

Very well said.

Offline Galen

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #121 on: May 14, 2018, 11:40:29 PM »
Ok.

So - yeah, legality of taping regarding AUD rig and IEM rig...? I think we came to no real resolution just a bunch of speculation?

Personally, I have walked away from this thread with learning nothing. My intent was to conjure up some like-minded enthusiasts to try and get an idea of how many of people like me there are out there. Thus the people I know who do this and who know even more tricks than I do (you know who you are) have steered away from this and no one else who knows anything about current IEM taping(?) chimed in. I know there are rogue scanner IEM tapers but that's not who I was trying to reach.

Can I request that this thread become locked? All the bickering between random people and furburger just detracts from the point. Please?
http://www.collectiveunconscious.org/

Recorders:
Sony PCM-M1 (Oade Mod II) x 2, Sony PCM-M1 (stock) x 1
Casio DA-R100 (1991 model, only used when able to use DC)
Edirol R-09
Tascam DA-R40
Sony MD RZ700 (retired)
Sharp MD MT-180 (retired)

Microphones:
Nakamichi CM-300, omni (Stealth/non-mod, my father's originals from 1978)
DPA 4061 > MPS6030
Aiwa CM-30
Core Sound Binauarals
Soundman OKMII-R
Marantz EM-8
SEN G2/3
Shure P10R (470-698)
Icom RX7

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #122 on: May 15, 2018, 12:22:06 AM »
Can I request that this thread become locked? All the bickering between random people and furburger just detracts from the point. Please?

You should be able to lock it yourself.  At the bottom of the page, look for the Lock Topic button.  If you have trouble, let me know via PM and I'll lock it up for you.
Milab VM-44 Links > Fostex FR-2LE or
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Offline hoserama

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #123 on: May 15, 2018, 12:33:50 AM »
Ok.

So - yeah, legality of taping regarding AUD rig and IEM rig...? I think we came to no real resolution just a bunch of speculation?

Personally, I have walked away from this thread with learning nothing. My intent was to conjure up some like-minded enthusiasts to try and get an idea of how many of people like me there are out there. Thus the people I know who do this and who know even more tricks than I do (you know who you are) have steered away from this and no one else who knows anything about current IEM taping(?) chimed in. I know there are rogue scanner IEM tapers but that's not who I was trying to reach.

Can I request that this thread become locked? All the bickering between random people and furburger just detracts from the point. Please?

This iem taper here also votes for locking it. My one contribution.
Audio: AT943 + SBD feeds
Antennas: Lots of those
Cables: Lots of those
Recorders: Cymatic Utrack24, Cymatic LR16, RME Multiface, (2) Tascam 680, (2) Tascam 2D, Zoom H6, Zoom H4n, and a graveyard of irivers/nomads/minidiscs.

Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #124 on: May 15, 2018, 01:25:17 AM »
there isn't anything on the books because wiretap laws apply to private conversations, whereas concerts are public performances, not to mention, they aren't "conversations".

daspy says scooter is the man, and nak here says that anyone who isn't a lawyer should hush.


so there ya go.
-------------
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Offline fanofjam

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #125 on: May 15, 2018, 08:58:23 AM »
there isn't anything on the books because wiretap laws apply to private conversations, whereas concerts are public performances, not to mention, they aren't "conversations".

daspy says scooter is the man, and nak here says that anyone who isn't a lawyer should hush.


so there ya go.

Blah blah blah BLOCKED Bye.

Offline furburger

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #126 on: May 15, 2018, 12:10:33 PM »
there isn't anything on the books because wiretap laws apply to private conversations, whereas concerts are public performances, not to mention, they aren't "conversations".

daspy says scooter is the man, and nak here says that anyone who isn't a lawyer should hush.


so there ya go.

Blah blah blah BLOCKED Bye.


if only the converse were true.


-------------
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Offline Galen

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Re: Legality of Taping - AUD & RF/IEM
« Reply #127 on: May 16, 2018, 12:34:50 AM »
Ah yes, thank you.

Can I request that this thread become locked? All the bickering between random people and furburger just detracts from the point. Please?

You should be able to lock it yourself.  At the bottom of the page, look for the Lock Topic button.  If you have trouble, let me know via PM and I'll lock it up for you.
http://www.collectiveunconscious.org/

Recorders:
Sony PCM-M1 (Oade Mod II) x 2, Sony PCM-M1 (stock) x 1
Casio DA-R100 (1991 model, only used when able to use DC)
Edirol R-09
Tascam DA-R40
Sony MD RZ700 (retired)
Sharp MD MT-180 (retired)

Microphones:
Nakamichi CM-300, omni (Stealth/non-mod, my father's originals from 1978)
DPA 4061 > MPS6030
Aiwa CM-30
Core Sound Binauarals
Soundman OKMII-R
Marantz EM-8
SEN G2/3
Shure P10R (470-698)
Icom RX7

 

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