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Author Topic: Battery box vs. preamp for M10  (Read 1894 times)

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Offline lsd2525

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Battery box vs. preamp for M10
« on: May 11, 2018, 12:26:29 PM »
Hoping someone can point me in the right direction. Last night, I used (successfully, for the first time) a Church UBB (AT853>UBB>Line in M10). I had to crank the M10 gain to 10 (wide open) just to get -20 to -12 levels.

I'm going to try this thing out this weekend - https://www.soundprofessionals.com/instructions/SP-PREAMP-5.html

So, it has three gain settings, something like 0, 29 and 50). Am I correct the the best way to use a preamp like this is to set the gain on the M10 to 3 and then use the gain knob on the pre to get it to the desired levels?

Any help appreciated.
Mics: ADK A51s; AT4041; Line CM3; Superlux S502; CK91 active w/homebrew BB; AT853; Naiant X-X; Nak 300's
Recorders: M10; DR-60D; DR-70D

Offline lsd2525

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Re: Battery box vs. preamp for M10
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2018, 12:40:54 PM »
The preamp instructions say     "Set the recording level to the maximum setting in the ‘manual recording’ mode (some recorders are always in manual mode). The recording level should be at maximum for the best overall dynamic range and lowest signal to noise ratio."

Is that correct? That seem counter-intuitive to me
Mics: ADK A51s; AT4041; Line CM3; Superlux S502; CK91 active w/homebrew BB; AT853; Naiant X-X; Nak 300's
Recorders: M10; DR-60D; DR-70D

Online nulldogmas

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Re: Battery box vs. preamp for M10
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2018, 01:00:38 PM »
What mics did you use with the UBB and the M10? I've found that with lowish-sensitivity mics (say, CA-14 cards) in that scenario, it's often better to use the mic in at a low gain setting than to go line in. (And the mic in is very clean on the M10, so long as you're using an external power source and not plug-in power.)

Not that this answers your actual question, but you know, FYI...

Offline lsd2525

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Re: Battery box vs. preamp for M10
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2018, 01:03:46 PM »
Sorry, AT853's. I ran line in at a loud show with the UBB and it brickwalled like hell.

Just trying to figure out if it's normal to have a recorder's gain set to max and then control the levels with the pre
Mics: ADK A51s; AT4041; Line CM3; Superlux S502; CK91 active w/homebrew BB; AT853; Naiant X-X; Nak 300's
Recorders: M10; DR-60D; DR-70D

Offline heathen

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Re: Battery box vs. preamp for M10
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2018, 01:09:55 PM »
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | AT AE5100s | AT853s (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3s | DPA 4061s | CA-14 omnis | Studio Projects CS5
Pre: CA9200
Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05 | Tascam DR-2d

Offline Cheesecadet

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Re: Battery box vs. preamp for M10
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2018, 01:14:06 PM »
Hoping someone can point me in the right direction. Last night, I used (successfully, for the first time) a Church UBB (AT853>UBB>Line in M10). I had to crank the M10 gain to 10 (wide open) just to get -20 to -12 levels.

I'm going to try this thing out this weekend - https://www.soundprofessionals.com/instructions/SP-PREAMP-5.html

So, it has three gain settings, something like 0, 29 and 50). Am I correct the the best way to use a preamp like this is to set the gain on the M10 to 3 and then use the gain knob on the pre to get it to the desired levels?

Any help appreciated.

I keep my M10 @ 4 when running a pre in front of it Line In.

29 is pretty high gain setting for the minimum besides 0.  If you have it at set 0 you will likely have the m10 dial 8-9 to get decent levels.
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Offline lsd2525

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Re: Battery box vs. preamp for M10
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2018, 01:18:24 PM »
Hoping someone can point me in the right direction. Last night, I used (successfully, for the first time) a Church UBB (AT853>UBB>Line in M10). I had to crank the M10 gain to 10 (wide open) just to get -20 to -12 levels.

I'm going to try this thing out this weekend - https://www.soundprofessionals.com/instructions/SP-PREAMP-5.html

So, it has three gain settings, something like 0, 29 and 50). Am I correct the the best way to use a preamp like this is to set the gain on the M10 to 3 and then use the gain knob on the pre to get it to the desired levels?

Any help appreciated.

I keep my M10 @ 4 when running a pre in front of it Line In.

29 is pretty high gain setting for the minimum besides 0.  If you have it at set 0 you will likely have the m10 dial 8-9 to get decent levels.

Yep, 29.

Selecting the proper gain range

Your new preamplifier has adjustable gain, in 3 ranges, and is controlled by a small toggle switch. The 9vdc “plug in power” feature is present in all gain ranges. The “0dB” gain range is used for loud recordings, when you don’t need any additional amplification. With this range, the audio signal is not amplified. The “29dB” gain range is used for most recording situations (moderately loud to fairly soft). The “50dB” gain range is used for extremely quiet recording situations.

 

For best results, use the lowest gain range that adequately drives the line input of your recorder to an acceptable level. Using a gain range that is too high will result in overloading of the preamplifier input, called “Brickwalling”. In general, you want to use the least amount of amplification necessary to obtain a line level signal to drive your recording device.
Mics: ADK A51s; AT4041; Line CM3; Superlux S502; CK91 active w/homebrew BB; AT853; Naiant X-X; Nak 300's
Recorders: M10; DR-60D; DR-70D

Offline earmonger

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Re: Battery box vs. preamp for M10
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2018, 01:03:29 AM »
Sorry, AT853's. I ran line in at a loud show with the UBB and it brickwalled like hell.


The battery box provides way less amplification than a preamp (or maybe the same as a preamp at 0?). If it's already brickwalling with the UBB you want to keep the gain on the PCM-M10 pretty low--definitely not at max.

Online nulldogmas

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Re: Battery box vs. preamp for M10
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2018, 10:16:30 AM »
Sorry, AT853's. I ran line in at a loud show with the UBB and it brickwalled like hell.


The battery box provides way less amplification than a preamp (or maybe the same as a preamp at 0?). If it's already brickwalling with the UBB you want to keep the gain on the PCM-M10 pretty low--definitely not at max.

Do your AT853s have the low-sens mod? I'm wondering if it could be the mics that are brickwalling, not the recorder.

Offline DSatz

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Re: Battery box vs. preamp for M10
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2018, 09:27:24 AM »
> The preamp instructions say "Set the recording level to the maximum setting in the ‘manual recording’ mode (some recorders are always in manual mode). The recording level should be at maximum for the best overall dynamic range and lowest signal to noise ratio."

The editor must have been asleep at the wheel that day, since normally we want the highest, not the lowest, signal-to-noise ratio.

> Is that correct? That seem counter-intuitive to me

Yes, it is counter-intuitive. Whether it's correct or not can only be found out either (a) the professional way, by gathering full technical specifications for each component in each relevant setting, or (b) the way we are often forced to do it, by testing (not at an important concert, I hope).

It would certainly be unusual for any ordinary equipment from a major manufacturer. But when you use gear that's less formally produced, it may not conform to the same expectations. So the answer is that "more information would be needed."

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

 

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