Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Location Location Location  (Read 2216 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1456
Location Location Location
« on: May 16, 2018, 03:24:20 PM »
Lately I've been trying to make an effort to think more about getting the best location in a venue first, and then gear tailored to that location second (rather than the other way around...I find I'm more inclined to think of gear first and foremost).  I think it's fairly well-established that decent gear in the perfect location will make a better-sounding recording than superb gear in a mediocre location.  (One thing that opened my eyes to this is the Audience Recording Hall of Fame thread...that Pink Floyd show from '77 was recorded on mics that most people on here would avoid if given the choice, yet 40 years later it still sounds great, which I can only assume is a testament to the taper picking the optimal location rather than having the best mics in existence.)  So, what I've been trying to think about is: what gear best facilitates me getting set up in the optimal location?

One important caveat here is that, when possible, I prefer to mount my mics on something other than myself.  That's just my own personal preference, of course, and not some rule that I think should apply to everyone.  I can and do stealth shows with mics on my person, but given the choice I'd rather avoid that.

One of the things that I have found (in my admittedly limited experience compared to most tapers on here) that limits where I can set up is my mic stands.  I use mic stands with the three legs in the bottom section, like many on here.  Those obviously take up space because of their footprint, but they also can be tripped over in a dark and crowded venue.  Obviously, mounting mics on my person is a way to prevent this, but see my caveat above.  Another potential solution is using a clamp or securing the stand to something so the legs don't need to be extended.  The limitation with this approach is the need to have something to clamp onto...if that something isn't in the ideal location, then it's not terribly helpful.

That leaves alternative mic stand designs.  One that doesn't present as much of a tripping hazard is the mic stand with a heavy base.  Those heavy bases, however, present problems in terms of portability (does anyone feel that they want to make their bag heavier than it already is?) and questions from security when bringing gear in.  Another possibility is a monopod.  There's virtually no tripping hazard with a monopod, but the big downside is that it can't stand up on its own.  You're left to either recruit a very willing helper, or keep one hand on the monopod throughout the show.  I have seen some monopods with little feet that can extend at the bottom, but those don't seem nearly stable enough to be trusted on their own in a dark and crowded venue.

A context I have in mind for this whole issue is a show where maybe taping is allowed, but they want you to set up in a less-than-ideal location (so you try to get set up in the sweet spot instead, but have to keep a low profile).  That or some of the shows where might have no trouble bringing in whatever gear you want, but you still have to keep your setup inconspicuous.

Unfortunately I don't have any silver bullet answer, and am more looking for input from others about how to tailor your setup towards prioritizing location.  This is not to suggest that anyone on here just sets up wherever is most convenient and doesn't consider where the sweet spot might be.  Keep in mind I'm thinking of my own tendency to focus on gear first, which maybe others succumb to at times as well.

(I know I've focused a lot on how to mount mics, but I recognize there are other considerations as well.  For example, it's easier to set up anywhere with a more compact setup...actives, IPAs, and M10 versus bigass LDs, outboard preamp, and 788T.)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 04:28:43 PM by heathen »
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | AT AE5100s | AT853s (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3s | DPA 4061s | CA-14 omnis | Studio Projects CS5
Pre: CA9200
Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05 | Tascam DR-2d

Offline rippleish20

  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 718
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2018, 03:33:09 PM »


I started taping in 79 and stopped for a long time after Jerry Garcia died. I got back into taping four years ago, but streamed shows live for two years before that using a phone. I'm telling you all of this because it confirmed to me that location is, in many ways, more important that equipment. The beauty of hand streaming with a phone is that you can easily get in the sweet spot. Going to a full rig makes things a lot more challenging as it's unusual to be able to setup the sweet spot with a stand and equipment. Because of all the talking at shows I try first to get SBD patches and this locks you in even more to a location that may not be good for audience recordings. 
MK22's / MK41's / AKG C480Bs+ck61, ck63, ck8 / Telefunken FET M60 Cards & Hypers (for sale) / DPA 4061's
KCY 250/5 and 250/0 > naiant PFA or IPA or Nbox 
Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Sony M-10 / Tascam DR-100mkIII / d:vice

Offline ycoop

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 284
  • Gender: Male
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2018, 03:40:28 PM »


I started taping in 79 and stopped for a long time after Jerry Garcia died. I got back into taping four years ago, but streamed shows live for two years before that using a phone. I'm telling you all of this because it confirmed to me that location is, in many ways, more important that equipment. The beauty of hand streaming with a phone is that you can easily get in the sweet spot. Going to a full rig makes things a lot more challenging as it's unusual to be able to setup the sweet spot with a stand and equipment. Because of all the talking at shows I try first to get SBD patches and this locks you in even more to a location that may not be good for audience recordings.

What’s your general approach to getting a patch?

Given my current external mic-less set up, I figure my best chance at a good recording consists of a patch+well placed portable recorder internal. Haven’t figured out how to secure the patch part though.
Avantone CK-1s > DR-60d mkII, DR-22wl

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1456
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2018, 03:46:08 PM »
Getting a board patch isn't the solution in all cases, though.  Lots of bands that allow audience recording don't allow board patches.  Even when a band allows a board patch, the feed you get could have any number of problems (I'm sure we've all been there). 
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | AT AE5100s | AT853s (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3s | DPA 4061s | CA-14 omnis | Studio Projects CS5
Pre: CA9200
Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05 | Tascam DR-2d

Offline lsd2525

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2074
  • Gender: Male
  • Eschew obfuscation
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2018, 03:56:23 PM »


I started taping in 79 and stopped for a long time after Jerry Garcia died. I got back into taping four years ago, but streamed shows live for two years before that using a phone. I'm telling you all of this because it confirmed to me that location is, in many ways, more important that equipment. The beauty of hand streaming with a phone is that you can easily get in the sweet spot. Going to a full rig makes things a lot more challenging as it's unusual to be able to setup the sweet spot with a stand and equipment. Because of all the talking at shows I try first to get SBD patches and this locks you in even more to a location that may not be good for audience recordings.

What’s your general approach to getting a patch?

Given my current external mic-less set up, I figure my best chance at a good recording consists of a patch+well placed portable recorder internal. Haven’t figured out how to secure the patch part though.

1. Research. Some bands are known to be patch friendly. Reach out to band or manager beforehand if possible.
2. Talk to the soundguy. Try to be there before soundcheck if possible.
3. Be prepared with the right kind of cables. I usually find the need for female XLR's, but all boards are not the same.

If you keep going to the same venue a lot, get the know the house soundguy. He/she will be familiar with the board, and may or may not be willing to allow a patch regardless of what the band thinks.

Some of the newer digital board will even let you download directly to a thumb drive

Given my current external mic-less set up, I figure my best chance at a good recording consists of a patch+well placed portable recorder internal. Haven’t figured out how to secure the patch part though.
[/quote]
Mics: ADK A51s; AT4041; Line CM3; Superlux S502; CK91 active w/homebrew BB; AT853; Naiant X-X; Nak 300's
Recorders: M10; DR-60D; DR-70D

Offline nulldogmas

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 773
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2018, 04:00:13 PM »
It depends so much on the venue — I have an entirely different plan (short stand, tall stand, no stand, mics on hat, mics strung from ceiling pipe, etc.) depending on where I'm recording. Every time a new music space opens, I have to fight my disappointment: "I don't want to go there! I don't know how much masking tape to bring!"

Offline rippleish20

  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 718
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2018, 04:04:56 PM »
My current thinking is a board patch and microphones on stage are the best thing to shoot for in my case. I happen to record a lot of shows of a musician where I can get board patches. Yes, they vary widely in quality and mix but incessant talking is worse to me than a weak soundboard.  For bands I know less about, I look into whether they allow patches and, if they seemingly do, I just ask nicely. Or I talk to the FOH and feel them out. I have had a harder time getting microphones on stage (there are many unhelpful Sound Engineers, often a lack of space, etc) but that's what I am shooting for. It takes some effort in many cases but simply asking will often get you further than you think. 

I think audience recordings can be better than soundboards but, really, the talking thing makes it very difficult these days. I still always record using microphones no matter what but sometimes it's not even worth the effort.

In scenarios where I can't get a patch, I am thinking more about using stealthier equipment so I can record closer up. Or, in some places, situation my equipment right in front of a speaker stack. You can often get closer up if you re willing to be to the side. At the Brooklyn Bowl, for example, most people record from a spot about half way up the right side (or in the case of Zman, the left side). There is a small area that is somewhat protected and you are much closer to the right stack of speakers...

Several people I have encountered get to be freinds with the FOH in their local venue and are able to get microphones permanently mounted in a spot closer up and above the crowd. You might be able to do this at Be On Key, for example. 


 
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 04:11:45 PM by rippleish20 »
MK22's / MK41's / AKG C480Bs+ck61, ck63, ck8 / Telefunken FET M60 Cards & Hypers (for sale) / DPA 4061's
KCY 250/5 and 250/0 > naiant PFA or IPA or Nbox 
Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Sony M-10 / Tascam DR-100mkIII / d:vice

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1456
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2018, 04:20:22 PM »
You might be able to do this at Be On Key, for example.

With a bar clamp like you suggested in the other thread I think I'll be set at Be On Key.  The spot I used last time seems good to me, though for some shows I imagine on stage will be better (Scott's on stage DPA recording of Garaj Mahal smokes mine, for example!).

Something specific that got me thinking about the subject of this thread is an upcoming show at the Ogden.  It's a decent-sized theater in Denver, and when I've taped there it has been behind the SBD.  While I thought the sound was fine in that spot, for an upcoming show I want to try the FOB railing.  I've heard, though, that the venue prefers people to record from behind the SBD.  While I'll certainly do that if they ask me to, I'm thinking that if I can keep my setup as low profile as possible (hence no big mic stand towering above the crowd and taking up space on the floor with its legs) then maybe they won't mind.  My plan is to bring my normal mic stand, but try to secure it to the railing so I don't need to unfold the legs.  If I do need to set up behind the SBD, though, I'll still be able to use the mic stand in its normal configuration.  (The band in question definitely does not allow SBD patches, FWIW.)
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | AT AE5100s | AT853s (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3s | DPA 4061s | CA-14 omnis | Studio Projects CS5
Pre: CA9200
Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05 | Tascam DR-2d

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1456
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2018, 04:33:12 PM »
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | AT AE5100s | AT853s (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3s | DPA 4061s | CA-14 omnis | Studio Projects CS5
Pre: CA9200
Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05 | Tascam DR-2d

Offline jefflester

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 869
  • Gender: Male
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2018, 04:57:52 PM »
I have seen some monopods with little feet that can extend at the bottom, but those don't seem nearly stable enough to be trusted on their own in a dark and crowded venue.
I've seen one of these, don't know what kind, though. Three little metal feet (think 1/4" diameter rod) extend out about a foot each, and flat (or nearly) to the ground. Seems like using something like that and then gaff taping them to the floor would solve most of the stability issues.

Like this, but hopefully a little taller since this is only 66 inches. These feet store up inside the tube, there are others were the feet fold down on the outside.
DPA4061 HEB/AT943 -> CA-UGLY -> R-09
Samson C02/Superlux S502/iSK Little Gem -> DR-680MKII
AKG CK63 -> AKG C460B -> DR-680MKII
AKG CK63 -> nBob actives -> Baby NBox -> R-09/DR2d

Offline jcable77

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 541
  • Gender: Male
  • Needs to stay in more...
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2018, 07:03:34 PM »
I have seen some monopods with little feet that can extend at the bottom, but those don't seem nearly stable enough to be trusted on their own in a dark and crowded venue.
I've seen one of these, don't know what kind, though. Three little metal feet (think 1/4" diameter rod) extend out about a foot each, and flat (or nearly) to the ground. Seems like using something like that and then gaff taping them to the floor would solve most of the stability issues.

Like this, but hopefully a little taller since this is only 66 inches. These feet store up inside the tube, there are others were the feet fold down on the outside.

I grabbed one of these at Mikes photo in boulder last time i was out there for $50. I was in a pinch and needed something. I think that image is a little weird, its upside down. Its a decent extension for 50 bucks, but yeah youd most likely want the longer manfrotto extension with the footing.
Telefunken m60’s tk60’s,61’s,62’s Teac me-120’s(c,o)
AKG 480’s ck61’s>akg active naiant pfa’s>
V-3,Sound Devices 302,Mini-Me’s
Mixpre 6, pmd661
ISO- a pair of ck62’s

Offline kindms

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4611
    • The Breakfast
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2018, 07:55:26 PM »
great mics in a shit location is only going to make it sound EXACTLY like it does in that shit

so yes location location location is indeed A numero uno

but to your point about floyd. the other thing to consider is those guys spent A LOT of $ and time to make sure their shows sounded awesome.

its why the dead tapes sound as awesome as they do etc.

its a combination of whats coming out of the PA or stage #1 > Location >EQ

IMHO.

not every band has the budget or inclination to care about the audio quality of their shows. And for sure 70s - 80s floyd was sometimes losing money on those tours if you can believe that. the amount of gear etc they were hauling around was ridiculous

think about the wall of sound. can you imagine the tear down and build for that monstrosity ? I bet those guys were soooo pumped when line arrays etc hit the scene.
AKG414 XLS/ST, AKG ck61, ck22, >nBob colettes >PFA > V3, SD MixPre >  TCM-Mod Tascam HDP2, Sony M10
Little Bear tube Pre >Outlaw Audio 2200 Monoblocks > VR-2's

Offline daspyknows

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3238
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't ask, don't tell, don't get get caught
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2018, 10:21:07 PM »
Totally agree with you kindms.  The best recordings are made when taping from the best location using the best gear when recording a band that really gives a shit about their sound.  The Dead always did and of the current touring bands I think Roger Waters consistently does the best job with their sound system.  I was amazed how good Oracle Arena sounded last year.  Barclay's Arena sounded equally as good and I was warned beforehand to temper my expectations.  I have recorded many shows at Oracle in basically the same seats and there was no comparison.   If the band doesn't give a shit about the sound then location and gear can only do so much. 

In many (dare I say most) cases the best sounding spot is not where a venue will let you put up a stand if taping is allowed so that is a limiting factor.  If I could run mics on a stand from the sweet spot with a bunch of big dudes blocking that would make the best recordings (U2 Joshua Tree Tour 1987 where we ran on a stand 7 feet high FOB with venue security "busting" us if the band saw us and multiple blockers) but taping is often making compromises.  My preference would be to wear the gear in the right spot rather than use a stand in a sub-optimal location.

Listening to some of those classic recordings is why many of us got into this hobby and pulling comparable recordings today is the holy grail.   


Offline goodcooker

  • Trade Count: (25)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2611
  • Gender: Male
  • goes to 11
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2018, 09:02:28 AM »

For the last few years I have used a Super Clamp and articulating arm setup far more than I have used a stand. I can setup on railings, conduit, table edges, chair backs or legs, monitor handles, etc...

Taking up zero floor space makes the venue and patrons happier and I am more likely to be able to get in the spot that I want with the gear I need. I'm also able to roam around and not have to worry about someone tripping over my stand legs. It's always a trade off - I may get to a space where I get the right balance of stage and PA sound but get more talkers or be closer to a wall or balcony overhang than I would like.

In one venue in particular I use an unusual setup of a flex arm wedged into the handle of a monitor and cables run around the lip of the stage to backstage where the wireless soundboard is and also take a patch from there when available.
Schoeps MK41 > nBob > PFA || MBHO KA300 > PFA
Aerco MP2 || Grace Lunatec V2 || RAD MS2
Marantz PMD706 || PMD620

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

"Are you the Zman?" - fan at Panic 10-08-10 Kansas City

"I don't know who left this perfectly good inflatable wook doll here, but if I'm blowing her up, I'm keeping her." -  hoppedup

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12409
  • Gender: Male
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2018, 09:30:02 AM »
Yes, location, location, location.

Miniature gear and creative rigging expand one's location possibilities, and help one consider recording spots and setups which might otherwise come to mind.  The other side of the equation is finding the most appropriate location of those available.  Sometimes it's obvious, but many times not.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1456
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2018, 09:52:47 AM »

For the last few years I have used a Super Clamp and articulating arm setup far more than I have used a stand.


In one venue in particular I use an unusual setup of a flex arm wedged into the handle of a monitor and cables run around the lip of the stage to backstage where the wireless soundboard is and also take a patch from there when available.

Do you have any pictures of these setups?
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | AT AE5100s | AT853s (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3s | DPA 4061s | CA-14 omnis | Studio Projects CS5
Pre: CA9200
Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05 | Tascam DR-2d

Offline goodcooker

  • Trade Count: (25)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2611
  • Gender: Male
  • goes to 11
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2018, 10:09:40 AM »

I can snap some pics when I get home tonight. I'm packing for a move but I think I have everything within easy reach.
Schoeps MK41 > nBob > PFA || MBHO KA300 > PFA
Aerco MP2 || Grace Lunatec V2 || RAD MS2
Marantz PMD706 || PMD620

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

"Are you the Zman?" - fan at Panic 10-08-10 Kansas City

"I don't know who left this perfectly good inflatable wook doll here, but if I'm blowing her up, I'm keeping her." -  hoppedup

Offline rocksuitcase

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4931
  • Gender: Male
    • RockSuitcase: stage photography
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2018, 01:51:45 PM »

For the last few years I have used a Super Clamp and articulating arm setup far more than I have used a stand.


In one venue in particular I use an unusual setup of a flex arm wedged into the handle of a monitor and cables run around the lip of the stage to backstage where the wireless soundboard is and also take a patch from there when available.

Do you have any pictures of these setups?
Heathen, check out this thread: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=186393.0            for good shot of superclamp on drink rail, plus two mic mount views of the articulated arm.
Here is the link I used to buy it (also discussed in the rigging and clamping thread): https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/354218-REG/Manfrotto_196AB_2_196AB_2_Articulated_Arm.html
Pick up or use one you already own: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546376-REG/Manfrotto_037_037_Reversible_Short_Stud.html OR
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/824427-REG/Impact_srp_104_Short_Double_Male_Hex.html

Once kindms figured out the ends of each arm are different thread sizes so you can use one end with one thread size and the other end with the alternate thread size, we realized the true value of this thing. (caveat- It is short, less than 24 inches when fully extended)
As aaronji told me, be careful which one you buy , they have a double articulated arm which is much HEAVIER than this one.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 02:01:56 PM by rocksuitcase »
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1456
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2018, 01:58:56 PM »
Great info, thanks!
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | AT AE5100s | AT853s (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3s | DPA 4061s | CA-14 omnis | Studio Projects CS5
Pre: CA9200
Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05 | Tascam DR-2d

Offline goodcooker

  • Trade Count: (25)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2611
  • Gender: Male
  • goes to 11
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2018, 02:34:22 PM »

Once kindms figured out the ends of each arm are different thread sizes so you can use one end with one thread size and the other end with the alternate thread size, we realized the true value of this thing. (caveat- It is short, less than 24 inches when fully extended)

It took me a while to realize that one end is 1/4 thread and the other is 3/8 so with that reversible stud + 5/8 adapter I can mount just about anything. Also handy for switching from mic mounts to video camera gear.
Schoeps MK41 > nBob > PFA || MBHO KA300 > PFA
Aerco MP2 || Grace Lunatec V2 || RAD MS2
Marantz PMD706 || PMD620

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

"Are you the Zman?" - fan at Panic 10-08-10 Kansas City

"I don't know who left this perfectly good inflatable wook doll here, but if I'm blowing her up, I'm keeping her." -  hoppedup

Offline DSatz

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (29)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 2550
  • Gender: Male
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2018, 04:13:43 PM »
I just would like to chime in and endorse the realization that the OP in this thread is describing. I wish that everyone would realize this.

That is all.

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline tedyun

  • Trade Count: (27)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 418
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2018, 01:19:23 PM »
Hi heathen

When I started taping, I had a similar problem in that the legs of my stand would be a tripping hazard. It worked out best if I could set up close to a wall or roped off area, and I could position two of the legs in low traffic areas, and just protect the one leg.

I also came up with another solution. It looks a bit bizarre but it works. Some SoCal tapers have seen me with this set up. My day job is a scientist, and a while ago, when the company I was working at  shuttered its doors, I was able to rescue some lab items before they went into the trash. One is a heavy duty lab stand, typically used for suspending instruments. Then I have three "talon" clamps. I can clamp my light stand using the talon clamps, then secure those clamps onto the stand.

This way, all I need to protect is the base, which is a rectangular plate. It's a very tight footprint. I usually put my foot on it, put my bag on it, or slide it under the roped off area, or table, etc.

The drawback is that it can't handle too much weight like this. An pair of full bodied mics are fine, but if I want to add a video cam, another set of mics, etc, it starts to be a little too much.

It also breaks down very easily. The pole unscrews from the base, so I can put the base and clamps into my backpack, and the pole goes into the same bag as the mic stand.

But to your point about location, here in the Bay Area, the venues I've been to have hassled me about my stand, no matter how small the footprint and they make me set up in non ideal places. So I've reverted to hatting the mics to get to a better position.

Ted


Lately I've been trying to make an effort to think more about getting the best location in a venue first, and then gear tailored to that location second (rather than the other way around...I find I'm more inclined to think of gear first and foremost).  I think it's fairly well-established that decent gear in the perfect location will make a better-sounding recording than superb gear in a mediocre location.  (One thing that opened my eyes to this is the Audience Recording Hall of Fame thread...that Pink Floyd show from '77 was recorded on mics that most people on here would avoid if given the choice, yet 40 years later it still sounds great, which I can only assume is a testament to the taper picking the optimal location rather than having the best mics in existence.)  So, what I've been trying to think about is: what gear best facilitates me getting set up in the optimal location?

One important caveat here is that, when possible, I prefer to mount my mics on something other than myself.  That's just my own personal preference, of course, and not some rule that I think should apply to everyone.  I can and do stealth shows with mics on my person, but given the choice I'd rather avoid that.

One of the things that I have found (in my admittedly limited experience compared to most tapers on here) that limits where I can set up is my mic stands.  I use mic stands with the three legs in the bottom section, like many on here.  Those obviously take up space because of their footprint, but they also can be tripped over in a dark and crowded venue.  Obviously, mounting mics on my person is a way to prevent this, but see my caveat above.  Another potential solution is using a clamp or securing the stand to something so the legs don't need to be extended.  The limitation with this approach is the need to have something to clamp onto...if that something isn't in the ideal location, then it's not terribly helpful.

That leaves alternative mic stand designs.  One that doesn't present as much of a tripping hazard is the mic stand with a heavy base.  Those heavy bases, however, present problems in terms of portability (does anyone feel that they want to make their bag heavier than it already is?) and questions from security when bringing gear in.  Another possibility is a monopod.  There's virtually no tripping hazard with a monopod, but the big downside is that it can't stand up on its own.  You're left to either recruit a very willing helper, or keep one hand on the monopod throughout the show.  I have seen some monopods with little feet that can extend at the bottom, but those don't seem nearly stable enough to be trusted on their own in a dark and crowded venue.

A context I have in mind for this whole issue is a show where maybe taping is allowed, but they want you to set up in a less-than-ideal location (so you try to get set up in the sweet spot instead, but have to keep a low profile).  That or some of the shows where might have no trouble bringing in whatever gear you want, but you still have to keep your setup inconspicuous.

Unfortunately I don't have any silver bullet answer, and am more looking for input from others about how to tailor your setup towards prioritizing location.  This is not to suggest that anyone on here just sets up wherever is most convenient and doesn't consider where the sweet spot might be.  Keep in mind I'm thinking of my own tendency to focus on gear first, which maybe others succumb to at times as well.

(I know I've focused a lot on how to mount mics, but I recognize there are other considerations as well.  For example, it's easier to set up anywhere with a more compact setup...actives, IPAs, and M10 versus bigass LDs, outboard preamp, and 788T.)
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
Video: Canon HF100

Offline Perry

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 425
  • Gender: Male
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2018, 02:04:07 PM »
Just brainstorming here... http://digitalhippie.net/mountain-biking/diy-gopro-mtb-backpack-mount/

You should make one- so when we finally meet at a show I'll be able to recognize you.

Seriously, I'm in the same place you are right now. I gave up a sbd patch last week so I could get the mics in a (much) better position. Glad I did it too. I grabbed a table in the sweet spot and placed my mic stand so two of the three legs were under the table, the third leg was a tripping hazard and the tables were pretty close to each other. What I wished for at that moment was a way to attach my stand to the table top so I could fold all of the legs in and still have the height I needed. Sorta like using bungee cords to secure your stand to the drink rail, but clamped to the table top. All i need to do is figure out a way to attach a superclamp to the stand at table-top height, then clamp it to the table.

I tried a stand with 3 short, 1/4" diameter rods for legs- very unstable at 6', even with AT853's. I was outdoors and had to hold onto that thing for 6 hours.
"It hurts to lean back in handcuffs..."
^^~~~~~~~Todd Snider~~~~~~~^^

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1456
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2018, 02:08:59 PM »
tedyun, you've given me a whole new category of stands to look into!

What I wished for at that moment was a way to attach my stand to the table top so I could fold all of the legs in and still have the height I needed.

The other day I was looking at the Lowel stands that allow the legs to fold flat and flush with the surface it's standing on.  That seems like a reasonable approach, as the "footprint" is somewhat mitigated by the legs not sticking up and catching feet.  Legs that fold flat could also sit nicely on a table top.

I found mention of the Lowel stands in an old thread or two on here, but I don't remember seeing any final word on whether they're stable enough with the legs flat.
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | AT AE5100s | AT853s (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3s | DPA 4061s | CA-14 omnis | Studio Projects CS5
Pre: CA9200
Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05 | Tascam DR-2d

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12409
  • Gender: Male
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2018, 02:32:57 PM »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1456
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2018, 03:00:46 PM »
To borrow a commonly-used phrase among Magic: the Gathering players...

Seems good.
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | AT AE5100s | AT853s (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3s | DPA 4061s | CA-14 omnis | Studio Projects CS5
Pre: CA9200
Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05 | Tascam DR-2d

Offline Perry

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 425
  • Gender: Male
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2018, 06:19:35 PM »
tedyun, you've given me a whole new category of stands to look into!

What I wished for at that moment was a way to attach my stand to the table top so I could fold all of the legs in and still have the height I needed.

The other day I was looking at the Lowel stands that allow the legs to fold flat and flush with the surface it's standing on.  That seems like a reasonable approach, as the "footprint" is somewhat mitigated by the legs not sticking up and catching feet.  Legs that fold flat could also sit nicely on a table top.

I found mention of the Lowel stands in an old thread or two on here, but I don't remember seeing any final word on whether they're stable enough with the legs flat.

Ah crap, my stand will do that (legs flat). I wish I would have remembered that last week. It's stable in that configuration too. Here's what I'm using: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EO4WRNG/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 With a baby extension I can reach 10'.
"It hurts to lean back in handcuffs..."
^^~~~~~~~Todd Snider~~~~~~~^^

Offline kindms

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4611
    • The Breakfast
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2018, 08:37:43 PM »
Just brainstorming here... http://digitalhippie.net/mountain-biking/diy-gopro-mtb-backpack-mount/

You should make one- so when we finally meet at a show I'll be able to recognize you.

Seriously, I'm in the same place you are right now. I gave up a sbd patch last week so I could get the mics in a (much) better position. Glad I did it too. I grabbed a table in the sweet spot and placed my mic stand so two of the three legs were under the table, the third leg was a tripping hazard and the tables were pretty close to each other. What I wished for at that moment was a way to attach my stand to the table top so I could fold all of the legs in and still have the height I needed. Sorta like using bungee cords to secure your stand to the drink rail, but clamped to the table top. All i need to do is figure out a way to attach a superclamp to the stand at table-top height, then clamp it to the table.

I tried a stand with 3 short, 1/4" diameter rods for legs- very unstable at 6', even with AT853's. I was outdoors and had to hold onto that thing for 6 hours.

manfrotto extension and superclamp. this is next on my wish list

AKG414 XLS/ST, AKG ck61, ck22, >nBob colettes >PFA > V3, SD MixPre >  TCM-Mod Tascam HDP2, Sony M10
Little Bear tube Pre >Outlaw Audio 2200 Monoblocks > VR-2's

Offline goodcooker

  • Trade Count: (25)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2611
  • Gender: Male
  • goes to 11
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2018, 11:27:01 AM »

 All i need to do is figure out a way to attach a superclamp to the stand at table-top height, then clamp it to the table.

You can mate two superclamps together and clamp one to the table and one to the stand. If you get the angles right it's very sturdy.
Schoeps MK41 > nBob > PFA || MBHO KA300 > PFA
Aerco MP2 || Grace Lunatec V2 || RAD MS2
Marantz PMD706 || PMD620

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

"Are you the Zman?" - fan at Panic 10-08-10 Kansas City

"I don't know who left this perfectly good inflatable wook doll here, but if I'm blowing her up, I'm keeping her." -  hoppedup

Offline edtyre

  • Trade Count: (58)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1993
  • Gender: Male
  • Team Philly " No Excuses, Just Tapes"
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2018, 04:28:47 PM »
  My preference would be to wear the gear in the right spot rather than use a stand in a sub-optimal location.

^^ This
music>mics>pre>recorder

Offline jcable77

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 541
  • Gender: Male
  • Needs to stay in more...
Re: Location Location Location
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2018, 07:07:56 PM »

 All i need to do is figure out a way to attach a superclamp to the stand at table-top height, then clamp it to the table.

You can mate two superclamps together and clamp one to the table and one to the stand. If you get the angles right it's very sturdy.
As far sturdying up a stand to something this works great clamped to a stand with a superclamp on the other end to whatever you can find thats solid. I always plug this thing cuz i use it more than stands or anything else.
https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwi5kcz795zbAhVXucAKHbFjB8YYABAKGgJpbQ&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESQOD2piKXSr9gPDzHi9e1Dv05bjKsQSFJpyzxikIAtuEIEO2sDi7TNkF-2gww1CXMqgha7rUNfhYLOXTawFrecAs&sig=AOD64_2qHM0bDwkAACeIZGiPTRwVMBUOzA&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwjkyMT795zbAhVL6IMKHSv2DLYQwg8ILg&adurl=
Telefunken m60’s tk60’s,61’s,62’s Teac me-120’s(c,o)
AKG 480’s ck61’s>akg active naiant pfa’s>
V-3,Sound Devices 302,Mini-Me’s
Mixpre 6, pmd661
ISO- a pair of ck62’s

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.296 seconds with 58 queries.
© 2002-2018 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF