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Author Topic: What is KCY?  (Read 2988 times)

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Offline TheMetalist

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What is KCY?
« on: May 19, 2018, 09:28:18 PM »
I'll probably make a fool of myself for asking this but I need to know.
It's not about fancy equipment. It's about the thrill, passion and hard work. Liberate the music!

"The music is your passport - Your magic key - To all the madness that awaits you." B.L. '86

Offline twatts (pants are so over-rated...)

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2018, 09:47:12 PM »
"Schoeps KCY 250/5 IG 16.4' Active Stereo Cable for MK Capsules"

https://tinyurl.com/y8gwuo8d

Terry
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Offline TheMetalist

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2018, 09:56:12 PM »
"Schoeps KCY 250/5 IG 16.4' Active Stereo Cable for MK Capsules"

https://tinyurl.com/y8gwuo8d

Terry

Thank you, Terry!

So that's the official Schoeps active cables? Does it have any advantages against the Nbob active cables?

My Nbox has a ta6 connector and I guess KCY has some other connector?
It's not about fancy equipment. It's about the thrill, passion and hard work. Liberate the music!

"The music is your passport - Your magic key - To all the madness that awaits you." B.L. '86

Offline tim in jersey

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2018, 10:43:28 PM »
The KCY terminates in a mini Binder plug and was originally designed to be run with either the VST 62 IU or VMS 5 U preamps also manufactured by Schoeps. The active/pre combo eliminates the need for the mic bodies

Schoeps also makes another active cable, the KC5 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/386428-REG/Schoeps_KC_5G_Active_Extension_Cable.html), which runs between the mic caps and mic bodies...


Offline twatts (pants are so over-rated...)

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2018, 11:05:51 PM »
"Schoeps KCY 250/5 IG 16.4' Active Stereo Cable for MK Capsules"

https://tinyurl.com/y8gwuo8d

Terry

Thank you, Terry!

So that's the official Schoeps active cables? Does it have any advantages against the Nbob active cables?

My Nbox has a ta6 connector and I guess KCY has some other connector?

I'm not familiar enough with the Schoeps line-up to comment.  Sorry...

Terry
***Do you have PHISH, VIDA BLUE, JAZZ MANDOLIN PROJECT or any other Phish related DATs/Tapes/MDs that need to be transferred???  I can do them for you!!!***

I will return your DATs/Tapes/MDs.  I'll also provide Master FLAC files via DropBox.  PM me for details.

Sony PCM R500 > SPDIF > Tascam HD-P2
Nakamichi DR-3 > (Oade Advanced Concert Mod) Tascam HD-P2
Sony MDS-JE510 > Hosa ODL-276 > Tascam HD-P2

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Offline jbell

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2018, 09:46:01 AM »
The KCY cable uses a binder 711!

https://www.binder-usa.com/subminiature-circular-connectors-m9-ip40-cable-plug-connector-10.html

Nick can make cables in the kcy format for schoeps or other caps!  I have a Nbob Microtech Gefell KCY cable.  If I am remembering correctly I believe I have seen Nbob kcy cable for AKG caps as well.  It is a different powering format than the traditional Nbob cables. 

"Schoeps KCY 250/5 IG 16.4' Active Stereo Cable for MK Capsules"

https://tinyurl.com/y8gwuo8d

Terry

Thank you, Terry!

So that's the official Schoeps active cables? Does it have any advantages against the Nbob active cables?

My Nbox has a ta6 connector and I guess KCY has some other connector?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 09:56:23 AM by jbell »
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2018, 10:03:48 PM »
I've owned both official Schoeps kcy and the nbob version. I like Nicks cable much more for 😈. It is much more flexible than the kcy although still sturdy.

Metalist, how will you power mics? You need either an nbob>Nbox or baby nbox>p48 deck, or nbob>Naiant ipa>m10. Or pick up a naiant pfa and run into a larger p48 deck. Personally I like to go small so I run my nbob into an nbox or baby nbox, and zero battery worries. Note that the baby nbox does not provide gain you have to run mic in to the m10 to get good levels. Which shouldn't be hard to do with the music you seem to tape. Apparently Schoeps>baby nbox>m10 won't set off wands a bonus. I like my IPA a lot but I detest tossing the a23 batteries after each show, I don't trust it to run more than eight hours so you can squeeze two uses. So when it arrives hoping I can replace the IPA with the baby nbox.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 10:34:12 PM by MakersMarc »
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

Home: the Stereo Hospital budget refurb rig: Lappie>DragonFly Red with Jitterbug>Nikko NR520 amp>B&W V202 speakers. Hi Fi Goodwill style.

Offline rippleish20

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2018, 10:28:57 PM »
Everything I use is KCY based - nbox, ipa, cables, etc. Nick told me he could indeed make a KCY AKG active cable.
Schoeps CMC6 (MK22's, MK41's) / AKG C480B (ck61, ck63, ck8) / DPA (4061) / Neumann KM100 (AK40, AK50) / Audio Technica AT4050ST/ AT853s  (cardiod, omni) / CA-14 (cardiod) / CA-11 (Omni)
KCY 250/5 and 250/0 > naiant PFA or IPA or Nbox 
Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Mixpre-3 /Roland R-07 /Tascam DR-100mkIII / d:vice

Offline TheMetalist

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2018, 02:17:35 AM »
I've owned both official Schoeps kcy and the nbob version. I like Nicks cable much more for 😈. It is much more flexible than the kcy although still sturdy.

Metalist, how will you power mics? You need either an nbob>Nbox or baby nbox>p48 deck, or nbob>Naiant ipa>m10. Or pick up a naiant pfa and run into a larger p48 deck. Personally I like to go small so I run my nbob into an nbox or baby nbox, and zero battery worries. Note that the baby nbox does not provide gain you have to run mic in to the m10 to get good levels. Which shouldn't be hard to do with the music you seem to tape. Apparently Schoeps>baby nbox>m10 won't set off wands a bonus. I like my IPA a lot but I detest tossing the a23 batteries after each show, I don't trust it to run more than eight hours so you can squeeze two uses. So when it arrives hoping I can replace the IPA with the baby nbox.

I have the Nbox Platinum ABS so this will be my lineage:

Schoeps MK41V > Nbob active cables (TA6 connector) > Nbox Platinum ABS > Sony M10.
It's not about fancy equipment. It's about the thrill, passion and hard work. Liberate the music!

"The music is your passport - Your magic key - To all the madness that awaits you." B.L. '86

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2018, 04:58:19 AM »
does the same thing as other actives

if you can find one cheap get with nick. might save you dough over habinh him make you new ones

originally was for use with VMS02IB i beleive
in:
small: MK4/4V > CMR > V3 or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K/R07/PCM-A10/Oade Warm 661/DR100-MKIII

smaller: 4061/4099 CORE> d:vice MMAs

new kid on the block: 4011/4018 > MMP-G actives > d:vice

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home:Benchmark DAC1 HGC > Dynaudio BM15A active monitors
shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

Offline DSatz

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2018, 02:10:37 AM »
Schoeps cables generally have names starting with K for the German word "Kabel". Their regular 10-meter microphone cable with XLR connectors is the K 10 U, for example.

Schoeps invented and patented active extension accessories (flexible cables and goosenecks, as well as thin, rigid tubes) in 1973-74 as a cornerstone of their new "Colette" microphone series. Colette active cables were given the product name KC --, where the "--" represented the length of the cable in meters, e.g. KC 5 or KC 10. Those are single-channel cables.

The KCY is a later product--a two-channel KC. Since it is a "Y"-shaped cable, the "Y" was made part of the name. I believe it was introduced near the very end of the 1980s; it was definitely listed in the 1992 catalog. It is actually just the "front half" of a stereo KC --; its matching "back half" is the AK I/2 C, which accepts the Binder plug from the KCY and attaches to a pair of CMC -- amplifiers, such as the CMC 5-- or CMC 6--.

--best regards
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 02:12:19 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline Sebastian

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2018, 04:59:35 AM »
I was always wondering what the exact technical difference between the KC and KCY cables are. Is the KCY just the same as two KC cables joined together into one cable instead of two, or do these cables actually have different circuitry?

Also, I just wanted to check what KCYs cost these days compared to a pair of KC5s, but I could not find it on Schoeps' official price list (which they have on their new web site). Apparently they don't have a product page for it either. Has it been discontinued?
Schoeps { MK6 | MK41V } > NBob actives > {Naiant Tinybox v2.0 | Naiant IPA | Naiant PFAs} > {Zoom F8 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d | Olympus LS-P1}

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Live Music Archive | DaD Torrents | TTD Torrents | Etree Torrents

Offline jbell

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2018, 12:13:28 PM »
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/963147-REG/schoeps_kcy_250_5_lg_kcy_250_5_ig_16_4.html/?ap=y&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImp2gm-GV3wIVzFuGCh1nngANEAQYASABEgKCEPD_BwE&lsft=BI%3A514&smp=Y

I was always wondering what the exact technical difference between the KC and KCY cables are. Is the KCY just the same as two KC cables joined together into one cable instead of two, or do these cables actually have different circuitry?

Also, I just wanted to check what KCYs cost these days compared to a pair of KC5s, but I could not find it on Schoeps' official price list (which they have on their new web site). Apparently they don't have a product page for it either. Has it been discontinued?
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline morst

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2018, 04:52:02 PM »

Hm, I thought that the Schoeps "actives" were balanced, and the Neumanns were not, but that B&H link says this:
"Note: Due to its unbalanced signal arrangement, the output cable should not be longer than necessary."




https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/963147-REG/schoeps_kcy_250_5_lg_kcy_250_5_ig_16_4.html/?ap=y&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImp2gm-GV3wIVzFuGCh1nngANEAQYASABEgKCEPD_BwE&lsft=BI%3A514&smp=Y


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Offline DSatz

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2018, 07:14:53 PM »
To answer a number of accumulated questions:

Schoeps KC -- cables have fixtures on each end: one for the capsule and one for the amplifier. There's really no way to extend such a cable.
  • For a few years Schoeps sold KC cables with Lemo plugs that allowed an extension cable to be added in, or the Lemo could be plugged into an adapter that screwed directly on to a CMC amplifier, or there was a neat little mixer that up to four of the Lemos could be plugged into (back then, Schoeps also made lavalier microphones with Lemo outputs, so they could be mixed via those mixers as well--see flyer below; at the moment I can't seem to find it in English, but if anyone has questions, let me know). -- The Lemos were fiddly and the mixers were expensive and didn't sell well, so the whole Lemo adventure came to an end within a handful of years. They are not missed.
A KCY is like a pair of just the capsule ends of two KC cables, which join together in a little junction box and terminate in a Binder plug. Please see http://schoepsclassics.de/1989_compact_system.htm - the plug end of a KCY could be plugged into a VST 62 stereo amplifier (body), any of a number of VMS preamps, a Lemosax preamp, or certain highly regarded homebrew preamps that are sold on this forum. But the KCY doesn't have fixtures for a pair of CMC amplifiers. For that you'd need to attach an AKI 2C, which is a Y cable that goes "in the opposite direction" and has a Binder socket input, a junction box, and two cables that terminate in fixtures that fit onto CMC amplifiers. You can then run a Binder-to-Binder extension cable between the two Y cables, but the total length of that cable should be kept reasonable, since it's all unbalanced.

I don't know of any extension cables that run between a condenser microphone's capsule and amplifier that are balanced. They aren't intended for use in high RF environments by today's standards, especially if multiple cell phones are right near the capsule or the cable. If that's a concern, I suggest the Schoeps CCM series although it isn't modular.

For that matter, most "active" cables, other than those from Schoeps, aren't even really active--they contain no circuitry that provides gain. I've complained for years about the misuse of the term "active", but only some people have taken it to heart.

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline morst

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2018, 01:47:49 PM »

For that matter, most "active" cables, other than those from Schoeps, aren't even really active--they contain no circuitry that provides gain. I've complained for years about the misuse of the term "active", but only some people have taken it to heart.
I call my Neumann set "Remote cables" but don't use them, ever since I tested them with my MixPre6 and heard all kinds of crazy noise I never noticed with the old recorders.
This:
>They aren't intended for use in high RF environments by today's standards, especially if multiple cell phones are right near the capsule or the cable.
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Offline jbell

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2018, 04:50:49 PM »
Gordon runs AK40's > LC3 > PFA > Mixpre-6 without any noise issues!  I wouldn't think the recorder would introduce noise.


For that matter, most "active" cables, other than those from Schoeps, aren't even really active--they contain no circuitry that provides gain. I've complained for years about the misuse of the term "active", but only some people have taken it to heart.
I call my Neumann set "Remote cables" but don't use them, ever since I tested them with my MixPre6 and heard all kinds of crazy noise I never noticed with the old recorders.
This:
>They aren't intended for use in high RF environments by today's standards, especially if multiple cell phones are right near the capsule or the cable.
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline morst

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2018, 12:03:13 AM »
Gordon runs AK40's > LC3 > PFA > Mixpre-6 without any noise issues!  I wouldn't think the recorder would introduce noise.

Mine have Lemo connectors midway. I'm gonna look into it on a test bench at some point, but I rarely need the remote feature anyhow.
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Offline DSatz

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Re: What is KCY?
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2018, 12:34:42 PM »
jbell wrote:

> I wouldn't think the recorder would introduce noise.

The output circuit of any device is generally one of the main inputs for radio-frequency interference, if special measures aren't taken to prevent it. This is true for power amplifiers in hi-fi and public address systems, for example, as well as microphones.

The whole field of electronic design has had been forced to change fundamentally in response to the greatly increased levels of RF in recent years--also the increasing use of higher and higher frequency bands, and aggressive signaling methods that produce high annoyance factors when they leak in to an audio signal. There is no longer any such thing as a competent audio design engineer who only understands audio-frequency electronics; an understanding of radio-frequency electronic design is now absolutely necessary, just so that you can keep your device from accidentally being an RF detector / amplifier*. And a lot of equipment that was perfectly OK for many years is no longer OK in a growing set of operating environments.

* footnote added later: This reminds me of a recording session that I did about 20 years ago in a suburb of NYC. There was a "heterodyne"--a steady, single high-frequency tone--in the background of the signals from my microphones. I started rearranging my mike cables to find the arrangement with the lowest noise pickup, and then it occurred to me that as a ham radio operator, I knew a little about the design and construction of antennas, and that my goal now should be to apply that knowledge in reverse, to make the worst possible HF antenna with my cable configuration. So I systematically sabotaged everything about the arrangement that would make for a good antenna, and that did the trick.

And a P.S.: Neumann made two generations of extension accessories (cables, goosenecks, thin rigid tubes) for the KM 100 series, specifically because they were confronted with this issue. The first generation was "more modular" in that the cables terminated in Lemo plugs that allowed for extension cables; you would buy a single KA 100 adapter for each mike body, and plug the Lemo of the device (or the extension cable attached to the device) into it. The second generation was more RF-resistant because it did away with the Lemo connectors and the KA 100, so the shielding was continuous from end to end. The costs generally balanced out if you only wanted one type of extension for a given microphone, since that included the hard-wired amplifier adapter part while omitting the Lemo. But people who wanted more than one type of extension device available per microphone, or extendable extension devices, had to stick with the old series and take the higher risk of interference.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2018, 12:13:06 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

 

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