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Author Topic: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?  (Read 1386 times)

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Offline ycoop

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Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« on: June 04, 2018, 09:01:27 PM »
Subject says it all.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 12:44:49 AM by ycoop »
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Offline kindms

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2018, 09:18:10 PM »
like everything it depends

no hvac or other smoke considerations ? probably not
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Offline obaaron

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2018, 09:24:01 PM »
I alway bring, but rarely use unless there are fans/hvac nearby as stated above. Of course there is less protection for the capsules if the stand goes down or any fluids are thrown etc.
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Offline tim in jersey

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2018, 10:40:23 PM »
I run screens indoors at every show that isn't 007 especially @ venues I am unfamiliar with.

I once taped an indoor show during the summer. I was all set up band takes the stage, they lowered the house lights and then turned on these gigantic ceiling fans on full blast. One of these happened to be directly above my rig. I got some minor wind noise. Ever since then I run the screens "just in case"...

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2018, 10:53:18 PM »
I run small windscreens inside "just in case."

Other than possible wind noise from A/C, fans, etc, I also like that it (somewhat) protects the caps if the stand were to get knocked over.
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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2018, 11:33:21 PM »
Indoors I'll run the small screens if I expect some HVAC "wind."  For places I know that won't be an issue, I'll let the mics go naked.
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Offline DSatz

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2018, 12:38:51 AM »
someone mentioned smoke--wind and pop screens are made of open-pore foam (as you would certainly hope!), and provide only incidental protection from smoke, dust and other airborne particulate matter. Condenser microphone capsules operate on the exact same principle as electrostatic air cleaners, except that they also have audio outputs.

Actually, come to think of it, that may be a point in favor of RF condenser microphones.

--best regards
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Offline ycoop

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2018, 12:54:04 AM »
Follow up question: any recs for cheap windscreens that’s will fit SDCs with a capsule diameter of 7/8”?
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Offline DSatz

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2018, 01:26:31 AM »
Most microphones are made in countries that use the metric system, so the question is then, who makes 22 mm-diameter microphones?

Neumann widened their KM series from 21 to 22 mm a number of years ago, so their WNS 100 and WNS 110 would be candidates, though they aren't cheap. OTOH if you buy cheap imitations, you don't know what they're doing to the high frequency response of your microphones. It seems silly to spend hundreds of dollars for microphones, then spoil their performance unnecessarily to save $10 on the cost of a windscreen.
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Offline morst

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2018, 02:43:39 AM »
WATCH OUT FOR CEILING FANS!

Follow up question: any recs for cheap windscreens that’s will fit SDCs with a capsule diameter of 7/8”?
I've been using these DPA UA0896 on my Neumann KM100 series, and just replaced my old set after 18-odd years. The new ones are way puffier than my old crushed-down ones!

DPA Microphones UA0896 Windscreen for 0.75" (19mm) Microphones
Currently $40 for a pair of them at a large NYC online shop.

Interestingly, I now notice this comment:
"This windscreen works excellently whether used indoors or out, but is best suited for short-range vocal performances"


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Offline ycoop

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2018, 03:16:44 AM »
Most microphones are made in countries that use the metric system, so the question is then, who makes 22 mm-diameter microphones?

Neumann widened their KM series from 21 to 22 mm a number of years ago, so their WNS 100 and WNS 110 would be candidates, though they aren't cheap. OTOH if you buy cheap imitations, you don't know what they're doing to the high frequency response of your microphones. It seems silly to spend hundreds of dollars for microphones, then spoil their performance unnecessarily to save $10 on the cost of a windscreen.

$50 on windscreens for mics I spent $200 on seems equally silly to me. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2018, 09:42:16 AM »
Quote
$50 on windscreens for mics I spent $200 on seems equally silly to me.

They are two seperate devices, with separate cost/performance curves.  Most important is that a windscreen fits correctly and performs appropriately.  Cost of the appropriate screen should be weighed against how well it achieves those goals.

Why should the cost of the microphone have anything at all to do with the cost of the windscreen? As analogy- does one decide which microphone to use based upon concert ticket cost?



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Offline noahbickart

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2018, 09:52:45 AM »

$50 on windscreens for mics I spent $200 on seems equally silly to me. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you spend less, but the inferior product renders your recording unlistenable due to wind rumble, your $200 microphone is worthless.
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Offline Gordon

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2018, 09:58:15 AM »
these are great for my neumanns for most indoor shows.  I would never run them outside!  one venue here has a big ass fan and the DPA's are needed indoors.  Outside I used to use BAS now I use Movo's.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/650865-REG/Rycote_104414_18_32_Small_Diaphragm_Mic.html
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Offline kindms

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2018, 10:01:00 AM »
Most microphones are made in countries that use the metric system, so the question is then, who makes 22 mm-diameter microphones?

Neumann widened their KM series from 21 to 22 mm a number of years ago, so their WNS 100 and WNS 110 would be candidates, though they aren't cheap. OTOH if you buy cheap imitations, you don't know what they're doing to the high frequency response of your microphones. It seems silly to spend hundreds of dollars for microphones, then spoil their performance unnecessarily to save $10 on the cost of a windscreen.

$50 on windscreens for mics I spent $200 on seems equally silly to me. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Welcome to taping :)

windscreens, stand, clamps, cables etc etc will all start to appraoch your mics costs even if you go super budget everytime. The accessories add up fast.

AKG w32 will probably fit your mics. Or you could just go big ass shures if you think you will do a bunch of outdoor taping. That way you only buy 1 set for the time being
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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2018, 10:07:02 AM »
Directional mics? absolutely, yes.
Omni's? not so much, unless there is a heavy HVAC presence.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2018, 10:15:45 AM »
I don't always use them indoors, whether I do or not depends on lots of things including all the reasons mentioned above.

Or you could just go big ass shures if you think you will do a bunch of outdoor taping. That way you only buy 1 set for the time being

Even though BAS might seem costly and overkill for inside, using the same screen everywhere can be advantageous for a couple reasons-
You can determine then start from the same base-line high-frequency EQ correction for all recordings, and BAS provides substantial protection from impact and "accidental indoor beverage precipitation" and the like.
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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2018, 10:16:50 AM »
what if wind screens dont fit your microphones?
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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2018, 10:44:37 AM »

I currently use the DPA UA0896 indoors and the Movo WST50 outdoors. Inexpensive indoor screens like the Rycotes that Gordon linked to are usually adequate for indoor HVAC or fans blowing your way.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/282432-REG/DPA_Microphones_UA0896_UA0896_Windscreen_for_0_75.html?sts=hist-pi

https://www.amazon.com/Movo-Professional-Windscreen-Technology-Microphones/dp/B00YHTUCQM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1528209237&sr=8-1&keywords=movo+wstt50

I almost always have some kind of screen on even indoors when I don't anticipate the need for moving air protection. I've mellowed out and don't go to as many rowdy shows as I used to but there is always the possibility some one will throw a beer or something equally goofy. If my mics are up in the air I'm not as worried but if on the stage lip I get a little nervous since I'm not typically hovering over them.
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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2018, 11:59:02 AM »
Take your mics down to the local Guitar Center or music store and just by a cheap pair to cover them.  You shouldn't pay a lot because the plastic bag them come is doesn't say Neumann or Schoeps on it.
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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2018, 12:23:26 PM »
"accidental indoor beverage precipitation" and the like.
^^^^^^^^ This is not as uncommon as we would like to think!
To answer the OP- I generally always use windscreens indoors, the small ones if possible, but the BAS Shure A81WS are the Go-To screens. You just never know when the HVAC system will kick in or some bar has fans on the ceiling or sidewalls. (looking at you Tipitinas!)
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Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2018, 01:25:32 PM »
I can only think of one or two times that I have not used windscreens indoors. And a few times where I wish I was running bigger screens indoors due to fans or HVAC vents. Easier to put on a screen than worry about it or have a recording screwed up by wind noise.

Movo WSTT50 might replace my Big Ass Shures with Dead rats, but I'll need to have more confidence before I commit.

You can find the right size of a small windscreen on the wind tech web site. http://www.windtech.tv/
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Offline capnhook

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2018, 01:45:29 PM »


A pair of MOVO WSTT50's is less than the price of a couple of good pizzas, Rory....go for it..!

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Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2018, 01:45:44 PM »
Oh, I have them already. And have used them indoors when needed due to fans and HVAC. Just not sure about outdoors yet where the BAS and rats have treated me so well over the years. Why mess with success?
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 03:00:24 PM by vanark »
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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2018, 01:47:47 PM »
Yep, go with what works, until it's broken.  ;D :cheers:

Yay, got smileys back..

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Offline Gordon

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2018, 02:14:09 PM »
My BAS literally fell apart so I decided to switch it up and try the movo's.  one show out of about 10 or so with just a tad of noise and it was crazy windy!
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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2018, 02:19:05 PM »
I keep my capsules in windscreens while transporting them but don't use them inside.
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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2018, 04:18:10 PM »
I keep my capsules in windscreens while transporting them but don't use them inside.
That's what mashed down my old 0896s.
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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2018, 05:14:50 PM »
Another vote for the Movo WSTT50. They are bomber. Thanks, capnhook for the recommendation a while back. They go on the mics every time.

https://www.movophoto.com/products/movo-wstt50-premium-quality-ballistic-nylon-windscreen-shotgun
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Offline Gordon

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2018, 06:02:13 PM »
Another vote for the Movo WSTT50. They are bomber. Thanks, capnhook for the recommendation a while back. They go on the mics every time.

https://www.movophoto.com/products/movo-wstt50-premium-quality-ballistic-nylon-windscreen-shotgun

I'm sure it's here somewhere but how do those compare to the movo WS80 (furry ones)?
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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2018, 06:14:31 PM »
Another vote for the Movo WSTT50. They are bomber. Thanks, capnhook for the recommendation a while back. They go on the mics every time.

https://www.movophoto.com/products/movo-wstt50-premium-quality-ballistic-nylon-windscreen-shotgun

I'm sure it's here somewhere but how do those compare to the movo WS80 (furry ones)?

I'm not sure, but I have used the WSTT 50s outdoors during pretty heavy wind that I was sure would ruin the tape and never heard a thing. They are both under $16 a piece with free shipping, so I may buy some WS80s when I buy more microphones.
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Offline Gordon

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2018, 06:29:02 PM »
I have the ws80's and have been happy.  I posted this earlier.....

Quote
one show out of about 10 or so with just a tad of noise and it was crazy windy!

I switched earlier than I thought and so it's probably more like 20 shows but I did have some noise recently.  it wasn't bad but I hate wind noise!  now that said even the BAS would let through a tad if it got too bad out.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 08:12:14 PM by Gordon »
Neumann ak40 > Nick mod lc3 > Naiant PFA or km140 > Sound Devices MixPre-6

https://archive.org/details/fav-gordonlw

Offline vanark

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Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2018, 07:58:39 PM »
I heard the non-fuzzy ones are better than the fuzzy ones for heavy wind.
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Offline goodcooker

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2018, 08:26:18 PM »
Another vote for the Movo WSTT50. They are bomber. Thanks, capnhook for the recommendation a while back. They go on the mics every time.

https://www.movophoto.com/products/movo-wstt50-premium-quality-ballistic-nylon-windscreen-shotgun

I'm sure it's here somewhere but how do those compare to the movo WS80 (furry ones)?

I used the WST50s this weekend and the gusts were prob 25 mph at the worst times and 15 mph fairly steadily. No wind noise.
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Offline Gordon

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2018, 10:59:48 AM »
so the WST50s are 3cm.  looking back at my order for the ws80 I got 6cm.  not sure why but assume someone here told me to  ???  ;D   so the 3cm will be fine for the ak caps?  just measured and that would put the end on the inside flush with the end of the cap and won't cover the part where the active screws in (rain protection).  I always thought there should be space between end of cap and the screen but I really have no idea.....
Neumann ak40 > Nick mod lc3 > Naiant PFA or km140 > Sound Devices MixPre-6

https://archive.org/details/fav-gordonlw

Offline goodcooker

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2018, 03:15:37 PM »
so the WST50s are 3cm.  looking back at my order for the ws80 I got 6cm.  not sure why but assume someone here told me to  ???  ;D   so the 3cm will be fine for the ak caps?  just measured and that would put the end on the inside flush with the end of the cap and won't cover the part where the active screws in (rain protection).  I always thought there should be space between end of cap and the screen but I really have no idea.....

The AK active connector is a little longer than the nbob/Schoeps or the MBHO active cartridges that I use but I'm guessing they would probably fit but possibly not cover the threads. Mine cover all the way out to the end of the collette. 

 Having a gap at the capsule front to help trap some still air sure wouldn't hurt - so since you probably wouldn't be getting anything much smaller or more effective I would roll with what you have.
Schoeps MK41 > nBob > PFA || MBHO KA300 > PFA
Aerco MP2 || RAD MS2
Marantz PMD706 || PMD620

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"I don't know who left this perfectly good inflatable wook doll here, but if I'm blowing her up, I'm keeping her." -  hoppedup

Offline Gordon

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2018, 04:03:15 PM »
thanks.  with the 6cm there's a little less than an inch or so in front of the cap.  looks like the wst80 is the close to  the same as the 50 except 6cm so an inch bigger.

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« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 04:05:05 PM by Gordon »
Neumann ak40 > Nick mod lc3 > Naiant PFA or km140 > Sound Devices MixPre-6

https://archive.org/details/fav-gordonlw

Offline kindms

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Re: Are windscreens a necessity for indoor shows?
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2018, 07:41:33 AM »
revisiting this thread.

So friday night running akgck1 > nbob. the akg w32's that were ordered had not arrived but the big shures did so decided since no other choice would run those

ceiling fans going full tilt and about 15 minutes in to the set GIANT AC starts blowing. Nothing on the recording

had i had the smaller screens i probably would have left the shures behind. Was a new venue for me so was going in blind. lesson learned again.
AKG414 XLS/ST> TCM-Mod Tascam HDP2
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