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Offline rigpimp

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What are your "holy grail" mics?
« on: August 03, 2018, 05:49:56 PM »
I cut my teeth on Neumann 140's and ultimately ditched them and moved on to a few different pairs of Schoeps. 

With that said, if I could get a clean pair of Neumann KM254's with capsules and AC701's in decent shape I would probably sell everything that I had.  I cannot imagine the cost of sourcing diaphragm re-sputtering or a white box mic-grade AC701's but with the amount of acoustic music that I have recorded these are my holy grail.

Dreamy.   :spin:

Next?
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6, Sony PCM-M10
Playback: McIntosh MC 2105 > McIntosh MX 130 > Von Schweikert VR-4 JR
http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider

Offline heathen

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2018, 06:05:43 PM »
I haven't found them yet  :(

I love the high end and midrange of my AT4031s (yeah they're cheap, don't laugh), but I feel like they could use a bit of help in the low end.  Also, they're obviously not available in an "active" style setup.  My ideal mics would probably have the midrange and high end clarity of the AT4031s, a bit more oomph in the bass, and be in a small form factor like the Schoeps Colette caps (but without needing to rely on third party components to achieve that form factor).  Something like the form factor of the Line Audio CM3 would be perfect (no need for special adapter cables, just plug in a couple XLRs and run it).  Even smaller than that would be better, of course.

If something that fits this bill exists, I'd love to hear about it!
« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 06:07:52 PM by heathen »
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | AT AE5100s | AT853s (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3s | DPA 4061s | CA-14 omnis | Studio Projects CS5 Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05 | Tascam DR-2d

Offline Gordon

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2018, 06:48:37 PM »
original km 84i's or u87's, 89's but I will never ever run LD's after having an active setup.  had the ak40's for 11 years now so I'm pretty stuck in my ways.  just wish the ak50's were to my liking for hypers.......
« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 06:50:43 PM by Gordon »
Neumann ak40 > Nick mod lc3 > Naiant PFA or km140 > Sound Devices MixPre-6

https://archive.org/details/fav-gordonlw

Offline Gordon

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2018, 06:56:37 PM »
that said I really am digging the m20 active setup but Jbell has them and no need for us to run identical rigs when we tape together.  maybe I'll buy his when he goes back to the darkside! >:D
Neumann ak40 > Nick mod lc3 > Naiant PFA or km140 > Sound Devices MixPre-6

https://archive.org/details/fav-gordonlw

Offline Gordon

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2018, 07:03:18 PM »
Neumann KM254's


not familiar with those but man I love the JGB shows with the km 54's!  have a really nice Cowboy Junkies as well done with those and the original grace 316 pre

https://archive.org/details/cj1994-04-14.km54.flac16
Neumann ak40 > Nick mod lc3 > Naiant PFA or km140 > Sound Devices MixPre-6

https://archive.org/details/fav-gordonlw

Offline rigpimp

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2018, 07:46:43 PM »
Neumann KM254's


not familiar with those but man I love the JGB shows with the km 54's!  have a really nice Cowboy Junkies as well done with those and the original grace 316 pre

https://archive.org/details/cj1994-04-14.km54.flac16

Those KM54's were Chuck's.  Last time I saw him taping the Radiators in SF he was still using them.  They had the finish worn off of them and he told me it was because he used to hold them in his armpits to record all of those JGB shows.   :crazy:

The KM254's were used by Sandy Alexander for quite a while.  You could just search his name on the LMA.  I am pretty sure that Burgin got Sandy's mics from Stella.  Hopefully he is using them.

Here is a good start: 
https://archive.org/details/sci1999-03-20.km254.shnf, or
https://archive.org/details/ymsb1999-10-02.shnf

https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A"Sandy+Alexander"
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6, Sony PCM-M10
Playback: McIntosh MC 2105 > McIntosh MX 130 > Von Schweikert VR-4 JR
http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider

Offline DSatz

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2018, 11:47:33 PM »
rigpimp, the original capsules for the KM 54 and 254 were made with nickel-foil diaphragms. By the time Neumann discontinued the KM 50 series at the end of the 1960s, they had already introduced their "linear admittance" K 64 capsule, which has been their stock in trade ever since; it was used in the KM 64 and U 64 (both from 1964), then the KM 74, KM 84, KM 140, KM 184, and finally the KK 184 of the current KM A/KM D series. This capsule type featured a new, grooved backplate design that greatly improved its off-axis linearity--and as with all but one of Neumann's microphone models from the late 1950s until 2000, it used a gold-sputtered Mylar membrane. (I'm attaching the page from Gotham Audio's brochure about the U 64 that lauds this new capsule.)

I mention this because your microphones don't have original K 54 capsules, but rather this latter type of capsule, attached via a retrofit kit ("KA 32/3-54") that Neumann offered once they ran out of the original type. The KM 54 was Neumann's first microphone to sell in the tens of thousands, and since nickel foil is very delicate, K 54 capsules needed replacing rather frequently. A strong gust of wind, or some bozo blowing into the mike to see whether it was "on" or not, could destroy them. Once Neumann stopped making those capsules, they soon ran out of them as replacement parts, but there were still many, many KM 54s in the field. So they came up with a kit that allowed a K 64 to be grafted onto KM 54 (and 254) microphones. The result is what you show in your photo. Most KM 54 and 254 microphones that you see on eBay also have this kit installed. For comparison, I'm also attaching a photo of a stock KM 54; it doesn't have the large, "RF-proof" Tuchel connector of the 254, but it has the original capsule head.

Since with this type of microphone the capsule determines far more of the sound quality and other acoustical properties (e.g. polar response) than its electronics do, your microphones are sonically much closer to the KM 64 (which was also AC 701k-based) and KM 84 than they would be to a KM 54 or 254 that has an original capsule. Again for comparison, attached are the response curves of the KM 54/254 with its original capsule; the on-axis high-frequency response rises quite a bit more, and the polar diagrams aren't as uniform across the frequency range.

--best regards

P.S.: Re-reading the U 64 text after a number of years, I see that Stephen Temmer (obviously the author--his pomposity is unmistakable) missed a few things, and not just the spelling of "synonymous". Number one, the acoustical delay ("phase shift") is not directly behind the membrane assembly; rather, it is situated behind the capacitive backplate of the capsule. Number two, a pure cosine function would yield a figure-8 pattern! Cardioid response is defined by (1 + cos theta) / 2 -- expressing the fact that a cardioid is the superposition of one-half omni (= 1, since the response is unity regardless of the arrival angle) and one-half figure-8 (= cos theta). -- Mr. Temmer was extremely picky and contentious, often writing letters to the editors of various audio publications to dispute points which were at times quite minor. I'm sure he would be appalled at getting called out like this, but tough luck, Mr. T.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 12:39:57 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline kindms

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2018, 07:55:16 AM »
I have always wanted an AKG C422 and the like

also that schoeps M/S deathstar setup
AKG414 XLS/ST, AKG ck61, ck22, >nBob colettes >PFA > V3, SD MixPre >  TCM-Mod Tascam HDP2, Sony M10
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Offline gormenghast

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2018, 09:02:39 AM »
Neumann KM254's


not familiar with those but man I love the JGB shows with the km 54's!  have a really nice Cowboy Junkies as well done with those and the original grace 316 pre

https://archive.org/details/cj1994-04-14.km54.flac16

And the Grace 316  :o

The SKB KM254 is one of my favorite "sounding" Kimock recordings, but I wonder about the dispute whether the mics were onstage or not.

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Offline jbell

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2018, 09:53:36 AM »
I doubt I'll ever return!!  Any large show I would attend there will be 15 sets of Schoeps anyways.  Nice to bring a different flavor.  There aren't a lot of people running the M20's

that said I really am digging the m20 active setup but Jbell has them and no need for us to run identical rigs when we tape together.  maybe I'll buy his when he goes back to the darkside! >:D
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 09:56:34 AM by jbell »
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline pohaku

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2018, 11:25:36 AM »
Km84s.  Have one and would love at least another.  Have representatives of most of the other SD mic food groups (Gefell, Sennheiser, Schoeps).  LD mics are another story, but are less used for taper purposes.  Of course, one can never have enough mics.
Mics: akg c460 (ck61, ck63), c414buls, c568eb; at4049a, 4051a, 4053a, at853; josephson c42; neumann U87, km84i; beyer m130, m160, m500; aea r84; gefell m71, mt711s, m200, m201; sony c38; schoeps cmc6, CMBI (mk4, mk21, mk41, mk4v); sennheiser mkh30, mkh40, md421, md431, md541
Pres: API, a-designs, pendulum, purple, millennia, gt, littlebox, tinybox, usbpre2, CA 9200, pipsqueak, grace V2, pueblo pending
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2018, 12:58:00 PM »
DPA 4022 will always be first for me. Only switched to Schoeps because the DPA actives can't  hold up to regular handling, not to mention 😈 Wear and tear. I've found the Schoeps nbob cabling to be far sturdier so far. Had to have DPA active shorts repaired five times then a capsule died.
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>nbox platinum>620

Also Oade warm mod 661, two functional HHB portadats and a Fostex D5 that works when it wants to.

Offline rigpimp

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2018, 01:33:29 PM »
rigpimp, the original capsules for the KM 54 and 254 were made with nickel-foil diaphragms. By the time Neumann discontinued the KM 50 series at the end of the 1960s, they had already introduced their "linear admittance" K 64 capsule, which has been their stock in trade ever since; it was used in the KM 64 and U 64 (both from 1964), then the KM 74, KM 84, KM 140, KM 184, and finally the KK 184 of the current KM A/KM D series. This capsule type featured a new, grooved backplate design that greatly improved its off-axis linearity--and as with all but one of Neumann's microphone models from the late 1950s until 2000, it used a gold-sputtered Mylar membrane. (I'm attaching the page from Gotham Audio's brochure about the U 64 that lauds this new capsule.)

I mention this because your microphones don't have original K 54 capsules, but rather this latter type of capsule, attached via a retrofit kit ("KA 32/3-54") that Neumann offered once they ran out of the original type. The KM 54 was Neumann's first microphone to sell in the tens of thousands, and since nickel foil is very delicate, K 54 capsules needed replacing rather frequently. A strong gust of wind, or some bozo blowing into the mike to see whether it was "on" or not, could destroy them. Once Neumann stopped making those capsules, they soon ran out of them as replacement parts, but there were still many, many KM 54s in the field. So they came up with a kit that allowed a K 64 to be grafted onto KM 54 (and 254) microphones. The result is what you show in your photo. Most KM 54 and 254 microphones that you see on eBay also have this kit installed. For comparison, I'm also attaching a photo of a stock KM 54; it doesn't have the large, "RF-proof" Tuchel connector of the 254, but it has the original capsule head.

Since with this type of microphone the capsule determines far more of the sound quality and other acoustical properties (e.g. polar response) than its electronics do, your microphones are sonically much closer to the KM 64 (which was also AC 701k-based) and KM 84 than they would be to a KM 54 or 254 that has an original capsule. Again for comparison, attached are the response curves of the KM 54/254 with its original capsule; the on-axis high-frequency response rises quite a bit more, and the polar diagrams aren't as uniform across the frequency range.

--best regards

P.S.: Re-reading the U 64 text after a number of years, I see that Stephen Temmer (obviously the author--his pomposity is unmistakable) missed a few things, and not just the spelling of "synonymous". Number one, the acoustical delay ("phase shift") is not directly behind the membrane assembly; rather, it is situated behind the capacitive backplate of the capsule. Number two, a pure cosine function would yield a figure-8 pattern! Cardioid response is defined by (1 + cos theta) / 2 -- expressing the fact that a cardioid is the superposition of one-half omni (= 1, since the response is unity regardless of the arrival angle) and one-half figure-8 (= cos theta). -- Mr. Temmer was extremely picky and contentious, often writing letters to the editors of various audio publications to dispute points which were at times quite minor. I'm sure he would be appalled at getting called out like this, but tough luck, Mr. T.

Incredibly valuable info, thank you.  I know there is someone that re-does the nickel capsules but was unaware of the Neumann retrofit to the newer capsules, as visually evident in the random internet photo I grabbed.  I appreciate the education!    :coolguy:
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6, Sony PCM-M10
Playback: McIntosh MC 2105 > McIntosh MX 130 > Von Schweikert VR-4 JR
http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider

Offline obaaron

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2018, 03:01:54 PM »
I too would love to have a set of the KM 54 or 254s amazing recordings have been made with those vintage mics. Now for something more in my price range (not really lol) I wouldnt mind having an AKG c422 or 426, or a set of vintage c61 tubes
Mics:  Gefell M20,M21/sms2000/nbob | Schoeps MK4V/cmc6/nbob | AKG c460b/c480b/a60/Naiant actives - ck61,62,63,69 ;ck1,3,8;ck1x,2x,3x | Neumann KM140's | AT853, AT933 | CA-11c,o
Pres: Naiant Littlebox | Tinybox | BMod Edirol UA-5 | Church ST-9200
Recorders:  Zoom F8 | Tascam DR-680 | Tascam DR-60D | Sony PCM-M10
Video: Canon VIXIA HF R42

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Offline gormenghast

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2018, 07:01:57 PM »
I too would love to have a set of the KM 54 or 254s amazing recordings have been made with those vintage mics. Now for something more in my price range (not really lol) I wouldnt mind having an AKG c422 or 426, or a set of vintage c61 tubes

I never heard any C61 recordings other than Kimock onstage--Pat Cooper's I believe.  I always went after these recordings when they became available.
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2018, 07:29:41 PM »
Ok I kind of want Microtech Gefells. They are sort of the Acura of mics not splashy but really neutral and just solid. I’ve never run Neumann’s either but have always been fond of KM 140 tapes.
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>nbox platinum>620

Also Oade warm mod 661, two functional HHB portadats and a Fostex D5 that works when it wants to.

Offline DSatz

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2018, 07:50:58 PM »
Probably no surprise to anyone: I don't buy the concept of a "holy grail" microphone. The range and variety of recording situations that we encounter is so great that one type of microphone can't be the ideal choice for all of them. It's not so much a matter of "is the microphone great or not" but "does it have the characteristics that are most needed?"

I follow another recording forum where the people are into "vintage" AKG and Neumann microphones. One time a guy there was rhapsodizing about the original (tube) U 47, and asked the group--somewhat rhetorically, but in all seriousness--whether anyone could possibly not want that microphone if they could get one. I put my hand up, since its characteristics are truly worse than useless for the kinds of live, stereo recording that I mostly do. (The screechiest, fingernails-on-the-chalkboard-est, steel-violin-string-sounding-est orchestral recordings that I know of are the Mercury "Living Presence" LPs/CDs that were made with U 47s as the main microphones.)

It's not the microphone itself; it's the relationship between the microphone and the situation/application, plus the sonic concept of the engineer or producer.

If we always recorded the same kind of material in the same type of surroundings, the "holy grail" idea might have more of a practical basis. Like, if all you do is dialogue and effects for film, you might use just two or three different mikes (a lavalier, a shotgun and an MK 41). But even studio music recording goes by application categories (e.g. solo vocals; guitar or bass cabinets; drum overheads; room mikes)--and live remote recording is generally more "adaptive" than most studio work.

--best regards
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 01:10:35 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline rippleish20

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2018, 07:58:47 PM »

I don't think there is the perfect microphone . There are a lot of variables when it comes to recording sound and different microphones will serve different needs. 
Schoeps CMC6 (MK22's, MK41's) / AKG C480B (ck61, ck63, ck8) / Telefunken M60 (TK61, TK63) - for sale / DPA (4061)
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Offline obaaron

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2018, 10:28:33 AM »
Ok I kind of want Microtech Gefells. They are sort of the Acura of mics not splashy but really neutral and just solid. I’ve never run Neumann’s either but have always been fond of KM 140 tapes.


Cant go wrong with the Gefells love mine have been using them just about every show. The M21 hypers in.particular are unreal!
Mics:  Gefell M20,M21/sms2000/nbob | Schoeps MK4V/cmc6/nbob | AKG c460b/c480b/a60/Naiant actives - ck61,62,63,69 ;ck1,3,8;ck1x,2x,3x | Neumann KM140's | AT853, AT933 | CA-11c,o
Pres: Naiant Littlebox | Tinybox | BMod Edirol UA-5 | Church ST-9200
Recorders:  Zoom F8 | Tascam DR-680 | Tascam DR-60D | Sony PCM-M10
Video: Canon VIXIA HF R42

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Offline kindms

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2018, 10:41:29 AM »
i think for most it means "out of my price range"

 ;D
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 08:00:46 AM by kindms »
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Offline noahbickart

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2018, 11:37:58 AM »
For me? Schoeps active cables and enough capsules to pick the right pair for the music and location.

Dsatz, if you ever want to sell some shoeps I’m sure the community here would be glad to keep them in use.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline Perry

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2018, 03:22:37 PM »
Neumann KM254's


not familiar with those but man I love the JGB shows with the km 54's!  have a really nice Cowboy Junkies as well done with those and the original grace 316 pre

https://archive.org/details/cj1994-04-14.km54.flac16
Sweet recording man, my favorite Junkies era too!
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Offline EmRR

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2018, 03:49:13 PM »
I mainly do studio recording work, but occasional location work and show taping when I'm not too burnt from the 'day job' aspect of my recording pursuits.

It's hard to say I wouldn't have original capsule KM54's or KM53's on the list if I could afford them and their liabilities. 

I need to hook up with johnw and check out his Schoeps, they're not a brand I've ever encountered around here. 

I'm currently enamored with the Sennheiser MKH mics I've added in the last year, and would really like to find a decent deal on an MKH 20 omni to (sorta) complete the quest.  I did add a Neumann KM 131 free field omni recently and am just starting to appreciate it's qualities. 

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2018, 03:44:43 AM »
I am a fisherman. I like to fish. We have baits we use to explore waters we've never explored before dialing in the proper bait.

AKG 498's. Yeah, shotguns. https://archive.org/details/rre2018-06-29.akgck98.flac24/rre2018-06-29s1t02.flac


 

Offline aaronji

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2018, 07:25:37 AM »
I love the high end and midrange of my AT4031s (yeah they're cheap, don't laugh), but I feel like they could use a bit of help in the low end.  Also, they're obviously not available in an "active" style setup.  My ideal mics would probably have the midrange and high end clarity of the AT4031s, a bit more oomph in the bass, and be in a small form factor like the Schoeps Colette caps (but without needing to rely on third party components to achieve that form factor).  Something like the form factor of the Line Audio CM3 would be perfect (no need for special adapter cables, just plug in a couple XLRs and run it).  Even smaller than that would be better, of course.

If something that fits this bill exists, I'd love to hear about it!

Maybe the DPA modulars with the compact bodies? Slightly smaller than the Line Audios, a range of great sounding caps, and you're good to go with regular XLRs...

Offline heathen

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2018, 08:21:57 AM »
I love the high end and midrange of my AT4031s (yeah they're cheap, don't laugh), but I feel like they could use a bit of help in the low end.  Also, they're obviously not available in an "active" style setup.  My ideal mics would probably have the midrange and high end clarity of the AT4031s, a bit more oomph in the bass, and be in a small form factor like the Schoeps Colette caps (but without needing to rely on third party components to achieve that form factor).  Something like the form factor of the Line Audio CM3 would be perfect (no need for special adapter cables, just plug in a couple XLRs and run it).  Even smaller than that would be better, of course.

If something that fits this bill exists, I'd love to hear about it!

Maybe the DPA modulars with the compact bodies? Slightly smaller than the Line Audios, a range of great sounding caps, and you're good to go with regular XLRs...

I'll have to listen to some DPA recordings.  Thanks for the heads up.  You're talking about the MMP-C bodies right?
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | AT AE5100s | AT853s (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3s | DPA 4061s | CA-14 omnis | Studio Projects CS5 Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05 | Tascam DR-2d

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2018, 03:57:58 PM »
Well that would be my sequential s/n Km84s in a Schoeps wooden box.  ;D ;D   Bought these from a guy who needed money for car repairs. 1k for the pair in great condition.
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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2018, 04:14:57 PM »
Well that would be my sequential s/n Km84s in a Schoeps wooden box.  ;D ;D   Bought these from a guy who needed money for car repairs. 1k for the pair in great condition.

$1000?!  Goodness, I just threw up in my mouth a little.  Right place, right time!
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
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Playback: McIntosh MC 2105 > McIntosh MX 130 > Von Schweikert VR-4 JR
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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2018, 07:31:19 PM »
U89's all day
Mics: ADK A51 TL's C12s, at853's (card, hyper, sub, and omni caps), Michael Joly Premium Electronics Modded Oktava mk012s (Card, Hyper and Omni caps), Busman BSC1 Stereo Kit, and Oktava 319.
Pres: V3 opti/M-S Modded, BM2p+ UA5, church audio 9100, 3 wire BB
Recorders:  Busman Mod Tascam DR-680, ACM HD-P2, HD-P2, MT2 x2, D50, M10, JB3 x2, M1, D8

Offline DSatz

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2018, 09:22:36 PM »
rigpimp, please see the attached pages from Gotham Audio's 1976 price list. I hope this information will prove useful when planning your next trip in your friendly, neighborhood time machine.

Also attached is the primary page of the "Studer microphone" price list from the same year. (Schoeps used to have separate US distributors for their 12-Volt vs. 48-Volt microphones. Studer USA was their distributor for 48-Volt Schoeps microphones--labeled as "Studer" and called "SKM" instead of "CMC"--until Posthorn Recordings became the sole distributor for both voltages.)

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2018, 02:20:18 AM »
Well that would be my sequential s/n Km84s in a Schoeps wooden box.  ;D ;D   Bought these from a guy who needed money for car repairs. 1k for the pair in great condition.

$1000?!  Goodness, I just threw up in my mouth a little.  Right place, right time!

I bought my Schoeps MK4/41>CMC 6, shocks and ORTF bar rig for under $2.5K back around 2003/2004 from a Wall St. trader Panic taper that wanted out of the game... I've since added 4v's to the arsenal and traded the 4's for a pair of MK21's and added KC5's.

Also added a pair of AKG 480 bodies and CK98 short shotgun caps, 2 pair of AKG 568's that were sitting on top of an electronics disposal pile after a room demolition from where I worked at the time a few years back. Oh, and a few AKG Blueline bodies and card caps and articulating knuckles from the same dumpster-dive. All approved by management. And I quote: "We no longer need that 'junk'. Take it home if you want."

OK!

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2018, 03:13:33 PM »
I also don't think there is any sort of magic microphone that transforms your recordings.  There is definitely a quality difference between the high end brands and the cheap stuff, but experience and proper technique make so much more of a difference than throwing more money at the situation.

That said, here are some mics I would like to own if I could afford them.  You can tell I'm a fan of omnis.

B&K 4006 TL (discontinued; replaced with DPA 4006)
Josephson c617set
Sonodore LDM-54
Sennheiser MKH30


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Offline EmRR

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2018, 11:19:15 PM »
I also don't think there is any sort of magic microphone that transforms your recordings.  There is definitely a quality difference between the high end brands and the cheap stuff, but experience and proper technique make so much more of a difference than throwing more money at the situation.

You can tell I'm a fan of omnis.

Yeah, I'm with ya.  Just today I did an omni mic comparison with a close acoustic guitar, 4 mics, and they are all useful.  The preference even switches up depending on the playing style.  The angle of the mic makes a big difference.  In some cases any two might sound pretty much the same, in another case wildly different.  It's in figuring what to do with them, where to put them, how to treat them in post, etc. 

Offline billydee

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2018, 12:17:59 PM »
Nakamichi CM-700's with all of the capsules they offered.

Offline Ben Turnbull

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2018, 12:19:26 AM »
Some time ago I heard samples of the Milab DC-196. Like butter.
Who came first, Dave King or Zack Galifianakis?...
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Offline aaronji

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2018, 06:16:41 PM »
I'll have to listen to some DPA recordings.  Thanks for the heads up.  You're talking about the MMP-C bodies right?

Yes, the MMP-C. There is a photo of one in this post with a quarter for size reference. I thought I posted one with an AA battery, too, but I can't find it at the moment. I can take other pictures, if you'd like. These things are small enough that I almost always clip to the XLR instead of the mic body itself. Saves wear and tear on the bodies and it also allows me to set-up almost completely before taking the mics out of their cozy little Pelican home!

DPA also sells full-sized bodies and a couple of flavors of active cables (either P48 or microdot, each available with end or side cable exits). The microdot actives can be used with a d:vice (and, presumably, other low voltage supplies). Of course, there are a bunch of capsules available, including a couple of "budget" options, and a number of cool accessories.

The 4015s were my grail mics (which I would define as "mics I lust after that are either too expensive, too scarce, or both" rather than as "magical and defying the laws of physics") until I found a gently used pair at a decent price. I guess now I would love to get some 4011 caps...

Offline justink

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2018, 11:10:29 PM »
I've got my Holy Grail mics... both pair of DPA's.  my next "fill in the blank" mics for my kit are one of the active variety AKG hyper ck3 or ck93 variety.
Mics:
DPA 4028 (wide cards)
DPA 4023 (cards)
Earthworks TC25 (omnis) 

Pres and a/d's:
Oade ACM Grace Lunatec V3 (FOR SALE - Make Offer)
bm2p+ Edirol UA-5 (FOR SALE - Make Offer)

Recorders:
Oade CM Edirol R-44
Sony PCM‑M10

Offline goodcooker

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2018, 02:26:24 PM »

Hypercardioids - Schoeps MK41
Cardioids - DPA 4011TL and/or Schoeps M221tube body/M934b capsule
Wide Cardioid - Neumann ak43/km100/LC3 although I do love my MBHO subcards for a lot less money...
Omni - DPA 4006

A pair of AKG C61 would be nice too...

Schoeps MK41 > nBob > PFA || MBHO KA300 > PFA
Aerco MP2 || Grace Lunatec V2 || RAD MS2 || nBox Platinum
Marantz PMD706 || PMD620

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2018, 12:12:42 PM »
What are your "holy grail" mics?

The one I've searched for for years yet remains unobtainable.  Technically not outside the realm of possibility, yet not offered by any manufacturer that I'm aware of- A lightweight, miniature, low-voltage-powered, two-wire capable bi-directional (fig-8).

The transformer balanced version of the Niaint X-8S is closest I've found, but is heavy and not two-wire capable.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline muj

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2018, 03:42:36 AM »



starting to love this one...

Offline jcable77

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2018, 04:00:54 AM »
I dont know about “holy grail” but ive wanted a pair of Earthworks SR77’s for maybe 20 years now. Some day...
ADK a51tl’s, Telefunken m60’s tk60’s,61’s,62’s, Teac me-120’s(c,o,sh)
AKG 480’s ck61’s, a60’s>ck22’s>akg active naiant pfa’s>
V-3,Mini-Me’s
Mixpre 6, pmd661

Offline voltronic

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2018, 06:00:18 AM »
What are your "holy grail" mics?

The one I've searched for for years yet remains unobtainable.  Technically not outside the realm of possibility, yet not offered by any manufacturer that I'm aware of- A lightweight, miniature, low-voltage-powered, two-wire capable bi-directional (fig-8).

The transformer balanced version of the Niaint X-8S is closest I've found, but is heavy and not two-wire capable.

Not 2-wire and not miniature, but this as small a fig-8 I know of.  About the same size as a Schoeps CCM8, but 1/3 the price.

http://ambient.de/en/product/emesser/
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2018, 08:41:02 AM »
^ Thanks.  Aware of that one but never tried it.  Seems about as close as it gets, afterwhich the search goes cold.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline dactylus

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2018, 09:02:12 AM »

starting to love this one...

^^^^
What kind of mic is that muj?
hot licks > microphones > recorder



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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2018, 09:02:51 AM »
Used to be an AKG C422 would have been my holy grail. Nowadays I find myself coveting the MBHO line if I weren't such an AKG hound.    OTH, those Earthworks sure are purty.     
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2018, 01:17:11 PM »

starting to love this one...

^^^^
What kind of mic is that muj?

A search turned up B9 Audio- https://b9audio.com/. Looks to be a Chinese microphone manufacturer emulating Schoeps. 

Their microphones look attractive, the published response graphs look good and the samples on the site sound nice, but not much info there otherwise.  Here's a cut-sheet on the Blumlien stereo microphone muj appears to be using- https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/48a8cb31-a4e2-44b6-a8d3-b3e77664ad9f/downloads/1ccqt2plq_835666.pdf

In addition to that and various cardioids, omnis, a supercard and and shotgun, there is a native B-format ambisonic microphone and an interesting emulation of the Schoeps KFM360 called the VR Ball- https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/48a8cb31-a4e2-44b6-a8d3-b3e77664ad9f/downloads/1ci1clsft_157637.pdf.

It is similar to KFM360 but includes the addition of a 2nd pair of fig-8's, vertically-oriented in addition to the horizontally-oriented 8's coincidently arranged with the flush-mounted omnis on either side of the sphere, as well as a front-center microphone position which apparently may be swapped between various polar patterns.  Making a total channel count of 7 recorded channels rather than 4 if all microphones are in use.  This one is interesting since the KFM360 has long represented a holy grail microphone for me (which is actually attainable, if not by myself), which has influenced my thinking about live music recording and the development of my oddball mic techniques. I dreamed up pretty much this same combination a few times over the years while thinking about that stuff and it's interesting to see such a flight of fancy appear as an actual product!

Hoping muj will chime in with more info and details on the qualities of the Blumlien stereo mic..
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline edtyre

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2018, 01:30:09 PM »
Having a schoeps capsule (including the mighty mk6's) for every recording
situation is my holy grail.
music>mics>pre>recorder

Offline heathen

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #47 on: August 28, 2018, 01:43:04 PM »
A search turned up B9 Audio- https://b9audio.com/.

Not to derail things too much, but (despite their web site leaving a lot to be desired) these are intriguing. 
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | AT AE5100s | AT853s (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3s | DPA 4061s | CA-14 omnis | Studio Projects CS5 Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05 | Tascam DR-2d

Offline Walstib62

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2018, 06:35:33 PM »

Offline muj

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #49 on: August 29, 2018, 04:30:10 AM »

starting to love this one...

^^^^
What kind of mic is that muj?

A search turned up B9 Audio- https://b9audio.com/. Looks to be a Chinese microphone manufacturer emulating Schoeps. 

Their microphones look attractive, the published response graphs look good and the samples on the site sound nice, but not much info there otherwise.  Here's a cut-sheet on the Blumlien stereo microphone muj appears to be using- https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/48a8cb31-a4e2-44b6-a8d3-b3e77664ad9f/downloads/1ccqt2plq_835666.pdf

In addition to that and various cardioids, omnis, a supercard and and shotgun, there is a native B-format ambisonic microphone and an interesting emulation of the Schoeps KFM360 called the VR Ball- https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/48a8cb31-a4e2-44b6-a8d3-b3e77664ad9f/downloads/1ci1clsft_157637.pdf.

It is similar to KFM360 but includes the addition of a 2nd pair of fig-8's, vertically-oriented in addition to the horizontally-oriented 8's coincidently arranged with the flush-mounted omnis on either side of the sphere, as well as a front-center microphone position which apparently may be swapped between various polar patterns.  Making a total channel count of 7 recorded channels rather than 4 if all microphones are in use.  This one is interesting since the KFM360 has long represented a holy grail microphone for me (which is actually attainable, if not by myself), which has influenced my thinking about live music recording and the development of my oddball mic techniques. I dreamed up pretty much this same combination a few times over the years while thinking about that stuff and it's interesting to see such a flight of fancy appear as an actual product!

Hoping muj will chime in with more info and details on the qualities of the Blumlien stereo mic..



Taiwanese Company..big difference ( Taiwan has a western approach to QC)

The mic is only 830 usd..but they sound scaringly like schoeps...

I use mine With a Pearl ELM-C as a "mid" mic… i.e adjust the Level mid channel post Production, to correct phase or add more body to sound..etc

Offline voltronic

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #50 on: August 31, 2018, 06:40:53 AM »

starting to love this one...

^^^^
What kind of mic is that muj?

A search turned up B9 Audio- https://b9audio.com/. Looks to be a Chinese microphone manufacturer emulating Schoeps. 

Their microphones look attractive, the published response graphs look good and the samples on the site sound nice, but not much info there otherwise.  Here's a cut-sheet on the Blumlien stereo microphone muj appears to be using- https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/48a8cb31-a4e2-44b6-a8d3-b3e77664ad9f/downloads/1ccqt2plq_835666.pdf

In addition to that and various cardioids, omnis, a supercard and and shotgun, there is a native B-format ambisonic microphone and an interesting emulation of the Schoeps KFM360 called the VR Ball- https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/48a8cb31-a4e2-44b6-a8d3-b3e77664ad9f/downloads/1ci1clsft_157637.pdf.

It is similar to KFM360 but includes the addition of a 2nd pair of fig-8's, vertically-oriented in addition to the horizontally-oriented 8's coincidently arranged with the flush-mounted omnis on either side of the sphere, as well as a front-center microphone position which apparently may be swapped between various polar patterns.  Making a total channel count of 7 recorded channels rather than 4 if all microphones are in use.  This one is interesting since the KFM360 has long represented a holy grail microphone for me (which is actually attainable, if not by myself), which has influenced my thinking about live music recording and the development of my oddball mic techniques. I dreamed up pretty much this same combination a few times over the years while thinking about that stuff and it's interesting to see such a flight of fancy appear as an actual product!

Hoping muj will chime in with more info and details on the qualities of the Blumlien stereo mic..

There's a thread on GS about these mics with the manufacturer commenting.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-in-acoustic-music-and-location-recording/1143093-1-2-quot-condenser-blumlein-stereo-comments.html
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Offline kindms

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2018, 07:18:30 PM »
I have always wanted an AKG C422 and the like

also that schoeps M/S deathstar setup

Fairy tales can come true, they can happy to you.....



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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #52 on: September 14, 2018, 09:08:54 AM »
Nice!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2018, 10:26:25 AM »
I wan mics that shoot poison darts at talkers within a 5 ft. Radius.
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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2018, 10:48:50 AM »
Only five feet?
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #55 on: September 16, 2018, 11:05:57 PM »
These ones, of course!
AKG c414xls.
Beyerdynamic MC930, Line Audio CM3 and OM1.
Church CA11+14, Audiotechnica AT853.
Shure FP24, Audioroot Femto, Church CA9100, CA9200.
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Offline adrianf74

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #56 on: September 17, 2018, 04:05:57 PM »
These ones, of course!

 :clapping:   I was gonna say.... LOL

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Re: What are your "holy grail" mics?
« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2018, 07:42:38 PM »
These ones, of course!

Rather long story but I'll keep it brief. I did sound for Cleese who was hired to do a roast of the senior partners at a High-end Philly law firm. The exec admin was a high-strung little shrew that abused both me and the kitchen staff.

Cleese saw what was up and stepped in and gave her the "business". Then invited me and few other plebes to have dinner with him and his wife and stuck her with the bill.

2 things struck me about him: He's REALLY fucking tall. And he's a true English gentleman...

 

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