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Author Topic: Does a 4.7k mod cable or adaptator exists ?  (Read 570 times)

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Offline fandelive

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Does a 4.7k mod cable or adaptator exists ?
« on: August 15, 2018, 09:45:22 AM »
I've heard about attenuator cables. Could those be considered as 4.7k mod cables ?

I know 4.7k mod can be built inside a preamp for 3-wire mics, or you have to add a condenser somewhere around the plug for a 2-wire mic (permanent mod).

But would it be possible to build the 4.7k mod inside a small male>female 3.5 jack adapter? I don't need any more cable length in my st€@1th rig...

I'm thinking about a 4.7k mod built inside a right angled plug or something. It has never been done before so I don't know if it's possible.


« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 09:57:03 AM by fandelive »
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4, 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline fandelive

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Re: Does a 4.7k mod cable or adaptator exists ?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2018, 01:14:10 PM »
As I'm french, I'm not sure I made myself perfectly clear.
So I drew a little something. What I want to know is if it's possible to build a 4.7k mod adapter for 2-wire 3-wire high sens mics (like the ones from soundpros) to be able to handle high SPL like the red part in my drawing:
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 02:07:10 AM by fandelive »
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4, 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline kuba e

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Re: Does a 4.7k mod cable or adaptator exists ?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2018, 02:09:58 PM »
What I want to know is if it's possible to build a 4.7k mod adapter for 2-wire high sens mics (like the ones from soundpros) to be able to handle high SPL like the red part in my drawing:

Unfortunately no. Mod 4.7k is only for some three wires mics. You can try the Linkwitz mod for two wire configuration. It's no guarantee, I do not know if it works for all electret mics.
http://www.mp3forkidz.com/mic/mod.html

Offline fandelive

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Re: Does a 4.7k mod cable or adaptator exists ?
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2018, 02:23:38 PM »
Thanks !
Aren't AT 853 (used by soundpros to build their SP-CMC-4) 3 wire mics ?
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4, 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline kuba e

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Re: Does a 4.7k mod cable or adaptator exists ?
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2018, 03:21:35 PM »
I think that AT853 are three wire mics.

Offline fandelive

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Re: Does a 4.7k mod cable or adaptator exists ?
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2018, 02:04:28 AM »
I think that AT853 are three wire mics.

I'm sure they can have the 4.7k mod as I already saw them modded several time in the yard sale or on taper's recordings info file.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 02:12:24 AM by fandelive »
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4, 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline kuba e

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Re: Does a 4.7k mod cable or adaptator exists ?
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2018, 05:12:15 AM »
Ok, so have you AT853 terminated to 3.5 stereo jack? Maybe you already have the mod installed. Disassemble 3.5 jack and look inside if there is a resistor and capacitor. If not, you can install the mod there.

3 wires are reduced to 2 wires in the 3.5 stereo jack (the stereo jack is common to both microphones). And it matters how you do this reduction. You can connect it classically, the third wire will not be connected, you'll let it free. Alternatively, you can connect it in the 4.7 mod, connect the third wire through the resistor and the capacitor to the second wire.

You can make interchangeable cables for the 4.7k mod. Reterminate the mics to the mini xlr. And make two cables, each will have the different connection in the single stereo jack.

mic1 mini xlr -> cable mini xlr \
                                                   single stereo jack -> battery box or preamp
mic2 mini xlr -> cable mini xlr /

Offline fandelive

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Re: Does a 4.7k mod cable or adaptator exists ?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2018, 06:57:15 AM »
Ok, so have you AT853 terminated to 3.5 stereo jack? Maybe you already have the mod installed. Disassemble 3.5 jack and look inside if there is a resistor and capacitor. If not, you can install the mod there.

3 wires are reduced to 2 wires in the 3.5 stereo jack (the stereo jack is common to both microphones). And it matters how you do this reduction. You can connect it classically, the third wire will not be connected, you'll let it free. Alternatively, you can connect it in the 4.7 mod, connect the third wire through the resistor and the capacitor to the second wire.

You can make interchangeable cables for the 4.7k mod. Reterminate the mics to the mini xlr. And make two cables, each will have the different connection in the single stereo jack.

mic1 mini xlr -> cable mini xlr \
                                                   single stereo jack -> battery box or preamp
mic2 mini xlr -> cable mini xlr /

This is perfectly clear, thank you!

My AT853 pair is sold as SP-CMC-4 by Sound Professionals. It's the standard high sensivity version terminated to 3.5 stereo jack. So it doesn't have the mod.
I now understand I won't be able to make them work with a separated 4.7k cable unless I reterminate the mics to the mini XLRs.

I see the versatility of having them reterminated to mini XLRs and getting a set of two Y cables (one with the 4.7k mod, the second one without the mod).

So that leads me to a new question: is there a solution to make my high sensivity AT853's handle loud SPLs (no brickwalling issues) while keeping the original 3.5 stereo jack?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 07:09:37 AM by fandelive »
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4, 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline kuba e

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Re: Does a 4.7k mod cable or adaptator exists ?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2018, 09:39:45 AM »
Disassemble 3.5 jack and look inside if there is a resistor and capacitor. If not, you can install the mod there.

I am sorry, there is no capacitor in the mod. The mod is done only with two resistors. The schematic is here.
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=93011.msg1239121#msg1239121

So that leads me to a new question: is there a solution to make my high sensivity AT853's handle loud SPLs (no brickwalling issues) while keeping the original 3.5 stereo jack?

Yes, install the mod permanently inside original 3.5 stereo jack. I hope there is space for two small resistors. If there is a lack of space, ask the guys who are doing this mod. There must be easy machanical solution, e.g. put the resistors in the cable outside the jack and cover it with shrinking pad.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 09:51:24 AM by kuba e »

Offline fandelive

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Re: Does a 4.7k mod cable or adaptator exists ?
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2018, 12:23:11 PM »
Yes, install the mod permanently inside original 3.5 stereo jack.

I already have a pair of cardioids with the 4.7k mod installed permanently. I'd actually like to keep my AT853's as high sensivity mics for quiet concert taping purpose.
I was wondering if there would be a tweak for more versatility, but with leaving the mics untouched and using something external (cable or adapter).

I was thinking about an attenuator cable, but clipping and brickwalling are two different kind of trouble...
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4, 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline kuba e

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Re: Does a 4.7k mod cable or adaptator exists ?
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2018, 06:50:27 PM »
Fandelive, I understand you. The last thing. You can install a small switch on the cable for 4.7k mod. I can imagine the switch of size of 3.5 jack, and it can be placed anywhere on the cable.

I was thinking about an attenuator cable, but clipping and brickwalling are two different kind of trouble...

Yes, you are right. Clipping can occur inside microphone's electronic - FET. This is the case for mod 4.7.  This mod was originally developed  by Chris Church for AT 853. I do not know if anyone has shown by measuring the success of this mod to other electret microphones. But it probably works for others. It would be great if someone would confirm for which microphones is 4.7k mod successful.

Clipping can occur in preamp/ recorder too, because mic's hot input signal is not accepted, then you have to use attenuator cable.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 07:01:14 PM by kuba e »

 

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