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Author Topic: Recording  (Read 2338 times)

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Offline furburger

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Re: Recording
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2018, 06:51:03 AM »
If the low cut is something that's built into the mics then that's a different story. As I said, if the low end is distorting at the microphone that's an entirely different situation.

Leonard's mics are 2-piece...there's the mics, which then connect (via a 1/8 jack) to the "battery box"....

Leonard's lo-cut is a version of his battery box, with a 3 way lo-cut switch built into it.

the real funny is that he admitted to me he built my mics with bunk batch of wire...yet even though I sold a dozen pairs of them for him in the 90's, he'd not replace my pair with bunk wire "at cost", and instead told me tough titties.

sooooooooo, when they shorted a THIRD time, a half-roll of black electrical tape later, ,and I isolated the short by de-facto hard-wiring the mics to the box (or, the tape has been holding the wires in place in a 'black ball of tape' since the late 90's.)


so, no, the lo-cut is not built in, it's optional, however, in my situation, it is "built in", as should I ever take that tape ball apart, the mics are toast.


hands-down it's easily the best option I ever selected as a taper....not even a close second in terms of "taper aid".

the easiest way I can explain it is this:

prior to using the low-cut, pretty much everything to the left of 250hz would bounce up to, if not thru +12dB, that's 40hz, 63hz, 98hz, 160hz and 250hz....way too bassy, and while some of that bass could be trimmed, it just dominated the tapes.

however, ,when using the lo-cut, those levels would bounce to around 0dB, which, in conjunction with the attentuator of the D6 ***allowed me to set the recording levels higher, which made the mids and highs shine thru the lows'.***

or, instead of the peak meter being dictated/dominated by 'rumble rumble rumble', those nasty bass levels would be reduced to a point where I could get a much brighter capture, sans distortion.

when shifting to the R-09 in '08, and the DR-2D in '11, the R-09 low-cut was garbage (as the mics in the R-09 were garbage), but the DR-2D one, I will occasionally use the built-in one ***with the internals only*** (depending on what is being recorded), but not with the Sonics or the Church mics. (nee: externals)

it was a bit of a different learning curve in setting the levels, but once dialed in, it's been pretty smooth sailing.

or, as gutbucket said:


A good reason to engage a HPF filter is to enable sufficient mid and high frequency signal level to the recording medium.  This is (was) more important to do this when recording to analog tape which has far less dynamic range than digital recording, as well as a less-linear response across other frequencies as the tape becomes oversaturated prior to clipping. If the recording medium could capture the full range of all frequencies at any level, we would not need recording gain controls nor high-pass filters to make recordings which aimed to accurately reflect the frequency balance and and loudness of the live event.*  This may bring to mind similar discussions about recording level and recording 16 or 24 bits.  As it is, digital recording currently allows us to get away with not needing to engage a high pass filters most of the time in order to get good usable full-spectrum signal recorded, yet we still for the most part tweak the recording gain depending on what we are recording.



I'm far from an expert, but at the same time, I'm not a dummy when it comes to figuring out how to make a recording sound good with my "lo-fi equipment".  the lo-cut is in-effect built-into the Sonics via black electrical tape, and the mics will officially have been in service for 25 years at the end of this year.

the black rubber coating has completely come off of the earbuds (and they too are now covered with black electrical tape).

they look like garbage.

but they still get the job done....or, I've never had a desire to 'upgrade' them, as they still make pretty good tapes.





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people who are fans of the music, they LOVE what I document and capture...people who are fans of themselves....not so much.

Offline Jerseyguy57

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Re: Recording
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2018, 09:29:54 AM »
Wow, that's a lot of info to take in. Thank you. I'll be using CA -11'S with a Ugly battery box into a Tascam DR-05. I know that the DR has limiters and settings to prevent saturation. If anyone uses this model and has some ideas for the settings it would be much appreciated.

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Recording
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2018, 02:12:23 PM »
Wow, that's a lot of info to take in. Thank you. I'll be using CA -11'S with a Ugly battery box into a Tascam DR-05. I know that the DR has limiters and settings to prevent saturation. If anyone uses this model and has some ideas for the settings it would be much appreciated.

Basically the moral of the story is: if you set your levels correctly you should never hit the limiter
Mics: Berliner CM-33, CA-14 card, CA-11 card & omni, AT-853, Sony ECM-907
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-05, Sony Hi-MD

Offline Jerseyguy57

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Re: Recording
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2018, 02:55:36 PM »
I'm very new to this and this will be my first show. Just looking for someone who has the Tascam DR-05 and could guide me on some setting ideas.

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Recording
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2018, 01:31:20 AM »
I used one for years. I would record at 24/48 (the noise floor is kinda hot on that deck) and keep the gain on the low side. Engage the limiter jus to in case, but if you set your levels correctly you should never get anywhere near triggering it. I used to leave mine sub 10 unless I knew it would be a particularly quiet show
Mics: Berliner CM-33, CA-14 card, CA-11 card & omni, AT-853, Sony ECM-907
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-05, Sony Hi-MD

Offline furburger

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Re: Recording
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2018, 03:49:24 PM »
Wow, that's a lot of info to take in. Thank you. I'll be using CA -11'S with a Ugly battery box into a Tascam DR-05. I know that the DR has limiters and settings to prevent saturation. If anyone uses this model and has some ideas for the settings it would be much appreciated.


depends on the type of music being recorded, and the venue/(your anticipated) position are key too.
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Offline Jerseyguy57

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Re: Recording
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2018, 08:50:22 PM »
The first show is Acoustic Alchemy a smooth jazz group. The theater is a small one. I'll be in between the 2nd and 5th row center. The 2nd show is a rock and blues Christmas show and I'll be between the 4th to 7th row center. Same theater.

Offline jim997

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Re: Recording
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2018, 10:15:19 PM »
Hi evryone im going to buy a recorder to start recording some rock shows (example gn'r, roger waters etc) and its between the ZoomH1n or the Tascam DR-05 i know maybe its not the best recorders i never used it before something like this but im going to try to have at least a decent audio and anyone knows what kind of mic or stuff i need beside the recorder?, and what kind of things in need to adjust in the recording (for example in bootlegs usually says stuff like: 96kHZ/24 bit-> dithered to 44kHz/16 thinks like that that i don't understand tbh lol) if you can post low budget accesories pls since the first  concert that i want to record its in 2 weeks and the idea of starting recording shows came to me a week ago i don't have so much money right now to spend lol (btw the concert will be outdoors) if anyone knows pls let me know

i would like to have a sound like this for example there's a show from roger waters that in the description says that it was recorded with a zoom h1 recorder:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a48U-reMnEU  what kind of stuff i need to get a sound like this?  btw sorry for my bad english and if this isn't the right place to post this please let me know im new

Offline ycoop

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Re: Recording
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2018, 01:38:20 PM »
Hi evryone im going to buy a recorder to start recording some rock shows (example gn'r, roger waters etc) and its between the ZoomH1n or the Tascam DR-05 i know maybe its not the best recorders i never used it before something like this but im going to try to have at least a decent audio and anyone knows what kind of mic or stuff i need beside the recorder?, and what kind of things in need to adjust in the recording (for example in bootlegs usually says stuff like: 96kHZ/24 bit-> dithered to 44kHz/16 thinks like that that i don't understand tbh lol) if you can post low budget accesories pls since the first  concert that i want to record its in 2 weeks and the idea of starting recording shows came to me a week ago i don't have so much money right now to spend lol (btw the concert will be outdoors) if anyone knows pls let me know

i would like to have a sound like this for example there's a show from roger waters that in the description says that it was recorded with a zoom h1 recorder:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a48U-reMnEU  what kind of stuff i need to get a sound like this?  btw sorry for my bad english and if this isn't the right place to post this please let me know im new

Starting with internal microphones will likely leave you wanting more. That said, you should check out the yard sale here. For example, here's someone selling a Zoom H2n for $50 http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=188103.0. While this recorder might not fit perfectly in a shirt front pocket, it has more features than the H1n or DR-05. If you want to stick to new and are choosing between the H1n and the DR-05, I suggest going with the DR-05, if only due to the form factor.

As for the technical business...I wouldn't worry about that too much for now. If you are a voracious learner, than feel free to post questions you have, people will be happy to answer. Just don't expect to get clear answers to questions you may have about sneaking gear into venues, people tend to keep their methods secret.

If storage space isn't an issue, I suggest recording at 24bit/48Hz and setting your input levels to have your peaks be around -12 dB at first, and then as you get comfortable trying to peak around -6 dB. The -12 or -6 dB numbers refer to the sound level below the point where the recorder's input becomes overloaded, so anything above 0 dB means that you'll get brickwalling and distortion. Remember that dB are logarithmic so 10 dB is 10x higher than 0 dB in terms of sound pressure levels. That said, we don't hear things that way. A 6 dB increase sounds approximately twice as loud to our ears/brains.
Mics: Avantone CK-1s, CA-14 omnis
Pres: CA9100
Recorders: DR-60d mkII, DR-22wl, DR-07

Offline aaronji

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Re: Recording
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2018, 05:13:05 PM »
Remember that dB are logarithmic so 10 dB is 10x higher than 0 dB in terms of sound pressure levels. That said, we don't hear things that way. A 6 dB increase sounds approximately twice as loud to our ears/brains.

For a field quantity, like sound pressure levels, dB = 20*log10(X1/X0). So a doubling of SPL would be +6 dB (20*log10(2)). An SPL 10 times higher than the reference would be +20 dB. Perceptually, people hear a 10 dB increase as a doubling.

Also, "brickwalling" is a distorted signal that doesn't go over 0 dB on the meters (overloads the input but then attenuated so it doesn't go over 0 dBFS)...

Offline jbosco

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Re: Recording
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2018, 08:01:58 AM »
Hi evryone im going to buy a recorder to start recording some rock shows (example gn'r, roger waters etc) and its between the ZoomH1n or the Tascam DR-05 i know maybe its not the best recorders i never used it before something like this but im going to try to have at least a decent audio and anyone knows what kind of mic or stuff i need beside the recorder?, and what kind of things in need to adjust in the recording (for example in bootlegs usually says stuff like: 96kHZ/24 bit-> dithered to 44kHz/16 thinks like that that i don't understand tbh lol) if you can post low budget accesories pls since the first  concert that i want to record its in 2 weeks and the idea of starting recording shows came to me a week ago i don't have so much money right now to spend lol (btw the concert will be outdoors) if anyone knows pls let me know

i would like to have a sound like this for example there's a show from roger waters that in the description says that it was recorded with a zoom h1 recorder:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a48U-reMnEU  what kind of stuff i need to get a sound like this?  btw sorry for my bad english and if this isn't the right place to post this please let me know im new

Starting with internal microphones will likely leave you wanting more. That said, you should check out the yard sale here. For example, here's someone selling a Zoom H2n for $50 http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=188103.0. While this recorder might not fit perfectly in a shirt front pocket, it has more features than the H1n or DR-05. If you want to stick to new and are choosing between the H1n and the DR-05, I suggest going with the DR-05, if only due to the form factor.


I believe that's my old Zoom, I only used it 3 or 4 times and he says he's only used it about 5 times, $50 seems like a steal for a recorder with almost no hours on it.
---
Neumann KM 184 -> Tascam DR 70D
DPA 4061 -> Sony M10

 

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