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Author Topic: B9Audio microphone discussion  (Read 1332 times)

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Offline heathen

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B9Audio microphone discussion
« on: August 28, 2018, 06:58:07 PM »
These mics were mentioned in the another thread, and I couldn't find any previous discussion of them so I figured why not start a dedicated thread.

Web site: https://b9audio.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/B9audio/ (there is some interesting info, including several samples, posted here)

The CM180 in particular looks interesting.  It appears to use a single-diaphragm figure 8 capsule on a "CMP1" preamp body.  At only 82.5 mm long, it's relatively compact.  There are some other interesting things, but some of it involves digging through their Facebook posts.  Hopefully the web site gets organized better. 
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Offline Walstib62

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2018, 07:10:30 PM »
b9 audio sample:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMgKfS-qnW6_467bGzRpCjQ

I'm interested to learn more about these.

Offline muj

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2018, 04:26:11 AM »


i use the csm88 as blumlein par and use a Pearl ELM-C as "mid" mic, results are outstanding. blumlein is the truth

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2018, 09:18:25 AM »
Quoted from the thread heathen mentions in his OP here-


starting to love this one...
^^^^
What kind of mic is that muj?
A search turned up B9 Audio- https://b9audio.com/. Looks to be a Chinese microphone manufacturer emulating Schoeps. 

Their microphones look attractive, the published response graphs look good and the samples on the site sound nice, but not much info there otherwise.  Here's a cut-sheet on the Blumlien stereo microphone muj appears to be using- https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/48a8cb31-a4e2-44b6-a8d3-b3e77664ad9f/downloads/1ccqt2plq_835666.pdf

In addition to that and various cardioids, omnis, a supercard and and shotgun, there is a native B-format ambisonic microphone and an interesting emulation of the Schoeps KFM360 called the VR Ball- https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/48a8cb31-a4e2-44b6-a8d3-b3e77664ad9f/downloads/1ci1clsft_157637.pdf.

It is similar to KFM360 but includes the addition of a 2nd pair of fig-8's, vertically-oriented in addition to the horizontally-oriented 8's coincidently arranged with the flush-mounted omnis on either side of the sphere, as well as a front-center microphone position which apparently may be swapped between various polar patterns.  Making a total channel count of 7 recorded channels rather than 4 if all microphones are in use.  This one is interesting since the KFM360 has long represented a holy grail microphone for me (which is actually attainable, if not by myself), which has influenced my thinking about live music recording and the development of my oddball mic techniques. I dreamed up pretty much this same combination a few times over the years while thinking about that stuff and it's interesting to see such a flight of fancy appear as an actual product!

Hoping muj will chime in with more info and details on the qualities of the Blumlien stereo mic..
Taiwanese Company..big difference ( Taiwan has a western approach to QC)

The mic is only 830 usd..but they sound scaringly like schoeps...

I use mine With a Pearl ELM-C as a "mid" mic… i.e adjust the Level mid channel post Production, to correct phase or add more body to sound..etc

That CM180 fig-8 is intriguing to me. 
And curious about the supercards and subcards.
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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2018, 09:25:10 AM »


i use the csm88 as blumlein par and use a Pearl ELM-C as "mid" mic, results are outstanding. blumlein is the truth
I was gonna chime in that the B9Audio mic line is interesting, especially the fig 8 caps and the VR ball variation.
BUT the bolded segment above caught my attention as I too feel blumlein is the truth   ;D
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2018, 10:41:16 AM »
Oftimes we can't handle the truth!

A more hyper-realist take seems the fictionalized-truth we tend to desire from further back in the room, yet for what muj is using it for, truth = beauty.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 11:20:33 AM by Gutbucket »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2018, 10:59:36 AM »
Jumping right into analysis of the VR ball array.  With heathen's permission, I'm copying here a bit of PM discussion we've been having about the VR ball microphone this morning-

I didn't want to further derail the "holy grail mics" thread with this, but I figured you might be interested.  They've shared a VR ball recording that you can download the raw output and mess with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3ExjEeqM74&feature=youtu.be (look in the description for the link).

Cool, thanks.

Quote
Here's more details from their Facebook page:

Use 180628_VR_Ball_12_Binaural.wav as the fundamental for all channel and...
^ That's the two flush-mounted omnis (corresponding to the YouTube video audio)
Quote
Front stereo: Mix with [in phase] 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_H.wav
Back stereo: Mix with [invert phase] 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_H.wav
^this is what the KFM360 does, by Mid/Side matrixing each omni with a coincident forward facing 8
Quote
Top stereo: Mix with [in phase] 180628_VR_Ball_56_Figure8_V.wav
Front, Up stereo: Mix with [in phase] 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_H.wav and [in phase] 180628_VR_Ball_56_Figure8_V.wav
Rear, Up stereo: Mix with [invert phase] 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_H.wav and [in phase] 180628_VR_Ball_56_Figure8_V.wav
^This is a direct substitution of the upward facing 8's for the forward facing ones, producing up/down facing patterns rather than front/back facing patterns
Quote
Front, Low stereo: Mix with [in phase] 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_H.wav and [invert phase] 180628_VR_Ball_56_Figure8_V.wav
Rear, Low stereo: Mix with [invert phase] 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_H.wav and [invert phase] 180628_VR_Ball_56_Figure8_V.wav
^This sums the forward and upward facing 8's prior to Mid/Side matrixing with the omnis, producing a fig-8 pointing +45 degrees above (or -45 degrees below) the horizontal plane, and thus patterns facing either way along that diagonal axis when matrixed with the omnis.

musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2018, 11:14:10 AM »
and this..  an ambisonic decode option for the VR ball also described on the facebook page-

Quote
Decode to WXYZ, VR format B:
W = Sum 180628_VR_Ball_12_Binaural.wav
X = Sum 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_H.wav
Y = S channel of 180628_VR_Ball_12_Binaural.wav (Left to Right difference)
Z = Sum 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_V.wav

^
That ambisonic transcode option is interesting, I wonder how well it works.  Ambisonic theoreticians will hate this as all the derived ambisonic B-format component channels are sums of two channels spaced by the diameter of the sphere, making it mathematically a total mess.  It also uses the difference signal of the two omnis to produce the Y signal bi-directional component, which will behave differently from the X and Z bi-directional components produced by the (summed) fig-8 mics.  Acoustically all this will produce acoustic spatial aliasing which varies with frequency, but perhaps in practice it works out okay and sounds alright. 

What I think would be far more interesting than trying to use it as a substitute single-point ambisonic mic would be using it as two separate sphere-baffled single-plane ambisonic microphones.  The analogy being this- the KFM360 expands on head-sphere-baffled omnis by turning the two flush-mounted omnis into two Mid/Side arrangements.  The VR ball expands that further by turning those Mid/Side arrangements into essentially two DMS double-mid/side arrangements (or more accurately- mid/double-side arrangements) which can be manipulated as two single-plane ambisonic microphones, sphere-baffled from each other.  That eliminates the spatial aliasing problems as all the Mid/Side-ambisonic summing is of close-to coincident-capsules on the same side of the sphere. 

One could then vary polar-pattern and angle of virtual microphones on either side of the sphere in the X and Z dimensions.  The Y dimension pattern would not be controllable directly but is influenced by the sphere-mounting and sideways orientation of the omnis.  Actually one could try using the difference-signal of the baffled omnis to gain some control over Y (as they describe deriving Y for B-format), without compromising X and Z in order to get something closer to two fully periphonic ambisonic microphone positions, separated by the sphere baffle in the middle.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 11:21:33 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2018, 11:18:43 AM »
Feel free to ignore the obtuse geek-out I just posted above concerning the VR ball microphone array if it reads like Greek to you.  I hope that doesn't derail the thread and discussion of B9 microphones which other tapers might actually end up trying! 
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 11:23:39 AM by Gutbucket »
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Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline muj

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2018, 12:10:24 PM »
The VR ball is very interesting, I have the BS-3d from The Audio  (  couldn't find a KMF360 used on the market), and it makes the binaural sphere concept more flexible, sound gets more "real" by adding the "reverb" from the fig 8s

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2018, 03:51:03 PM »
^ Earlier, I was listening to the individual VR ball mic pair files linked in the Youtube description with just that in mind.  This is fun and interesting and I recommend anyone reading who is interested to give it a listen. You don't need to do any mixing, just download and listen comparatively to the 3 stereo WAV files from that session, switching back and forth between them.  What you will be listening to is a comparison between a pair of flush-mounted sphere-baffled omnis, a pair of sphere-baffled forward facing figure-8s, and a pair of sphere-baffled upward facing figure-8s.

To do so go to the YouTube page- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3ExjEeqM74&feature=youtu.be and look in the description for the link to the WAV file set from the a VR Ball recoded when the video was made.  Download the three WAV files (ignore the mp3 which contains a piano duet recording from a different session).  Load the three files into your player and put on your headphones.

180628_VR_Ball_12_Binaural.wav is the flush mounted omnis by themselves, which is the same as the audio heard on the video.  Listen to that one first.  In particular, listen to the sound of the snare drum positioned directly in front of the recording position.  Ignore the other instrumentation for the time being.

Next listen to 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_H.wav.  This is the pair of sphere-baffled forward facing figure-8s.  Notice the difference in the snare sound.  There are less early reflections from the side walls and less overall reverb heard on the snare. The figure 8s are directly facing the position of the drummer making the snare sounds more direct. The inverse polarity back lobs of the fig-8's pick up reflections from the back of the room, but far less from the side walls, ceiling and floor where the bi-directional pattern becomes less sensitive. 

Then listen to 180628_VR_Ball_56_Figure8_V.wav. This is the pair of sphere-baffled upward-facing figure-8s.  Notice the difference in the snare sound, now far more distant and diffuse sounding because the least-sensitive portion of the fig-8 pattern is facing the snare drum position (and also facing the sidewalls and the back of the room, reducing sensitivity to the early reflections off them).  The most-sensitive portions of the pattern are facing towards the ceiling and floor, such that what is heard primarily are the reflections off the floor and ceiling along with the essentially the same amount of diffuse room verb as was heard from the forward facing 8's. 

It can be very informative going back a forth a few times between these WAVs comparing how this change of directional pattern effects the sound of the snare drum with all other variables remaining constant.  If we were to matrix the omni and figure-8 file as is done with the KFM360, we'd further increase the ability to isolate or reject the direct sound of the snare by producing virtual cardioid or supercardioid patterns facing directly forward at it (or rearwards away from it) instead of figure-8 patterns that are equally sensitive in both directions.

Of course it's also interesting to compare other aspects such as the difference in pickup of the violin off to one side, and the low-frequency extension difference of the omnis verses the fig-8s.  However, I think the center-forward position of the snare drum makes for a really good example of what this directivity enhancement of adding Mid/Side matrixed bi-directionals to the omnis can do.

I wish they would have recorded the front-of-sphere-mounted cardioid and included that in the file set as well.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Online pohaku

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2018, 07:03:25 PM »
There are pretty positive comments on the blumlein model over on GS.  Sounds like something worth checking out.
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Offline Chuck

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2018, 03:33:32 PM »
Is there a price sheet somewhere? Just trying to get an idea of how much they cost in US $$.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2018, 04:56:54 PM »
The website shows pricing on the website homepage for the Blumlein stereo mic, the fig-8 and the short gun (currently $800, $500, & $600 USD respectively + shipping).  I found downloadable response graphs for others but don't see pricing on them.
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Offline Chuck

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2018, 06:34:50 PM »
Thanks Gb!
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: (2) Microtech Gefell M300, (2) AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, (2) CAD GXL1200 (cardioid and sub-cardioid capsule & electronics mod), (2) Audix M1290-o, (2) Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, (2) Naiant MSH-1O, (2) Naiant AKG Active cables, (2) Church CA-11 (cardioid), (2) CAD C9, (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2018, 06:41:27 PM »
No prob.  There may be more info on the others on their FB page, but I don't have much patience for FB.
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Offline muj

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2018, 02:52:15 AM »
800 USD for the CSM88, but sounds like a 2400 USD...get one b4 a dealer network develops and price goes up 2-3x

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Offline b9audio

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2018, 06:46:30 AM »
B9audio CSM88 now flown in the National Concert Hall in Taipei, Taiwan. It replaced the Neumann USM69 at about the same spot. USM69 is certainly legendary icon and perform extremely well. The concern with USM69 is the size that always block someone when a larger ensemble performing and video camera is taking the shot.
Low profile is only one of the benefit of CSM88, highest sonic quality is essential for this grand concert hall and CSM88 exhibit highest quality apparently.
I compared CSM88 and the nearby MSTC64 during an orchestra rehearsal. it is very interesting that the MSTC64 is one of my favorite, but in this case, CSM88 is more charming with space sound. I thought it might answer my puzzle why some many experienced recording engineer like to use Blumlein stereo over ORTF stereo.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2018, 04:37:21 PM »
Thanks for joining the discussion!

I compared CSM88 and the nearby MSTC64 during an orchestra rehearsal. it is very interesting that the MSTC64 is one of my favorite, but in this case, CSM88 is more charming with space sound. I thought it might answer my puzzle why some many experienced recording engineer like to use Blumlein stereo over ORTF stereo.

Hard to beat Blumlein for good translation of ambience plus holographic imaging, assuming it can be placed in the perfect spot in a good sounding room.  ORTF is more universal and far less demanding of excellent acoustics and placement, yet the compromises which provide that wider applicability are just that- compromises.  This is only my opinion of course.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2018, 05:08:43 PM »
B9Audio,

If I may be so bold, please consider the possibility of producing a Mid/Side stereo microphone by combination of your CM150F supercardioid and CM180 bi-directional capsules in a single-body, end-address microphone.  That would be attractive for live music recordists by essentially producing a simple and compact microphone which produces a virtual crossed-hypercardioid pair upon Mid/Side decode, which I've sometimes refer to as "forward-biased Blumlein" around here as it provides many of the same sonic attributes, yet with just enough additional forward focus and increased stereo recording angle to have much greater practical application in many cases.  I suspect such a microphone might also be attractive as a light-weight stereo option for boom-operators.

I'm not sure if your capsules are modular and detach from the amplifiers or not.  If so it would be great to be able to switch the mid capsules between between omni, cardioid, supercardioid, your CM170 short-gun, or even a second bi-directional capsule for Blumlein.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline heathen

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2018, 05:44:16 PM »
B9Audio,

If I may be so bold, please consider the possibility of producing a Mid/Side stereo microphone by combination of your CM150F supercardioid and CM180 bi-directional capsules in a single-body, end-address microphone.  That would be attractive for live music recordists by essentially producing a simple and compact microphone which produces a virtual crossed-hypercardioid pair upon Mid/Side decode, which I've sometimes refer to as "forward-biased Blumlein" around here as it provides many of the same sonic attributes, yet with just enough additional forward focus and increased stereo recording angle to have much greater practical application in many cases.  I suspect such a microphone might also be attractive as a light-weight stereo option for boom-operators.

I'm not sure if your capsules are modular and detach from the amplifiers or not.  If so it would be great to be able to switch the mid capsules between between omni, cardioid, supercardioid, your CM170 short-gun, or even a second bi-directional capsule for Blumlein.

Being able to switch the mid capsules would make that a very, very cool design.  Does anything like that, with switchable mid capsules, in a single stereo mic currently exist?
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Offline muj

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2018, 02:44:10 AM »
MS mic would be nice :coolguy: :coolguy: :coolguy: :coolguy: :coolguy: :coolguy:

Offline b9audio

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2018, 05:53:26 AM »
B9Audio,

If I may be so bold, please consider the possibility of producing a Mid/Side stereo microphone by combination of your CM150F supercardioid and CM180 bi-directional capsules in a single-body, end-address microphone.  That would be attractive for live music recordists by essentially producing a simple and compact microphone which produces a virtual crossed-hypercardioid pair upon Mid/Side decode, which I've sometimes refer to as "forward-biased Blumlein" around here as it provides many of the same sonic attributes, yet with just enough additional forward focus and increased stereo recording angle to have much greater practical application in many cases.  I suspect such a microphone might also be attractive as a light-weight stereo option for boom-operators.

I'm not sure if your capsules are modular and detach from the amplifiers or not.  If so it would be great to be able to switch the mid capsules between between omni, cardioid, supercardioid, your CM170 short-gun, or even a second bi-directional capsule for Blumlein.

Interesting idea. When planning CSM88, there're some following plan:
CSM44, side address, XY cardioid stereo. Very good for spot, not suitable for main stereo. (Too narrow)
CSM78, MS stereo shotgun, end address certainly.
CSM58, MS stereo, not decided end address or side address.
CSM48, MS stereo, not decided end address or side address.
CSM28..... kind of puzzle idea..... Omni center..... or..... can it be a variable directional mic when facing omni and figure-8 on the same direction? User can get any kind of directivity, and it will be a true omni and figure-8, not back to back cardioid.... Especially the omni one, the low frequency response will not be affected by distance.

However, all above is not a exchangeable M channel, instead they will share the same stereo pre-stage (CSMP-1).

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2018, 11:45:21 AM »
As a professional grade MS microphone it will be preferable to have Mid and Side output directly.  You might consider offering an optional MS>LR matrix adapter in a short amplifier body which would be inserted between the the microphone and mic-cable if direct LR output is desired, as that approach would eliminate the complexity of housing a switch and matrix circuitry in the microphone amplifier body while providing the same functionality.

End-address is the prefered format for the type of live music recording most folks at Taperssection are doing (and I presume would also be prefered for boom use), because that orientation is easier to aim appropriately with a windscreen in place and can be considerably less visually intrusive atop a microphone stand.  However, side address achieves closer coincidence in the stereo plane and may be preferred for studio and spot use.  I'm not sure to what extent the offset between the capsules in end-address orientation actually affects the hf polar patterns and resulting sound in a practical sense.  You probably have a better sense of the significance or lack of if of that.

Quote
CSM28..... kind of puzzle idea..... Omni center..... or..... can it be a variable directional mic when facing omni and figure-8 on the same direction? User can get any kind of directivity, and it will be a true omni and figure-8, not back to back cardioid.... Especially the omni one, the low frequency response will not be affected by distance.

Yes, some very interesting applications with that one.

Such a microphone could be quite useful in the multichannel array techniques I tend to champion around here, which are simple enough to be setup using a single microphone stand.  The approach builds upon a basic foundation of a spaced pair of omnis plus a center directional microphone.  One of the first improvements on this the substitution of a coincident stereo pair for the single center microphone.  An end-address CSM78 or CSM58 would work nicely in that position in most cases.

A step further would be substitution of pair of CSM28 for the spaced omnis, with the end-address omni Mids facing directly outwards to either side, such that the omnis are pointed 180 degrees away from one another and the fig-8s are facing fore/aft.  In that configuration the microphones are setup as sideways-facing end-address Mid/Side pairs, but would be used more like the variable-pattern technique you describe, providing front/back pattern control over the omni pair.  The recordest gains greater control over the direct/reverberant pickup ratio in the spaced omni pair, and can adjust that balance to taste after the recording has been made.

In total, that's three Mid/Side microphones feeding 6 recorded channels, providing control over the coincident stereo spread across the center of playback image in combination with control over the nature of the ambient pickup from the wide omnis.  This relatively simple setup is also leverageable for surround by forming a rear-facing, wide-spaced cardioid pair from the omnis, subsequently routed to the surround channels.  This is somewhat similar to your VR ball microphone, excluding Z-axis and substituting the wider A-B omni spacing for a spherical baffle.

Interchangeable Mid capsules would make these microphones fantastically flexible and attractive, and would be a unique feature as far as I'm aware, but is obviously only applicable if your system is designed as such.  I don't see the lack of that feature as being a problem as long as the pricing for individual complete microphones remains attractive.

Thanks for the ear and best of luck moving forward!
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2018, 10:00:06 PM »
As a professional grade MS microphone it will be preferable to have Mid and Side output directly.  You might consider offering an optional MS>LR matrix adapter in a short amplifier body which would be inserted between the the microphone and mic-cable if direct LR output is desired, as that approach would eliminate the complexity of housing a switch and matrix circuitry in the microphone amplifier body while providing the same functionality.

Agree, direct MS is the way to go. Since the amateur market is crowded, and all the professional gear got MS matrix already. I'll save my time, and provide other more unique solution.

Quote
End-address is the prefered format for the type of live music recording most folks at Taperssection are doing (and I presume would also be prefered for boom use), because that orientation is easier to aim appropriately with a windscreen in place and can be considerably less visually intrusive atop a microphone stand.  However, side address achieves closer coincidence in the stereo plane and may be preferred for studio and spot use.  I'm not sure to what extent the offset between the capsules in end-address orientation actually affects the hf polar patterns and resulting sound in a practical sense.  You probably have a better sense of the significance or lack of if of that.

Yes, I think the same. Easier to point the mic with end address capsule. Since the on-axis got the most significant time offset at about 15-20 mm, and figure-8 got minimum response at this direction. It maybe quote ok for most of the spectrum. Certainly not perfect for perfectionist, but there're still combination solution in that case. 

Quote
Such a microphone could be quite useful in the multichannel array techniques I tend to champion around here, which are simple enough to be setup using a single microphone stand.  The approach builds upon a basic foundation of a spaced pair of omnis plus a center directional microphone.  One of the first improvements on this the substitution of a coincident stereo pair for the single center microphone.  An end-address CSM78 or CSM58 would work nicely in that position in most cases.

A step further would be substitution of pair of CSM28 for the spaced omnis, with the end-address omni Mids facing directly outwards to either side, such that the omnis are pointed 180 degrees away from one another and the fig-8s are facing fore/aft.  In that configuration the microphones are setup as sideways-facing end-address Mid/Side pairs, but would be used more like the variable-pattern technique you describe, providing front/back pattern control over the omni pair.  The recordest gains greater control over the direct/reverberant pickup ratio in the spaced omni pair, and can adjust that balance to taste after the recording has been made.

In total, that's three Mid/Side microphones feeding 6 recorded channels, providing control over the coincident stereo spread across the center of playback image in combination with control over the nature of the ambient pickup from the wide omnis.  This relatively simple setup is also leverageable for surround by forming a rear-facing, wide-spaced cardioid pair from the omnis, subsequently routed to the surround channels.  This is somewhat similar to your VR ball microphone, excluding Z-axis and substituting the wider A-B omni spacing for a spherical baffle.

I read the post, but cannot find the attached PDF [>>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<]. Not sure I fully understand your setup.

Quote
Interchangeable Mid capsules would make these microphones fantastically flexible and attractive, and would be a unique feature as far as I'm aware, but is obviously only applicable if your system is designed as such.  I don't see the lack of that feature as being a problem as long as the pricing for individual complete microphones remains attractive.

It is very interesting, I will look into this and it could be done.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2018, 10:48:02 AM »
I read the post, but cannot find the attached PDF [>>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<]. Not sure I fully understand your setup.

If you follow that link it should take you to a particular post in the Oddball Microphone Techniques thread (pt1). I just edited the link, and it now appears to be working here.  At the bottom of that post you will find links to a little PDF booklet in several sections which graphically illustrates the approach, which is more of a generalized architecture rather than any singular setup.  The booklet is designed to provide an overview of that architecture, in addition to the suggested progression as recorded channel count increases from 3 up to 8 or more channels.

Both of the setups I described in my previous post here are included there- The 4 channel variant using a directional Mid/Side pair in the center between spaced omnis is shown on page 2.  The 6 channel variant I describe which also turns the spaced omnis into front/back facing Mid/Side pairs is shown at the bottom of page 5.

In general, the intent of this architecture is to provide increased control over direct/reverberant balance by optimizing separate portions of the array for each of those aspects, providing the recordist some degree of control over that vital balance at mixdown in such a way that they combine well without conflicts. The higher channel count versions provide additional control over center imaging and early reflections from the sides via the addition of the Optimum-Cardioid-Triangle-like (OCT) arrangement using sideways facing supercards.

The setup I'm currently using is the 6 channel variant shown at the top of page 5, which uses a 4-way diamond-shaped supercardioid arrangement in the center between spaced omnis.  This might be described as something of a Double OCT arrangement between spaced omnis or as OCT surround except using more widely spaced omnis and only a single rear-facing dedicated ambience/surround microphone instead of a pair.

I currently use spherical attachments on the wide omnis to provide some control of their hf directionality depending on how they are aimed.  I hope to experiment next with the 8 channel variant on the bottom of page 6, which turns the spaced omnis into front/back facing M/S pairs, further increasing direct/reverberant control and providing additional options for feeding surround channels.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

 

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