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Author Topic: What Microphone Is This?  (Read 949 times)

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Offline Tim Leavy

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What Microphone Is This?
« on: September 06, 2018, 01:12:35 AM »
Does anyone know what vocal microphone this is?
I've been trying to figure it out for ages and keep coming up empty.
Circa late 1980's.


« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 01:17:05 AM by Tim Leavy »
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Offline bobby bourbon

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Offline Tim Leavy

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Re: What Microphone Is This?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2018, 03:12:06 AM »
Someone just ID'd it for me.
Milab Microphones LC-25
Apparently Dan Healy's personal all-time favorite vocal mic. They do sound really sweet. Gonna try to see if I can find a used one in good shape
  :)



« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 03:18:48 AM by Tim Leavy »
MICS: DPA 4011A ~ Sennheiser MKH-416 ~ AKG C414 XLII ~ Nakamichi CM-300 (CP-1 and CP-4)
DECK: Sound Devices MixPre-6
CABLES: Canare L-4E6S Star Quad XLR
HARDWARE:
● Manfrotto 1004BAC Master Stand
● Manfrotto 154 Microphone Spreader Bar
● Neewer NW-036 Microphone Bars x3 (Built Like A Tank)
● Audio-Technica AT8410A Shock Mounts x4
● Rhythm Tech RT 7500 MGT Mountable Gig Tray
SOFTWARE: Adobe Audition ~ TLH (Traders Little Helper)

Offline morst

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Re: What Microphone Is This?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2018, 12:31:31 PM »
Cool! I always thought they were Sennheisers, but never really followed up.
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Offline 108Ω

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Re: What Microphone Is This?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2018, 11:40:40 PM »
You may find the LSR-1000 to be fairly similar in look and sound.
Of course, this is a vocal condenser cardioid, probably not well suited for distance mic'ing.         I wonder?

http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Milab/LSR-1000
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 11:44:04 PM by 108Ω »
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Offline DSatz

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Re: What Microphone Is This?
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2018, 01:52:41 AM »
That's a good intuition. Directional microphones designed for close-up vocals generally use high diaphragm tension to reduce breath noise and "popping" from plosive consonants. The naturally-occurring proximity effect brings their low-frequency response to something like normal for the person who's speaking or singing, but when you use a mike like that to record beyond a short distance, its low-frequency response will droop severely--a typical example would be -12 dB at 50 Hz.

The clearest way to see this is to compare microphones that exist in both a general-purpose version and an otherwise identical close-speech version. A classic example is the Neumann KM 84 and its speech cardioid equivalent, the KM 85, with identical acoustical design but differing diaphragm tensions. Their frequency response curves, based on a one-meter measurement distance, are shown below. But proximity effect at one meter is actually still a (small) factor for cardioids, so the actual low-frequency sensitivity at greater miking distances would be slightly less than shown here.

--best regards
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 01:55:45 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline morst

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Re: What Microphone Is This?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2018, 05:08:03 AM »
That's a good intuition. Directional microphones designed for close-up vocals generally use high diaphragm tension to reduce breath noise and "popping" from plosive consonants. The naturally-occurring proximity effect brings their low-frequency response to something like normal for the person who's speaking or singing, but when you use a mike like that to record beyond a short distance, its low-frequency response will droop severely--a typical example would be -12 dB at 50 Hz.

The clearest way to see this is to compare microphones that exist in both a general-purpose version and an otherwise identical close-speech version. A classic example is the Neumann KM 84 and its speech cardioid equivalent, the KM 85, with identical acoustical design but differing diaphragm tensions.
WOW!


I did not know that.


Thanks (again and again) DSatz, for sharing the knowledge!
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Offline DSatz

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Re: What Microphone Is This?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2018, 10:08:18 PM »
I just want to add, and I hope it's not too much information: One of my frustrations with published frequency response curves for microphones is that no one (to my knowledge) follows the DIN/IEC standard, which specifies that the measurement should be made (in effect) so that proximity effect isn't in the picture at all. Instead, most manufacturers of professional studio microphones make their measurements and then adjust the curves to reflect what the response would be like at a 1-meter distance. This basically means that all published curves for directional microphones are artificially boosted to some extent at low frequencies.

The degree of this boost depends largely on the directional pattern. It is greatest for figure-8s, less for hyper- and supercardioids, less than that for cardioids, and almost negligible for patterns between cardioid and omni, such as "wide cardioid". In other words, it is greatest just where the actual low-frequency response tends to be weakest, and least where the actual low-frequency response tends to be strongest. Thus it conceals some of the effect that one's choice of pattern has on low-frequency response for more distant recording.

Manufacturers are essentially forced to do this because everyone else has been doing it for so long. I don't see any prospect of the cycle being broken any time soon. Instead, I've seen something like the reverse occurring: In recent years, some manufacturers have decided to use even closer (smaller) measurement differences, which makes the effect even more severe.

I break this down into two general cases. One is speech/communications microphones, on the theory that their published graphs should show the frequency response that would be obtained at miking distances typically used in that application. There would be real justification for this practice, in my opinion, IF such graphs were clearly labeled and especially if the more typical one-meter curve were also shown.
  • I fear that many people on this forum, who have bought small directional microphone capsules designed for speech and other communications applications, may have fallen into a trap--with wishful thinking being another powerful motivating factor. I always caution people to read the manufacturer's product descriptions carefully. I've been involved in writing those descriptions myself for over 40 years; it is done very carefully by the better manufacturers. If the manufacturer says that their directional microphone or capsule is intended for speech or communications applications (as the very large majority of all microphones in the entire world are--music recording represents only a small sliver of the market), that generally means that their response has been tailored for use at distances such as maybe six inches from the sound source, where proximity effect is strong. Such a microphone or capsule cannot have full-range response when it is used for more distant recording, unless it's a pressure transducer (i.e. a pure single-diaphragm omni).
More regrettably in my opinion, some manufacturers measure their directional microphones (or "correct" the curves of measurements originally made at greater distances) so that they show the response at, say, 30 cm (about one foot) instead of the usual one meter--but in this case purely for marketing reasons, because it makes the low-frequency response look better for all-purpose recording, not because close speech pickup is the primary application. To me that seems ethically questionable, but at least two of the companies that I know for sure have been doing it are otherwise very fine manufacturers. It muddies the waters, and people should keep it in mind when comparing graphs--but you may have to write and ask the manufacturer what the measurement distance was. I've done it, and I hope that the more people do it, the more open the companies will eventually be about the practices that they're following.

--best regards
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 01:08:00 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

 

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