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Author Topic: Zoom H3-VR  (Read 1214 times)

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Offline sos

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« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 03:22:34 PM by sos »
Mics
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Offline heathen

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2018, 03:21:40 PM »
I bet they'll sell a ton of these, though I doubt many tapers will be buying them.
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | AT AE5100s | AT853s (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3s | DPA 4061s | CA-14 omnis | Studio Projects CS5
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Offline relefunt

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2018, 03:36:10 PM »
Everyone who wants to know how to stealth tape — you put this on the top of your head and try to act natural. That’s all you need right there!
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 04:19:12 PM by relefunt »
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2018, 03:39:51 PM »
awesome !

Offline heathen

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2018, 03:41:51 PM »
Rveryone who wants to know about how to stealth tape — you put this on the top of your head and try to act natural. That’s all you need right there!

Goodbye kangol, hello dunce cap!
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Offline ThePiedPiper

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2018, 04:03:27 PM »
I'm pre-ordering. Very excited about this. I "think" I have a very good use for it ... can't wait!

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2018, 05:45:45 PM »
this will be a great mic for bands to play with.   Recording practices and gigs and what not....., very slick IMO.

Offline borjam

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2018, 02:17:15 AM »
Now maybe Rycote or Cinela will release a proper windproof hat for it  >:D
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Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2018, 07:06:55 AM »
I always thought of the H2N as "a mic that records" but in this case, there is no other way of describing it.  The whole point of the device is the mic array and the processing behind it.  So, it will sink or swim according to the quality of those mics.  The device has no point if the mics are not adequate.  Right now I am not seeing any info about the specs of the mics.  It's very likely that we will know nothing about them till the reviews are in.  So personally I wouldn't dream of pre-ordering.

What gives me cause for optimism is that they could use capsules with some deficiences but remedy those deficiences in the following electronics, given that the capsules are going to be used with the device and nothing else.

On the other hand, for myself, I don't hear a significant difference in built in mic quality between the H1N, H2, and H2N.  Will the H3 use H1N capsules, but just twice as many, or something completely new?  Lack of any mention in the blurb (that I have read) about mic quality makes me wonder.  It would have been nice to have read something about "newly developed mic capsules" or the like.

Offline ThePiedPiper

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2018, 08:55:46 PM »
I always thought of the H2N as "a mic that records" but in this case, there is no other way of describing it.  The whole point of the device is the mic array and the processing behind it.  So, it will sink or swim according to the quality of those mics.  The device has no point if the mics are not adequate.  Right now I am not seeing any info about the specs of the mics.  It's very likely that we will know nothing about them till the reviews are in.  So personally I wouldn't dream of pre-ordering.

What gives me cause for optimism is that they could use capsules with some deficiences but remedy those deficiences in the following electronics, given that the capsules are going to be used with the device and nothing else.

On the other hand, for myself, I don't hear a significant difference in built in mic quality between the H1N, H2, and H2N.  Will the H3 use H1N capsules, but just twice as many, or something completely new?  Lack of any mention in the blurb (that I have read) about mic quality makes me wonder.  It would have been nice to have read something about "newly developed mic capsules" or the like.

Well said. I agree (read: FINGERS CROSSED).

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2018, 10:05:14 AM »
oh, i'm sure they will be whatever crappy stock china-caps they have always been using.

Offline intpseeker

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2018, 08:14:40 PM »
Specs
Recording Media:    

Cards compatible with microSD/microSDHC/microSDXC specifications
(Class 4 or higher)
Recording formats:    

Ambisonics  A,  Ambisonics  B  (FuMa/AmbiX)
WAV  4ch  poly  (supports  BWF  and  iXML):  44.1  kHz/16-bit,  44.1  kHz/24-bit,  48  kHz/16-bit,  48  kHz/24-bit,  96  kHz/16-bit,  96  kHz/24-bit
Stereo
WAV  stereo  (supports  BWF  and  iXML):  44.1  kHz/16-bit,  44.1  kHz/24-bit,  48kHz/16-bit,  48  kHz/24-bit,  96  kHz/16-bit,  96  kHz/24-bit
Binaural
WAV  stereo  (supports  BWF  and  iXML):  44.1  kHz/16-bit,  44.1  kHz/24-bit,  48kHz/16-bit,  48  kHz/24-bit
Display:    

1.25" monochrome LCD (96×64)
Motion sensor:    

6 axes (3-axis gyro, 3-axis acceleration)
Built-in Ambisonic mic:    

4 matched unidirectional condenser mics
Maximum sound pressure input: 120 dB SPL
Mic gain: +18 – +48 dB
LINE OUT:    

Connector: 3.5 mm stereo mini
Maximum output level: −10 dBu (1 kHz, 10 kΩ load)
PHONE OUT:    

Connector: 3.5 mm stereo mini
Maximum output level: 20 mW + 20 mW (into 32Ω load)
USB:    

Connector: microUSB

Mass storage operation

    USB 2.0 High Speed

Audio interface operation

    2 in/2 out (stereo/binaural input), USB 2.0 Full Speed
    44.1 kHz/16-bit, 48 kHz/16-bit
    4 in/2 out ( Ambisonics A/FuMa/AmbiX input), USB 2.0 High Speed
    44.1 kHz/24-bit, 48 kHz/24-bit

Power:    

2 AA batteries (alkaline, rechargeable NiMH or lithium)
AC adapter (ZOOM AD-17): DC 5V/1A (supports USB bus power)
Estimated continuous recording time using batteries:    

48 kHz/24-bit, FuMa Rec Mode

     Alkaline batteries: about 11.5 hours
     NiMH batteries (1900 mAh): about 11.5 hours
     Lithium batteries: about 24 hours



    • The above values are approximate.
    • Continuous battery operation times were determined using in-house testing methods. They will vary greatly according to use conditions.

External dimensions:    

76 mm (W) × 78 mm (D) × 123 mm (H)
Weight (main unit only):    

120 g
Mics:        Akg 451 eb A51's, ck-1's, ck-2's, ck 8's
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Pre:          ST-9100
Cables:     XTC Silvers, DT47-12's
Recorders: ACM PMD660
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Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2018, 12:59:19 AM »
My point exactly - without specs relating to actual mic quality, the rest is of academic interest.  We simply don't know whether this will be crap or amazing.

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2018, 08:10:04 AM »
I expect it will be amazingly crappy.   
honestly,  I bet it will be cool sounding in terms of what you can "carve" out of a recording, but the sonic characteristics will be that of typical cheap china caps.   brassy and shrill.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2018, 11:15:07 AM »
I always thought of the H2N as "a mic that records" but in this case, there is no other way of describing it.  The whole point of the device is the mic array and the processing behind it. So, it will sink or swim according to the quality of those mics.  The device has no point if the mics are not adequate.
I expect it will be amazingly crappy.   
honestly,  I bet it will be cool sounding in terms of what you can "carve" out of a recording, but the sonic characteristics will be that of typical cheap china caps.   brassy and shrill.

I'm with Nick in that I don't think the quality of the microphones is the main thing of importance here, and see that as rather quite secondary, as it must be to keep the cost reasonable. The "all in one", simple to use nature of the device is its primary feature and the main attraction.  The key is the array being directly linked to the recorder and it's built-in ambisonic processing.  This opens up ambisonics to a new and much larger audience than recording geeks, acousticians, and academics.

The primary value here is that all the PITA ambisonic stuff is taken care of internally, relieving the recordist of the biggest burdens of recording ambisonically.  No 4ch wiring harnesses or clunky power supplies for each capsule. No need to match gains perfectly across all channels on a multichannel recorder and maintain that match while changing gain during a recording session.  No need to correctly sequence the resulting files when importing them into a format conversion app.  No need for an app at all to get usable output, although that functionality is available for greater flexibility and post manipulation than what one can do direct out of the device.

Because of all that, I see this particular move to "all in one" as a far bigger deal for ambisonics than the "all in one" shift away from external preamps and ADC's in the taping world a decade ago.  That was mostly about increased convenience, simplicity, and weight without taking too big a hit on quality.  This is about tapping into a new customer market entirely.  Serious users will likely stick with other ambisonic mics for now, but this type of implementation is the future IMO.

What gives me cause for optimism is that they could use capsules with some deficiencies but remedy those deficiences in the following electronics, given that the capsules are going to be used with the device and nothing else.

Yes.  That's one advantage the TetraMic has over its competition- the use of corrective filtering specific to the particular microphone.  Presumably other A-format output ambisonic mics also do correction specific to the capsule configuration geometry within their A-format conversion apps, but the TetraMic is the only one I'm aware of which also corrects for the specific response of each capsule, using a correction file linked the microphone's serial number.

All that could be employed within this device, but I doubt it.  We won't be privy to all that secret sauce, but my suspicion is that this device will correct generically but not specifically- that is to say, I think they will optimize for the dimensions of the tetrahedral configuration and apply average response corrections for the microphone capsules used, but will not correct for specific response variations between individual capsules.  That would be too costly to do for each mic at this price point.

This does address the biggest hassles I have running TetraMic though.  For years I've been thinking of having a small custom 4-channel mic-power-supply/ganged-preamp built so that I could attach the TetraMic, preamp and a DR2d together as a single compact unit.  This recognizes that impulse and implements it nicely.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2018, 11:29:46 AM »
A primary specification and constraint of any tetrahedral arrangement ambisonic microphone is how close together the capsules are, measured by the radius of an imaginary sphere tangential to all  four capsule diaphragm faces.

The closer together the diaphragms, the better the microphone will behave at high frequencies.  Above a threshold defined by that dimension (corresponding to frequency wavelength) the matrixing breaks down and the virtual polar patterns go wonky and get pretty ugly.

I don't see that specified for the H3-VR, but it will be sure to be checked and reported in any truly serious review.  That said, given the market target I mostly expect more superficial reviews that basically report on how easy it is to use and how ambisonics is cool, and expect most of those reviewers to be completely unaware of this important specification and it's implications.

All in all, its a a very cool device at an attractive price.  Kudos Zoom.
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Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline goodcooker

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2018, 12:08:56 PM »
One of these and a chin strap and you are stealthing VR goodness FOB ...



Seriously though I may get one of these. For the price it would be cool just to play around with and if I don't like it I can give it to the Marketing Manager at work so he can create VR content for our website. I work at a university so anything we can do that's cool and trendy makes us look better. Seems from a brief look that it can be vertically or end address? I thought one of the selling points of ambisonics is that you can point it any direction later...

Also this - "Staying out of the shot can be tricky when recording a 360-degree video, which is why the H3 Control App lets you remotely access transport controls, level settings, and metadata notes right from your iOS device.*

*Optional BTA-1 adapter required
"
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 12:20:51 PM by goodcooker »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2018, 12:33:17 PM »
Seems from a brief look that it can be vertically or end address? I thought one of the selling points of ambisonics is that you can point it any direction later...

Part of the all-in-one simplifying innovation of the thing is that it incorporates a "which way is up" sensor. It knows how the device is oriented and allows it to automatically accommodate for vertical right-side-up or vertical inverted, or end-address right-side-up or end-address inverted. 

Beyond that, yes, with full-sphere ambisonics you can manually re-orient the virtual orientation however you like.

But simply automatically reconfiguring the matrixing to accommodate for mic orientation and making that invisible to the user represents a significant reduction in complexity and user error.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2018, 01:02:17 AM »
I agree with everything you say, Gutbucket, and bow deeply to your knowledg of the subject - personally I never got beyond MS stereo in terms of complexity!  However, I still feel that the device will sink or swim based on capsule quality - indeed we have to remember the price point but, apart from everything else on offer, the truly unique aspect of this device compared with every other compact recorder on the market is that it has no inputs of any sort.  (In the nature of the thing, that's inevitable).

Almost everyone here seems to regard the built in mics of the devices we discuss as being something to be used when all else fails - we have our own favourite external mic rigs to use with our recorders - but this time, it's the internals or nothing.

It's advertised here in Australia for pre-order - I'm really hoping the reviews will be positive because I need a really, really good excuse to invest in one of these given that I have no particular use case, these days!  But I want one....

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Zoom H3-VR
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2018, 04:43:45 AM »
At risk of posting what everyone already knows....

Sound sample in a vR context = https://youtu.be/CLP-qyvNRSw

recommended by the guy who made the above video at

https://youtu.be/W7zHwep5zMI

Essential info re the available recording modes -

https://youtu.be/7hyQyjyXzkg

Playback options, including a very cool mode where you can rotate the device during playback to rotate the soundfield -

https://youtu.be/viSiEPFYp5s


 

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