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Author Topic: New SONY PCM-A10  (Read 45357 times)

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Offline Records

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #120 on: January 19, 2019, 11:26:22 PM »

As always, David is right. I seem to have made a mistake with my original measurements. Some of the WAVE files contained peaks at the start or end of the files. I have no idea what caused them (probably some kind of handling noise), but when analyzing only the part of the audio without those peaks, the results are way more consistent. Therefore, I have edited my original post to reflect the corrected values. Could everyone who quoted those please edit their posts, so no future reader will get confused?

Anyway, I just finished a new test with a 220Ω resistor (which is the output impedance of my tinybox) and the new results are listed below. I also tested the MixPre's Aux input, which seems to be significantly louder than all the other recorders.

Please note that the dB values CAN NOT be compared between tests because the recorders are newly calibrated for each test. What can be compared are the relative differences between recorders in each test.

220Ω test results:
Description| Input Calibrated To| Value
A10 Mic Input| -6.0 dB| -85.3 dB
M10 Mic Input| -6.0 dB| -75.9 dB
MixPre-6 Mic Input 1| -6.0 dB| -99.6 dB
MixPre-6 Aux Input 5| -6.0 dB| -65.4 dB

I have uploaded all files from both tests here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1L7-jZ-l5_YRqOYLaKM8DBZTEBKK9oKKz

Please note that for the A10 and M10 recordings, only the left channel was connected to the load resistor. Therefore, only the results of the left channels are significant for the tests. Please ignore the right channels.

Sorry I'm still relatively amateur on audio, but I currently have an M10 and was curious as to how the preamps/noise are compared to the A10? I use my M10 to plug in a line-in to record events or plug a lav mic into it, so I'm just curious as to if the A10 is better, comparable or worse than the M10 in these uses?

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #121 on: January 21, 2019, 07:32:10 AM »
anybody know how this compares to R07 on line and mic in noise?  i know we had the comp in the beginning but was noise ever measured?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 08:10:57 AM by jerryfreak »
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Offline Sebastian

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #122 on: January 21, 2019, 01:48:22 PM »
Sorry I'm still relatively amateur on audio, but I currently have an M10 and was curious as to how the preamps/noise are compared to the A10? I use my M10 to plug in a line-in to record events or plug a lav mic into it, so I'm just curious as to if the A10 is better, comparable or worse than the M10 in these uses?

The A10 is about 10dB quieter than the M10, which is important for recording quiet sounds, recording music with great dynamics or just for running your levels lower (lower noise floor = less audible noise). It is also important for 24-bit recording (to make use of the additional bits, the noise floor should be low enough so these bits are not just noise).

anybody know how this compares to R07 on line and mic in noise?  i know we had the comp in the beginning but was noise ever measured?

No. I returned the R07 before I had time to do those tests.
Schoeps { MK6 | MK41V | MK4 } > NBob actives > {Naiant Tinybox v2.0 | Naiant IPA | Naiant PFAs} > {Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Sony PCM-A10 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d}

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Offline Records

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #123 on: January 21, 2019, 04:53:52 PM »

The A10 is about 10dB quieter than the M10, which is important for recording quiet sounds, recording music with great dynamics or just for running your levels lower (lower noise floor = less audible noise). It is also important for 24-bit recording (to make use of the additional bits, the noise floor should be low enough so these bits are not just noise).

Thank you! So is the M10 better in any way than the A10 (besides battery life)? Built-in mics?
Does the A10 also have an "auto" gain mode like the M10 does? I know you shouldn't use auto, but it was always so useful for me on the M10 when I can't monitor the audio.

Offline dogmusic

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #124 on: January 21, 2019, 05:32:10 PM »

The A10 is about 10dB quieter than the M10, which is important for recording quiet sounds, recording music with great dynamics or just for running your levels lower (lower noise floor = less audible noise). It is also important for 24-bit recording (to make use of the additional bits, the noise floor should be low enough so these bits are not just noise).

Thank you! So is the M10 better in any way than the A10 (besides battery life)? Built-in mics?
Does the A10 also have an "auto" gain mode like the M10 does? I know you shouldn't use auto, but it was always so useful for me on the M10 when I can't monitor the audio.

Yes, it has an auto-gain control. (My A10 arrived a few days ago from Europe. It is incredibly small!)

It also has a function called “Rehearsal” where you play a one minute sample of your source material (including its loudest portion) and it will set an optimum level.

Here is the Help Guide:

https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/index.html

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Offline colargol

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #125 on: January 24, 2019, 01:57:34 AM »
Hi!
I was planning to try out my new A10 one of these days, and I am currently doing some testing back at my house...
I noticed there does not seem to be a MIC-IN high/low sensitivity setting, which has been on all my recorders through the years. Am I wrong, or is this kind of setting just not necessary anymore?
Has anyone tried to use this recorder with a battery box, like a babynbox, and had any problems?
My first impression of the recorder is pretty good. I wish the remote app for iOS had pause/stop buttons a little further away from the recording button, or maybe actually a kind of lock button that disables the stop/pause buttons until you unlock it...
-colargol
MK4s/MK41s > nbox/nbob actives > tinybox/nbox platinum/babynbox > M10/A10

Offline Sebastian

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #126 on: January 24, 2019, 03:45:15 AM »
Has anyone tried to use this recorder with a battery box, like a babynbox, and had any problems?

I have used it with a tinybox that had its gain set to zero, and had no problems at all. I ran audio in (line in).
Schoeps { MK6 | MK41V | MK4 } > NBob actives > {Naiant Tinybox v2.0 | Naiant IPA | Naiant PFAs} > {Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Sony PCM-A10 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d}

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Live Music Archive | DaD Torrents | TTD Torrents | Etree Torrents

Offline meursault

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #127 on: January 25, 2019, 05:43:22 AM »
Does it record a second file at lower rec level for safety for accidental loudness distortions?

Offline Lutzow

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #128 on: January 25, 2019, 08:14:50 AM »
Does it record a second file at lower rec level for safety for accidental loudness distortions?

The A10 has a Limiter with simple ON/OFF Setting. It looks like it hasn't this kind of digital limiter with a second lower rec level like for example the D100. But I am not sure, it needs to be tested. At least they don't mention it in the manual and I am sure they would if the feature exist ;)


Offline zeus163

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #129 on: January 28, 2019, 12:48:38 AM »
I'm thinking of pairing this with my Babynbox. I have a tinybox, which looks like it works as well. I think my question was answered a few pages back, but if I run the Babynbox and change my levels is there any noticeable noise in the recording? Or was that confirmed to be only using the external mics? I know I could switch the mic in to line in under the menu settings for either the Babynbox or the tinybox, but just thought I wouldn't even have to bother with that if I run the Babynox.

Sebastian--it appears that you have used yours the most. It looks like to me, from what I'm reading, that I would lose nothing from switching from my M10 to the A10. Would you agree with that?

Colargol--have you plugged your Babynox in yet to mic in? Did it ask you the "Plug in Power" question like the M10 does when plugging in the Babynox to the mic in?

Hopefully my fat fingers won't stop/pause the recording from the phone. It sounds like you can start the recording from the phone app which is really cool. Maybe locking the buttons on the screen could be a possible request to the makers of the app?

Sorry for all of my questions...
Kangol wearing fool...

Offline Sebastian

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #130 on: January 28, 2019, 02:48:14 AM »
Sebastian--it appears that you have used yours the most. It looks like to me, from what I'm reading, that I would lose nothing from switching from my M10 to the A10. Would you agree with that?

Well, you're losing the rugged metal case of the M10. The A10 does not feel as heavy as the M10.

Colargol--have you plugged your Babynox in yet to mic in? Did it ask you the "Plug in Power" question like the M10 does when plugging in the Babynox to the mic in?

The A10 seems to provide 3V plug-in power no matter what. This is actually the same behaviour as the M10. At least my M10 provides 3V even if I answer the Plug-in power question with "No".

About the babynbox, just ask Nick how it behaves when it is fed 3V plug-in power through its output. I have never seen a babynbox in person, but I would expect it to have output capacitors that block all DC voltage and only pass AC voltage (the audio signal). At least that's what I'd do.
Schoeps { MK6 | MK41V | MK4 } > NBob actives > {Naiant Tinybox v2.0 | Naiant IPA | Naiant PFAs} > {Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Sony PCM-A10 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d}

Recordings:
Live Music Archive | DaD Torrents | TTD Torrents | Etree Torrents

Offline colargol

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #131 on: January 28, 2019, 06:09:57 AM »
Colargol--have you plugged your Babynox in yet to mic in? Did it ask you the "Plug in Power" question like the M10 does when plugging in the Babynox to the mic in?

Hopefully my fat fingers won't stop/pause the recording from the phone. It sounds like you can start the recording from the phone app which is really cool. Maybe locking the buttons on the screen could be a possible request to the makers of the app?

I haven't tried the A10 with the babynbox yet. I am waiting for a show with no security to try out the new rig. I can try at home just to hook it up and see if get decent results.

I had the same idea about the stop/pause buttons in the app... I think I will at least comment this in my app store review. If several people do this maybe they will listen :-)

-colargol
MK4s/MK41s > nbox/nbob actives > tinybox/nbox platinum/babynbox > M10/A10

Offline zeus163

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #132 on: January 28, 2019, 09:01:21 AM »
"you're losing the rugged metal case of the M10. The A10 does not feel as heavy as the M10."

I can probably live with that. From what I'm reading and I think you said it, I don't even need to have the device leave my pocket. I'll have to practice lowering/raising the levels of the A10 while it is in my pocket. Can you start recording on the phone while the unit is on hold? Or do you have to start recording and then put the unit on hold? I'd guess the later and it's just another thing I would have to practice toggling in my pocket.

"About the babynbox, just ask Nick how it behaves when it is fed 3V plug-in power through its output."


I just sent Nick a question about this. I'm not sure if he has used an A10 yet, but I'm hoping he can answer this question.

"I haven't tried the A10 with the babynbox yet. I am waiting for a show with no security to try out the new rig. I can try at home just to hook it up and see if get decent results."

I have a couple of shows coming up that won't have security at. I can always use my Tinybox, but I want to be able to have both options available (Tinybox/Babynbox). I may just order one and find out. Although I'd like to hear from Nick first.

Thanks for your responses!
Kangol wearing fool...

Offline Sebastian

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #133 on: January 28, 2019, 09:20:55 AM »
Can you start recording on the phone while the unit is on hold? Or do you have to start recording and then put the unit on hold?

Yes! Turn on the A10, plug in your preamp, engange hold, put it in your pocket. After that, you can control everything from the phone while the unit is on hold. Nothing to practice. ;)
Schoeps { MK6 | MK41V | MK4 } > NBob actives > {Naiant Tinybox v2.0 | Naiant IPA | Naiant PFAs} > {Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Sony PCM-A10 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d}

Recordings:
Live Music Archive | DaD Torrents | TTD Torrents | Etree Torrents

Offline zeus163

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #134 on: January 28, 2019, 10:41:55 AM »
Can you start recording on the phone while the unit is on hold? Or do you have to start recording and then put the unit on hold?

Yes! Turn on the A10, plug in your preamp, engange hold, put it in your pocket. After that, you can control everything from the phone while the unit is on hold. Nothing to practice. ;)

That in itself is golden. But if I need/want to change recording levels, i have to do that on the device itself. Is that correct?

Thanks.
Kangol wearing fool...

 

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