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Author Topic: New SONY PCM-A10  (Read 42161 times)

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Offline DSatz

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #60 on: November 23, 2018, 02:10:40 PM »
Just as a comment, the main reason for using omnidirectional built-in microphones in portable recorders is that they're ~20 dB less sensitive to wind noise and solid-borne sound (thumps, etc. from handling or from sound conducted to the recorder via the table or desk that the recorder may be placed on) than directional microphones would be. If there's any solid part of the recorder between the mikes, large enough to obstruct high frequency sound, then (between that and the physical spacing) there will still be some difference information between the channels from the midrange on up, and thus some stereo effect especially if headphones are used for listening.

This type of recorder is often marketed to people who know little or nothing about recording and want to keep it that way. By using the built-in ALC along with the built-in mikes, they can record business meetings and "life events" in a fully automatic way. The microphone arrangement is "stereo enough" that spoken words can be localized fairly well--which aids greatly in comprehension when the room is reverberant and/or the mikes aren't close to the people speaking.

At this point 96 kHz recording costs Sony almost nothing to throw in, and it looks good on a spec sheet / keeps the recorder from seeming to be outdated, so why not, even though it doesn't materially help anything soundwise.
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline Zeppelinmad

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #61 on: November 28, 2018, 02:45:00 AM »
Hi Sebastian,

Did you run the mikes through a Battery Box?  I have a Sony M10 with Church Ugly Battery Box and Church CA11 Cardioids - only thing I don't like about the M10 is it's size, risk of metal detection and the fact I have to buy a new pair of Duracells every concert for fear of them running out mid show.  Recently stealthed Steven Wilson here in Melbourne and when I got outside the screen was blank!!!! I was in a panic till I got hime - fortunately the batteries ran out AFTER the final encore and I only lost some of the crowd noise as we exited the show with the house lights on!!!  The internal battery sounds like a godsend for this issue.   Battery boxes are a pain in the ass - from a stealth point of view they can be hard to explain - why would you carry a batter with a box and some wires into a venue ?? Sounds like something a terrorist would do - so I'm always conscious when I go in.  If there was a way of lighting up external mikes from the recording device it would (1) Reduce the risk of a dodgy wire slipping out during the show, (2) be one less thing and one less wire to take in (3) One less battery to run out  - so that would be a feature I'd love.  I've recorded a lot of shows with this set up - the Wilson ones are on Yeeshkul (which is the only place PT and Wilson stuff is as Dime / TTD have him as an artist that's requested no ROIO - (I don't think he did - more like his management back in the PT days)) and I'm very happy with the quality sound from these shows - the RAH ones I did in 2015 with this rig are outstanding - even if I do say so myself.  But I'm always interested in smaller, easier, safer, better quality.  So my question really is - Do I have to use a BB with the Church CA11's with this device or does the device light them up?  If not then I think it's on my Santa's list.
Cheers
Andy


Offline unidentified

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #62 on: November 28, 2018, 07:00:04 AM »
That must have been a looong Steven Wilson show. The M10 is renowned for its battery life.

Offline Sebastian

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #63 on: November 28, 2018, 07:45:46 AM »
Did you run the mikes through a Battery Box?

Yes, my mics are powered by an external box. It's a Naiant tinybox. Do a Google image search to get an idea of what it is.

I have a Sony M10 with Church Ugly Battery Box and Church CA11 Cardioids - only thing I don't like about the M10 is it's size, risk of metal detection and the fact I have to buy a new pair of Duracells every concert for fear of them running out mid show.

Try good NiMH rechargeables with over 2000 mAh. They will last for over a day and you won't have to pollute the environment by using throw-away batteries.

Battery boxes are a pain in the ass - from a stealth point of view they can be hard to explain

I've never had to explain anything - because nobody ever saw any of my rig.

So my question really is - Do I have to use a BB with the Church CA11's with this device or does the device light them up?  If not then I think it's on my Santa's list.

I can't test this as I don't have Church mics, but I would guess that the plug-in voltage the A10 provides is not enough for your mics (you probably won't find a small recorder that can do that).

In my opinion, the Church Ugly Battery Box and the mics are as small as rigs get these days. It should be possible to get that into any show.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 07:47:56 AM by Sebastian »
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Offline nulldogmas

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2018, 09:46:24 AM »
I am now officially confused about the A10 and whether it's an upgrade or just a rebranding of this:

http://designingsound.org/2017/05/15/sony-icd-sx2000-review/

Offline Sebastian

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2018, 09:51:16 AM »
Believe this is it, marketed here in the USA as ICD-SX2000...
On sale at B&H for $150 for the next 15hrs. Scoop em up!

Actually, the ICD-SX2000 is an older model that has been around for a while:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=177488

The A10 is a different recorder. Is has a slightly different button layout as well. The A10 has the power/hold switch on the same side as the input and the SD card slot, the SX2000 has the switch on the other side.

The PCM-A10 is marketed by Sony USA as, well, the PCM-A10:
https://www.sony.com/electronics/voice-recorders/pcm-a10
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 09:52:49 AM by Sebastian »
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Offline nulldogmas

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #66 on: November 28, 2018, 01:54:21 PM »
Thanks, Sebastian. Guess I'll wait for the A10 to be available somewhere other than Best Buys in New Jersey:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/voice-recorders/pcm-a10/buy

Offline Zeppelinmad

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #67 on: November 28, 2018, 04:33:23 PM »
Did you run the mikes through a Battery Box?

Yes, my mics are powered by an external box. It's a Naiant tinybox. Do a Google image search to get an idea of what it is.

I have a Sony M10 with Church Ugly Battery Box and Church CA11 Cardioids - only thing I don't like about the M10 is it's size, risk of metal detection and the fact I have to buy a new pair of Duracells every concert for fear of them running out mid show.

Try good NiMH rechargeables with over 2000 mAh. They will last for over a day and you won't have to pollute the environment by using throw-away batteries.

Battery boxes are a pain in the ass - from a stealth point of view they can be hard to explain

I've never had to explain anything - because nobody ever saw any of my rig.

So my question really is - Do I have to use a BB with the Church CA11's with this device or does the device light them up?  If not then I think it's on my Santa's list.

I can't test this as I don't have Church mics, but I would guess that the plug-in voltage the A10 provides is not enough for your mics (you probably won't find a small recorder that can do that).

In my opinion, the Church Ugly Battery Box and the mics are as small as rigs get these days. It should be possible to get that into any show.

Thanks Sebastian,

All clear.  You are quite correct - the Church gear is small - and I've never been busted - but that doesn't stop me worrying about it!  Going to a show out here in Kangaroo Land is not cheap - seeing an act like Steven Wilson is $125, seeing someone like Roger Waters is $250-400 depending on where you want to be.  Last thing you want when you've shelled out those amounts is getting politely asked to leave the venue!! OR worse- getting zapped by a metal detector and not even getting in...  So far, the main venues here in Oz don't have walk through metal detectors as they do in airports - just hired agency labour waving wands at you as you go through.  With the recent events though I'm guessing it's only a matter of time before we're taking our belts off, dropping our phones into trays and walking through gates.  I question the quality of the wands - and the staff they employ to wave them - I walked in to Roger Waters last year at the Rod Laver and was "wanded" - I was carrying my phone, had my PCM M10 behind my belt buckle just in case, wires running up and down my back, battery box in my pocket,  etc - nothing registered on the wand.  My tactic is to not be first in line and not be last in line - be in the "everyone keen to getting in crowd, security bored, big crowds waiting at the gates, time"- by this point they are just keen to get everyone through.  If you're first in line they are super thorough, if you're last in line the same.....

I will definitely be checking out the batteries you mention  - I made a mistake last time by putting in NEW but cheap AA batteries into the PCM - I turned the PCM on once seated - probably 45 minutes before the show started (I don't like messing about - turn it on, check the levels as the show kicks off, lock the device switch and leave well alone until I'm out of the venue - with the occasional check of levels during loud bits).  It was a 3 hour show (with interval) and it took another 20 minutes to get out at the end and into the carpark - so I'm guessing the PCM was running 4 hours - and the screen was blank and the device not responding to key strokes when I got to the car.  Gave me a shock..

I've, in the past, taken the gear into the show and then "set up" in the bathrooms - but it's not really ideal and if there's no trap available not really practical.  I prefer to rig up at home and walk in ready to go - but this means wires etc in place for agency staff to detect using wands !!!  Not sure wires would trigger one - but my wires run down my back - hard to explain if they did trigger a wand....

Maybe I need to go back to setting up at the show - wires in pockets next to phone and PCM, battery box secreted and hope for the best....

Or maybe I'm just over thinking it and security wands and never going to be an issue with the amount of metal in the wires / battery box...

Thanks for all your info - the other thing I like about the A10 is it looks more like a phone than the M10 - a quick wave at a 55 year old agency security staff and I don't think they'd question it....

Cheers
Andy

Offline robeti

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #68 on: November 28, 2018, 05:18:04 PM »
Can't believe some people stress about stealth audio so much.

I stealth audio and camcorder video at the same time. 2 full rigs. Including monopod.

Audio only is a joke.
mics: nakamichi cm-50 | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/)
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Offline nulldogmas

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #69 on: November 28, 2018, 05:22:48 PM »
If you're only getting 4 hours of record time from an M10 with brand-new batteries, something is very wrong. Running plug-in power will eat up the batteries somewhat faster, but I wouldn't think that much faster.

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #70 on: November 29, 2018, 01:43:29 AM »
Can't believe some people stress about stealth audio so much.

I stealth audio and camcorder video at the same time. 2 full rigs. Including monopod.

Audio only is a joke.

yeah being assauted by security guards was enough for me to stay low pro
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #71 on: December 01, 2018, 02:02:35 PM »
Can't believe some people stress about stealth audio so much.

I stealth audio and camcorder video at the same time. 2 full rigs. Including monopod.

Audio only is a joke.

Says the taper who only has to run AT>deck.
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Offline robeti

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #72 on: December 01, 2018, 03:49:39 PM »
Can't believe some people stress about stealth audio so much.

I stealth audio and camcorder video at the same time. 2 full rigs. Including monopod.

Audio only is a joke.

Says the taper who only has to run AT>deck.

-I always use a preamp or battery box.
-I've recorded stealth with a pair of full bodies naks as well.

Audio only is a joke. Always.
mics: nakamichi cm-50 | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/)
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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #73 on: December 01, 2018, 04:46:56 PM »
Can't believe some people stress about stealth audio so much.

I stealth audio and camcorder video at the same time. 2 full rigs. Including monopod.

Audio only is a joke.

Says the taper who only has to run AT>deck.

-I always use a preamp or battery box.
-I've recorded stealth with a pair of full bodies naks as well.

Audio only is a joke. Always.

Since I rarely watch video no reason for me to run video and I seriously doubt you are running video from dfc in front of the board where audio sounds best.  Running audio only where you can safely run video is a joke, that I will agree.  The ideal situation is for someone to run video where it is best and someone to run the best audio and then combine in post IMHO. 

Offline Sebastian

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #74 on: December 02, 2018, 04:32:07 AM »
Since I rarely watch video no reason for me to run video and I seriously doubt you are running video from dfc in front of the board where audio sounds best.  Running audio only where you can safely run video is a joke, that I will agree.  The ideal situation is for someone to run video where it is best and someone to run the best audio and then combine in post IMHO. 

Don't feed the troll.
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