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Author Topic: New SONY PCM-A10  (Read 45361 times)

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Offline Sebastian

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #90 on: December 08, 2018, 05:04:23 AM »
Here's one with a bit more low end. :-)
https://archive.org/details/ryleywalker2018-11-17.mk41v.flac16

I did run the same signal into both the A10 and M10 for a few shows and really couldn't make out a difference.
Schoeps { MK6 | MK41V | MK4 } > NBob actives > {Naiant Tinybox v2.0 | Naiant IPA | Naiant PFAs} > {Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Sony PCM-A10 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d}

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Offline shpy

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #91 on: December 09, 2018, 05:47:23 AM »
can somebody has info about max SPL ?

Offline Sebastian

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #92 on: December 09, 2018, 06:28:54 AM »
can somebody has info about max SPL ?

From the manual:

"Maximum sound pressure (built-in microphones): 123 dBSPL"
Schoeps { MK6 | MK41V | MK4 } > NBob actives > {Naiant Tinybox v2.0 | Naiant IPA | Naiant PFAs} > {Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Sony PCM-A10 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d}

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Offline Lutzow

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #93 on: December 09, 2018, 01:11:11 PM »
What I can tell is that LineIN works good so far. I figured out that there is a slight drop in low frequencies below 200hz. It's linear so a frequency of about 80hz has about 1-1,5db less gain.

What? Seriously? That is not good!

How did you measure/test this?

First I estimated this when I looked at the waveform of some low synthesizer signals below 200hz.
But now I tried to do a test wich might show it a bit better. It's "Pixelpeeping" and I think Sebastian is right when he says, that there is no audible difference between them , and in the end, That's what counts.
Anyway here is what I did:

First I prepared a signal test with the sine wave generator in Audacity.

This is the Waveform of the testtone.

www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_Ref.PNG  Please use this link to open the image in full resolution.
First three tones (I forgot what frequency exactly, but according to audition they are ca. 35Hz, 3K and 14k) followed by a the range from 30Hz up to 25KHz.

This file I played in Audition with the Roland UA-M10 LineOut into the three recorders available here:

1. PCM-D100 with dedicated Line IN:

www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_D100.PNG
As you see, there are some flaws, but the signal is pretty clean and linear, I come up with a closer look later.

2. PCM-M10 with dedicated Line IN:

www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_M10.PNG
looks linear to!

3. PCM-A10 in LineIN Mode:

www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_A10.PNG
If you look at the first Test Tone (35Hz) it has less gain than the rest of the file, about -2db. Also the overall signal is a bit "wavy" and not as linear as it is in the M10 or D100.
This looks strange but is no issue at all, for Recording, this would be easy to EQ if someone takes notice of it at all.



Now some zoomed-in images of the point where the frequency range starts.

1. PCM-D100:

www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_D100_Detail.PNG
Surprise, on the D100 there is not a drop in the levels, but there is some kind of "bend" in the waveform, I can't explain this, maybe someone can ;). It could also be the Soundcard producing it. The "Bend" is over at about 100hz and it shows up linear from this point on. The deviation of the bend is close to nothing and it's funny to talk about. Also the D100s signal is almost clean.

2. PCM-M10:

www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_M10_Detail.PNG
The M10 also has this kind of "bend", not worth mentioning. In the signal there are some unplanned frequency signals. Look at the Scale in wich level region they are, so they shouldn't bother any bats ;).

3. PCM-A10:

www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_A10_Detail.PNG
On the A10 you see, there is a small Level drop, It's below 40Hz, from 40Hz up it reacts just as the two other family members above.

My conclusion:
this is all theory, and it will not bother you in real-recording-life. It seems that the said frequency response in the datasheet of the A10 is actually true, and there is no cut below 40Hz but there is a small drop wich you can  EQ if there is a need for. Maybe the news is, that the frequency response applies to the LineIN mode also and not only for the internal mics.

Beside this, the A10 is great to handle, small and light. This is a much bigger difference to other portable recorders, than this sound issue is. And I have to admit I might did some mistakes in this test, I am not a professional tester  :cheers:





Offline unidentified

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #94 on: December 09, 2018, 10:24:24 PM »
Many thanks! 

Online morst

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #95 on: December 10, 2018, 12:05:51 AM »

www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_D100_Detail.PNG
Surprise, on the D100 there is not a drop in the levels, but there is some kind of "bend" in the waveform, I can't explain this, maybe someone can ;) . It could also be the Soundcard producing it. The "Bend" is over at about 100hz and it shows up linear from this point on. The deviation of the bend is close to nothing and it's funny to talk about. Also the D100s signal is almost clean.
...(snip)

My conclusion:
this is all theory, and it will not bother you in real-recording-life. It seems that the said frequency response in the datasheet of the A10 is actually true, and there is no cut below 40Hz but there is a small drop wich you can  EQ if there is a need for. Maybe the news is, that the frequency response applies to the LineIN mode also and not only for the internal mics.

Beside this, the A10 is great to handle, small and light. This is a much bigger difference to other portable recorders, than this sound issue is. And I have to admit I might did some mistakes in this test, I am not a professional tester  :cheers:
I sure appreciate your efforts! I think the "bend" you see might just be the difference between what we expect to see when we look at a sine wave, and what Audacity makes when you have it sweep frequencies upwards.


Can you provide the file so I can test my PCM-M10, PCM-D50, Tascam DR-70D and my SD Mixpre6?
:-)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 12:07:36 AM by morst »
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Offline Sebastian

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #96 on: December 10, 2018, 05:31:30 AM »
The frequency range of my microphone capsules starts at 40 Hz. Maybe that's the reason why I couldn't make out a difference.
Schoeps { MK6 | MK41V | MK4 } > NBob actives > {Naiant Tinybox v2.0 | Naiant IPA | Naiant PFAs} > {Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Sony PCM-A10 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d}

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Offline Lutzow

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #97 on: December 10, 2018, 08:15:02 AM »
Can you provide the file so I can test my PCM-M10, PCM-D50, Tascam DR-70D and my SD Mixpre6?
:-)
Sure,
take it from here:
frequencyrange_testfile (wav ca.30MB)
Would be very intersting to see if there are differences between your recorders.

The frequency range of my microphone capsules starts at 40 Hz. Maybe that's the reason why I couldn't make out a difference.
And even when they start at 20Hz it would be not a big deal ;) If I listen to your recordings, I think there is not much missing.


Offline Twenty8

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #98 on: December 20, 2018, 03:46:15 PM »
As of two weeks ago Best Buy was listed as carrying the A10 storefront, but not online.
Now I can't find anything that says they carry it.
Just as I was about to go out and grab one...
Sorta frustrating that it has barely made its way into the US market.

(Yes I know B&H carries it, but I have a Best Buy gift card)
Mics: AT831b (c,o) : AT853 (c,o) : AT3031 : Berliner CM33 : Line Audio CM3 and OM1 : Sennheiser e614 : Shure Beta98/s
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Offline gewwang

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #99 on: December 20, 2018, 04:23:42 PM »
Speaking of B&H, they charged my credit card today for $245.51 and changed the status of the order to "In stock, order sent to warehouse".

Offline mitchellm

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #100 on: December 20, 2018, 05:02:27 PM »
Speaking of B&H, they charged my credit card today for $245.51 and changed the status of the order to "In stock, order sent to warehouse".

Great news. I'd love to hear your impressions when you receive it. I'll probably purchase after the New Year, but would like a little more info/impressions. I would probably mainly use the A10 with external spoken voice mike (e.g. Shure SM58 or plugin powered lav mic), sometimes with binaural mics for ambient sounds, and a few times with other mics for live music.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 05:29:15 PM by mitchellm »

Offline willndmb

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #101 on: December 24, 2018, 11:23:28 AM »

  • For the few worrying about metal detectors. I was passing one with the A10 in the pocket and it was no issue.


Walkthroughs or wands?  That bit of news is positive.
It was a Walkthrough, I prepared myself to explain my Mp3 Player, but there was no alarm nor question. In another pocket was my mobile, so I assume the detection is comparable and less (because of its size).
if your phone didn't trip it then the setting was prob really low.
Handhelds and walk through here trip on my iPhone all day but when out of town recently didn't trip a walk through
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
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Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
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Offline gewwang

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #102 on: December 28, 2018, 11:19:56 AM »
Speaking of B&H, they charged my credit card today for $245.51 and changed the status of the order to "In stock, order sent to warehouse".

Great news. I'd love to hear your impressions when you receive it. I'll probably purchase after the New Year, but would like a little more info/impressions. I would probably mainly use the A10 with external spoken voice mike (e.g. Shure SM58 or plugin powered lav mic), sometimes with binaural mics for ambient sounds, and a few times with other mics for live music.

Haven't had a chance to do anything with it yet other than unbox it. Assuming it sounds good line in with a sonosax, I will definitely be replacing the mixpre3 with the sax>pcm-a10 based on size alone for stealthing. This thing is tiny.

Offline Sebastian

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #103 on: December 31, 2018, 07:23:02 AM »
Over the holidays I finally got around to some preamp noise measurements. I used the method suggested by Sound Devices with a 150Ω resistor between input signal and ground.

I first calibrated a few recorders (A10, M10, MixPre-6) to the same input levels using a signal generated by the Zoom F8's tone generator. I then replaced the input with a 150Ω resistor to emulate the load of a typical microphone. I recorded a few seconds and measured the resulting WAVE file's peak value.

Here are the results:

150Ω test results:
Description| Input Calibrated To| Value
A10 Mic Input| -4.0 dB| -80.0 dB
M10 Mic Input| -4.0 dB| -72.3 dB
MixPre-6 Mic Input 1| -4.0 dB| -92.2 dB
A10 Line Input| -10.0 dB| -81.6 dB
M10 Line Input| -10.0 dB| -75.0 dB
MixPre-6 Line Input 1| -10.0 dB| -92.2 dB

This shows that the A10's inputs are a little bit quieter than the M10's. Unsurprisingly, the MixPre-6 is in a whole different league, especially when compared to the M10.

Edit note: An earlier version of this post contained incorrect measurement values. These have been corrected.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2019, 05:19:54 AM by Sebastian »
Schoeps { MK6 | MK41V | MK4 } > NBob actives > {Naiant Tinybox v2.0 | Naiant IPA | Naiant PFAs} > {Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Sony PCM-A10 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d}

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Offline dactylus

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Re: New SONY PCM-A10
« Reply #104 on: December 31, 2018, 10:57:32 AM »
^^
Thanks Sebastian!
hot licks > microphones > recorder



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