Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: little Tascam single-channel recorder (DR-10X)  (Read 2411 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DSatz

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (31)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 2645
  • Gender: Male
Re: little Tascam single-channel recorder (DR-10X)
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2018, 01:30:08 PM »
one last (I hope) footnote about the DR-10X: One of the biggest complaints in the reviews I read on line was that the metering turned itself off when the unit started recording. But that is no longer true with the latest firmware. You still can't access the menu while recording, and therefore can't adjust the input gain--but now you can at least see what levels you're getting--and that could be very useful, especially if you're driving the recorder from an outboard preamp that has variable gain.

By the way, the meters allow a small amount of headroom. The last little indicator line lights up at ~2 dB below full scale.

--best regards
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 03:48:44 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline 2manyrocks

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1662
Re: little Tascam single-channel recorder (DR-10X)
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2018, 07:13:13 AM »
I have the 635A, the little interview mic.  Used to see them used on TV field recordings all the time.  Now reporters use their cell phones. 

Offline morst

  • Archivist: Camper Van Beethoven & Cracker
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3071
  • ISO ALL archival Cracker / CVB / Monks Of Doom etc
    • Soundscape Preservation Society
Re: little Tascam single-channel recorder (DR-10X)
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2018, 03:11:43 PM »
I have the 635A, the little interview mic.  Used to see them used on TV field recordings all the time.  Now reporters use their cell phones.
Test it out. The cellphone might be less noisy, just due to modern circuit design!?
Teams: Neumann, Bay Area Tapers, Multitrack, Pioneertown Tapers, Mac Geeks, Cassette Masters, Poster Collectors, Alumni of teams St Louis, Upper Midwest & Milwaukee / Southern Wisco

Offline IronFilm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 143
  • Sound Recordist for Film/TV in New Zealand
    • IronFilm
Re: little Tascam single-channel recorder (DR-10X)
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2018, 03:19:52 AM »
The DR-10x is actually a popular option for video shooters who don't trust wireless and/or don't want to spend the $ on wireless.  BH puts a white version on sale every so often for $129 if I remember right.

That is the Tascam DR10L, which is a little different.
It is a bodypack recorder which comes with a lav.

Offline jerryfreak

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1925
  • I'm a llama! (taboot)
Re: little Tascam single-channel recorder (DR-10X)
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2019, 07:01:40 AM »
love the size of the DR-10L, too bad its not 2 channel
in:
small: MK4V/41V > CMR > Tinybox or PiP Squeak or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K or R07
smaller: 4061 CORE > d:vice MMA

out:
home:Benchmark DAC1 HGC > Dynaudio BM15A active monitors
shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

Offline DSatz

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (31)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 2645
  • Gender: Male
Re: little Tascam single-channel recorder (DR-10X)
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2019, 04:47:33 PM »
Going back to the issue of clock drift between two outboard, mono recorders: The Lectrosonics recorders are specified to have better than 1 ppm clock accuracy by means of a temperature-controlled crystal oscillator ("TCXO") circuit. Tascam doesn't give any such specification for the DR-10 recorders, but the drift I observed between my two was nearly twice the maximum allowable difference between any two Lectrosonics recorders.

That's not apples vs. apples, though. In terms of clock rate variation, I don't know how typical my two Tascam recorders are of their species. Plus if these errors are randomly distributed, the discrepancy between the clock rates of two randomly selected Lectrosonics recorders should, in the great majority of cases, be distinctly less than the maximum allowable difference.

It's interesting to realize the degree to which even now, some 40 years into the digital recording "revolution", the clocks in professional recorders still can't stay in sync with one another even for modest periods of time. 1 ppm accuracy, if I'm figuring this correctly, means a potential deviation of about three samples per minute at 48 kHz--so two separate recorders each having 1 ppm accuracy could slip apart at the rate of one sample every ten seconds or so.

Of course, thinking back, the very best analog studio recorders (with crystal-controlled servo capstan motors and advanced tape tension controls on both the supply and take-up reels) specified 0.1% speed accuracy, a/k/a 1,000 ppm ... so maybe I shouldn't complain too loudly.

--best regards
« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 05:17:09 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline jerryfreak

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1925
  • I'm a llama! (taboot)
Re: little Tascam single-channel recorder (DR-10X)
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2019, 05:49:01 PM »
Going back to the issue of clock drift between two outboard, mono recorders: The Lectrosonics recorders are specified to have better than 1 ppm clock accuracy by means of a temperature-controlled crystal oscillator ("TCXO") circuit. Tascam doesn't give any such specification for the DR-10 recorders, but the drift I observed between my two was nearly twice the maximum allowable difference between any two Lectrosonics recorders.

at which point (in samples or ms) does clock drift become an audible issue? like if you drifted at maximum rate of either the lectro or the tascam, would there be a difference after an hour?

in other words, in absence of timecode, it would seem that you would either always correct/compress one stream to match the other, or almost never do it? i would think two identical modern devices with similar components would track pretty well from unit to unit
in:
small: MK4V/41V > CMR > Tinybox or PiP Squeak or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K or R07
smaller: 4061 CORE > d:vice MMA

out:
home:Benchmark DAC1 HGC > Dynaudio BM15A active monitors
shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

Offline morst

  • Archivist: Camper Van Beethoven & Cracker
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3071
  • ISO ALL archival Cracker / CVB / Monks Of Doom etc
    • Soundscape Preservation Society
Re: little Tascam single-channel recorder (DR-10X)
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2019, 06:31:49 PM »
at which point (in samples or ms) does clock drift become an audible issue? like if you drifted at maximum rate of either the lectro or the tascam, would there be a difference after an hour?

in other words, in absence of timecode, it would seem that you would either always correct/compress one stream to match the other, or almost never do it? i would think two identical modern devices with similar components would track pretty well from unit to unit
I generally allow +/- 20 ms max error, which would be +/- 960 samples at 48kHz. Some purists will say that they can hear 10ms smear but I don't find it much of a problem for rock & roll.


Sony, Tascam, Roland (Edirol)... none of these machines have tightly matched clocks between machines. After an hour, you can hear a "Flam" on almost any two recorders.
Use my spreadsheet if you would like to fiddle with some examples. You can download it if you prefer.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pQGfYwPgBFFzcY5m6aRj-Zbu9HsRumLy-tJB1d8Eufg/edit#gid=583050244
Teams: Neumann, Bay Area Tapers, Multitrack, Pioneertown Tapers, Mac Geeks, Cassette Masters, Poster Collectors, Alumni of teams St Louis, Upper Midwest & Milwaukee / Southern Wisco

Offline jerryfreak

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1925
  • I'm a llama! (taboot)
Re: little Tascam single-channel recorder (DR-10X)
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2019, 09:43:54 PM »
so these clock errors are just a bias and are replicatable?

like if clock a is 2ppm faster than clock b on a given recording, is that pretty consistent from recording to recording

temp appears to have some effect
in:
small: MK4V/41V > CMR > Tinybox or PiP Squeak or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K or R07
smaller: 4061 CORE > d:vice MMA

out:
home:Benchmark DAC1 HGC > Dynaudio BM15A active monitors
shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

Offline morst

  • Archivist: Camper Van Beethoven & Cracker
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3071
  • ISO ALL archival Cracker / CVB / Monks Of Doom etc
    • Soundscape Preservation Society
Re: little Tascam single-channel recorder (DR-10X)
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2019, 03:10:38 PM »
so these clock errors are just a bias and are replicatable?

like if clock a is 2ppm faster than clock b on a given recording, is that pretty consistent from recording to recording

temp appears to have some effect


They are not exact. I can't tell you that my system is perfect, but it gets me close enough. I think temperature does have some effect. When I first developed my spreadsheet and technique for sync, I ran three tests in a row with the same two recorders, and didn't get the exact same results each time. But it gave me a range.


(My initial test was done by creating a file made of a ten-second tone, 1 hour silence, then another ten second tone. I used the one hour silence as the timed test, and delineated it with the tones. I loaded it onto the card of one recorder, then played it back while recording via analog cable to the other machine. Three times.)
Teams: Neumann, Bay Area Tapers, Multitrack, Pioneertown Tapers, Mac Geeks, Cassette Masters, Poster Collectors, Alumni of teams St Louis, Upper Midwest & Milwaukee / Southern Wisco

Offline jerryfreak

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1925
  • I'm a llama! (taboot)
Re: little Tascam single-channel recorder (DR-10X)
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2019, 09:57:31 PM »
I just snagged a DR-10C



this is the version of the DR-10L that Tascam got stopped from selling in US due to Zaxcom's patent suit, apparently because it is designed to daisy chain in between mic and transmitter and record transmitter audio which zaxcom has a US patent on. (I'm guessing the DR-10L and the lectrosonics PDR/SPDR do not have line outputs to go to the next device and thats why they can sell them).

anyway the base device is the DR-10CS which comes with minijack in and out (TRS) which is setup for 2-wire sennheiser lav mics like the MKE. on the right is the adapter kit which replaces the top panel and hot plugs into the board to give you a 4-pin configuration compatible with Shure. the Shure adapter effectively makes it a "DR-10CH" which im not sure is an individual model they sell anymore. It looks like the "L" model avaialbel in the states has the same top cover though im not sure if the adapter plate would fit it (is there a modlar jack inside or is the L hard wired). also looking a tthe manuals the L and S have differnet firmware so im not sure if you could get an "L" to throw out 5V on the extra pin even if the board did attach

anyway this thing is TINY and can throw 2V of bias power and maybe run a dpa 4063. with the 4-pin Shure adapter plate there is a separate pin for +5VDC power which might be able to run a schoeps CMR, or potentially be jumpered over to the input circuit to feed a full 5V to a 4061.

https://tascam.jp/int/product/dr-10c/spec
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 10:06:27 PM by jerryfreak »
in:
small: MK4V/41V > CMR > Tinybox or PiP Squeak or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K or R07
smaller: 4061 CORE > d:vice MMA

out:
home:Benchmark DAC1 HGC > Dynaudio BM15A active monitors
shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.177 seconds with 38 queries.
© 2002-2019 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF