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Offline caitjim

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Talk between songs
« on: December 13, 2018, 11:56:25 AM »
Hi

I'm new to all this and have what might be a stupid question.

Ive just recorded a show and am very pleased with the sound of the music BUT there was a lot of talking from the artist between songs and this has come out quite quiet. Do I -

- Edit each talking bit separately as an individual track to get the volume right?

- Put up with it and turn the vol up when listening to the talk?

Thanks in advance.

PS If anyone can point me in the direction of a Dummies how to process a live music recording I'd be eternally grateful. I used Ocenaudio for mine and was pleased but I'm not sure I used all of its possibilities.




Offline tim in jersey

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2018, 12:15:38 PM »
I track out tunes so that the tunes start at the markers and leave the banter/crowd at the end if ever wanted...

Offline heathen

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2018, 12:17:19 PM »
You could try parallel compression: https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=137594.0
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Offline tim in jersey

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2018, 12:21:41 PM »
Just noticed yer new here, caitjim. Welcome! Friendly bunch here. Check your wallet at the door, and have fun!

Offline beegar

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2018, 01:56:55 PM »
I track out tunes so that the tunes start at the markers and leave the banter/crowd at the end if ever wanted...

Same here. Some make new tracks for banter, but I like to streamline the setlist with only an extraneous intro track for both sets to capture tuning,etc.
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Offline caitjim

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2018, 02:11:18 PM »
Thanks all. I don't like the idea of tracking out the banter as it was fairly integral to the show - explaining history of the songs etc. Parallel compression sounds like an idea. I'll wait to see if anyone else replies. Thanks all for taking the time to reply and Tim in Jersey for the welcome. U r a friendly lot.

Offline Dan33185

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2018, 02:31:40 PM »
It's really up to you, there's no right or wrong way to track banter. I usually leave it at the end of the track and start the next track with the next song. I also amplify the chat a bit as it's usually way lower than the music and can make for a difficult listen.

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2018, 02:56:48 PM »
For me, in most cases, if it's over a minute, talking gets its own track. Sometimes I'll do talking tracks as short as 30 seconds if it really has nothing to do with either song. I make no effort to change volume level for talking parts. People have a knob.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2018, 03:21:40 PM »
I basically do that. 

If the talk is about the following song, I'll place the marker for that song at the beginning of the relevant talk about it (which could be anywhere in the 'tween-song banter after the last song).  If the talk about it goes longer than 15-20 seconds, I place another marker at the start of the song and label the banter about it "intro to song_" forming its own track.  It's a subjective call.  But that way listeners can skip ahead to the music and/or choose not play the "intro to_" tracks at all.

Whether or not I modify loudness depends on how extreme the difference is an how much effort I'm putting into the whole thing.
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Offline caitjim

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2018, 02:25:19 PM »
*** Ive just downloaded Ocenaudio and have split the show into individual tracks of either music or intros and then boosted the volume in the spoken tracks, put everything back together and am very pleased with the outcome.
Is there a really easy splitter to use that can split the long MP3 into individual tracks? Ocenaduio does it but there is probably a simpler means.
Thanks for all your advice.

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2018, 04:02:31 PM »
*** Ive just downloaded Ocenaudio and have split the show into individual tracks of either music or intros and then boosted the volume in the spoken tracks, put everything back together and am very pleased with the outcome.
Is there a really easy splitter to use that can split the long MP3 into individual tracks? Ocenaduio does it but there is probably a simpler means.
Thanks for all your advice.

CD Wave. Technically it cost $15, but you can use it forever for free.

Also...you probably should record in the WAV format if your recorder has that option. The file will be bigger, but it should sound better. If you have the option for 24 bit WAV you can set your levels a little more conservatively to make sure you don't clip the recording. 24 bit has a lower noise floor so when you amplify in post it won't get too noisy.
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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2018, 04:15:22 PM »
*** Ive just downloaded Ocenaudio and have split the show into individual tracks of either music or intros and then boosted the volume in the spoken tracks, put everything back together and am very pleased with the outcome.
Is there a really easy splitter to use that can split the long MP3 into individual tracks? Ocenaduio does it but there is probably a simpler means.
Thanks for all your advice.
You can do that in Audacity. It's free, open source, and cross platform for linux, pc or mac.
https://www.audacityteam.org/download/


I'd import the master file(s), and use the "Envelope" tool to fix levels. (F5). I use "add label" (control-B, or command-B on mac) for each marker, and then export multiple files (of whatever format you need) based on the labels, with leading numbers to keep them in order.


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Offline tim in jersey

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2018, 02:53:32 AM »
I'd import the master file(s), and use the "Envelope" tool to fix levels. (F5). I use "add label" (control-B, or command-B on mac) for each marker, and then export multiple files (of whatever format you need) based on the labels, with leading numbers to keep them in order.

Exactly my workflow.

Offline ilduclo

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2018, 09:42:47 AM »
Envelope is my method, too. Reinstalled cool edit pro on new pc and it won’t store my presets, though...fuck....

Regarding banter, it’s something I’m not real fond of...I do cut it entirely sometimes if too long...or at least make into separate tracks...for instance Shellac always has looooong q&a sessions and/or stories from Steve Albini.....just STFU and play, grampy

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Offline heathen

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2018, 11:05:50 AM »
I use "add label" (control-B, or command-B on mac) for each marker, and then export multiple files (of whatever format you need) based on the labels, with leading numbers to keep them in order.

This blew my mind.  All this time I've been selecting where I want the track break, then selecting everything after that point, cutting it, pasting it, and then aligning with the end of the previous track.  You just saved me several clicks per track  :coolguy:
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Offline caitjim

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2018, 02:33:50 PM »
Thank you all. A lot to think about. Appreciate you taking the time.

Offline caitjim

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2018, 02:37:26 PM »
CD wave looks good but they don't seem to have a Mac version.

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2018, 03:39:02 PM »
I use "add label" (control-B, or command-B on mac) for each marker, and then export multiple files (of whatever format you need) based on the labels, with leading numbers to keep them in order.

This blew my mind.  All this time I've been selecting where I want the track break, then selecting everything after that point, cutting it, pasting it, and then aligning with the end of the previous track.  You just saved me several clicks per track  :coolguy:
I used to do a "SPLIT TRACK at label" which sounds like a simpler workflow for your old style, but Ctrl-B is the simplest. The best thing about not having to split the tracks is that now you have a label track which can be cut and pasted - for instance, from the original mix project to a separate project for tracking! You can make your track points, THEN remix the show and it's simple and fast.
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Offline caitjim

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2018, 02:50:58 PM »
With all your help I think Ive cracked it. I'm going to keep the talkie bits as they're integral to the show. Ive started using Wavepad to split the tracks (much more straight forward than I thought) and will then batch process the talkie bits in Ocenaudio to amplify the talkie bits. Fingers crossed.

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2018, 07:23:03 PM »
With all your help I think Ive cracked it. I'm going to keep the talkie bits as they're integral to the show. Ive started using Wavepad to split the tracks (much more straight forward than I thought) and will then batch process the talkie bits in Ocenaudio to amplify the talkie bits. Fingers crossed.
I've never heard of ocenaudio until this thread, but i'd worry that there would be discontinuities in the sound level at the junctions, unless you do crossfades.
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Offline caitjim

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2018, 11:54:11 AM »
I've tried it on a couple of tracks and they seem to my ears ok. I'll look into cross fades.

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2018, 02:32:00 PM »
I've tried it on a couple of tracks and they seem to my ears ok. I'll look into cross fades.
If you make the transitions during silence, the only thing which will jump up and down is background noise. Otherwise, use cross fades to smooth the difference.
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Offline caitjim

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2018, 02:45:35 PM »
Thankyou morst

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2018, 04:34:00 PM »
You bet.
If you listen in headphones, and it's fine with you, then run with it. If it jumps around, smooth it out.


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and, come to think of it, you can hide a lot of system noise under a healthy layer of audience applause!!
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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2019, 11:32:46 PM »
Any banter more than 60 seconds gets own track.  Most banter less than 60 seconds goes at the end of the song, unless if it is an introduction to the upcoming song. 
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Offline u2_fly_2

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2019, 07:58:12 AM »
Depending on which software you use, this can be done to tweak the sound in between the songs:

- Manually apply + volume db

If the talk between the songs has approx. the same volume then >> apply approx. the + volume db as after the first song and so on >> to the last song is fixed.

- If you recorded both songs+talk in between with comparable low volume, you might do the vice-verse...Increasing the volume of the songs instead...

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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2019, 05:28:56 AM »
i always struggled with making the parts normalized to different volumes sound seamless upon playback. lots of to-the-sample-trimming and crossfading, which was frustrating and time consuming with poor results

im not a video guy so i almost never use Vegas but it made short work of that. check it. links to before and after wavs in description of pics

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2019, 03:50:39 PM »
i always struggled with making the parts normalized to different volumes sound seamless upon playback. lots of to-the-sample-trimming and crossfading, which was frustrating and time consuming with poor results


Why would this occur? Normalize is not something which makes sense to run on individual tracks. Normalization is something usually applied to the entire recording at once, which simply raises the entire recording up in volume level arithmetically, until the single highest peak is at the desired level.
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Offline ilduclo

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2019, 05:14:55 PM »
yes, you are better off using normalization on the entire file. But I do volume adjustments using the envelope tool independent of the normalization some time.

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2019, 04:08:54 AM »
i always struggled with making the parts normalized to different volumes sound seamless upon playback. lots of to-the-sample-trimming and crossfading, which was frustrating and time consuming with poor results


Why would this occur?
electric tracks + acoustic tracks+banter+loud applause all treated differently
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Offline ilduclo

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Re: Talk between songs
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2019, 09:25:23 AM »
^ envelope can fix ALL of those issues, if properly applied. Takes practice and a lighter touch. Save copy files early and often.

 

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