Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: 4K video advice  (Read 2236 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jefflester

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 929
  • Gender: Male
4K video advice
« on: December 14, 2018, 06:40:16 PM »
I'm looking for a recommendation for a 4K camera/camcorder to shoot my own band performances. I've been using a Canon HF20 at 1080p, a Zoom Q2n placed close up, and I also have an older GoPro 3+ and a GoPro knock off that I'm going to try for some guitar closeups. But I'd like one cam set in audience that pretty much captures full band but then will allow post-production zooms without getting too grainy. Audio synced in post-production.

Camcorder wise I've been checking out Sony AX100 (probably more than I want to spend), AX33, AX53. Panasonic VX981 is more around the price I'm interested in ($500-$800). Some reviews of VX981 mention not so good in low light. Most times I would be using in club/party situation where there is only stage lighting.

Camera would be unattended for up to 2 hours running off an external battery or AC. What is the state of point and shoot and DSLR type cameras that have 30 minute max video recording length. Is that still a thing?

Here's an example. The full band shot is the Canon and the closeup of the lead guitar are the Zoom Q2n.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAOyTe9X2JA
DPA4061 HEB/AT943 -> CA-UGLY -> R-09
Samson C02/Superlux S502/iSK Little Gem -> DR-680MKII
AKG CK63 -> AKG C460B -> DR-680MKII
AKG CK63 -> nBob actives -> Baby NBox -> R-09/DR2d

Offline beatkilla

  • Trade Count: (55)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1687
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4K video advice
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2018, 08:42:27 PM »
I have the Sony ax100 and it's an amazing video cam....you can't go wrong with it and has all the manual features needed.I have a 256gb card installed and i think that gets me around 4 .5 hours of 100mbps 4k 30p.


Although im not a fan of trying to crop,zoom in post production.I would highly suggest finding an experienced video shooter if you can.







Offline mountaintaper

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 300
Re: 4K video advice
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2018, 01:42:03 AM »
I also have the AX100 and love it.

Offline MicheleVR5

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • I'm a llama!
Re: 4K video advice
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2018, 12:25:47 AM »
I just got the step down from that model, the Sony FDR-AX53, and I'm happy with it. Only been to a few shows though, haven't been to an extremely low light show yet with it.

Offline MicheleVR5

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • I'm a llama!
Re: 4K video advice
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2019, 03:13:33 PM »
I'm having to deal with HDMI output quirks with my FDR-AX53. Likely not applicable if you're just shooting video and using the built in monitor or viewfinder, but wanted to note it here.
No 4K HDMI output
general output display issues

Offline hoppedup

  • Trade Count: (17)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3118
  • Sa da tay!
Re: 4K video advice
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2019, 08:50:41 AM »
I just got a Panasonic Lumic DMC-G7K (~$500 with 14-42mm lens) and an extra lens (~$150 45-150mm) and shot my first show in 4K Friday night. Found a work-around for the 29m59s video. I put in a 128gb card and it showed 2h45m IIRC. I shot for an hour and a half with no overheating issues. I ran an 1/8" cable from the headphone out of a DR-60D and it was noisy as hell (maybe the cable, maybe the unit?) so I ended up syncing my audio from the SBD and akg391 mix. 4K chews through data.

https://youtu.be/ggelLvkgGDk
AKG SE300B CK91
CA-14 omnis
JB Mod NAK 300 CP1 - CP2
SKM 184
CA 9200
SD MixPre-6M, Tascam DR-40, Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-70D, Tascam DR-22WL, Marantz PMD-706
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G7K

↑↑↓↓←→←→ BA Start
         


My recordings on bt.etree
  
My recordings on LMA

Offline 2manyrocks

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1662
Re: 4K video advice
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2019, 02:05:08 PM »
I'd be suspicious of the cable first.  If not the cable, then take a look at how much signal you are outputting from the 60d to your camera.  If you send a low signal from the 60d and then raise the gain in the camera, that can make it noisy.

As I understand it, the just about to be released Sony A6400 does not have the 29 minute time limit.  If it can be powered by an external usb battery and doesn't overheat, then it might be a contender for recording 2 hour concerts?  You'd need to verify that it can be powered by external usb or AC and still record.  I don't know about the powering, but did hear it mentioned that it doesn't have the 29 minute limit that seems to have become the norm in most of the other recent camera releases. 

To get it closer to the OP's budget, the OP might just get the body only and use an older manual focus lens via an adapter on the A6400.   A guy I know bought a video camera that hunts focus A LOT in AF.  Manual focus can be your friend when shooting video from a fixed position on a tripod.  There are many good manual focus lens to be had inexpensively. 
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 02:15:25 PM by 2manyrocks »

Offline hoppedup

  • Trade Count: (17)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3118
  • Sa da tay!
Re: 4K video advice
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2019, 04:11:37 PM »
^I had the headphone output next to 0 on the 60D. I just got the camera that day and didn't have time to read up on setting the gain on the camera. I imagine it was set pretty high as it was showing clipping on the camera if I turned up the output on the 60D to 1. I'm going to practice a bit before the next show. It can be run on external USB power with an adapter cable.

The workaround on the video length problem was a button pushing, off/on cycle that was easy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUYxZmRt0KU

My Sony A3000 would overheat before the time limit, even with battery door open. I've read that the overheating issue is not as serious a concern with micro 4/3 lenses.

Here is an example of a video I shot in the same venue, from the same position with a cheapo Canon Vixia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh_JfGVy_Tg for comparison purposes
AKG SE300B CK91
CA-14 omnis
JB Mod NAK 300 CP1 - CP2
SKM 184
CA 9200
SD MixPre-6M, Tascam DR-40, Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-70D, Tascam DR-22WL, Marantz PMD-706
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G7K

↑↑↓↓←→←→ BA Start
         


My recordings on bt.etree
  
My recordings on LMA

Offline 2manyrocks

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1662
Re: 4K video advice
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2019, 04:42:01 PM »
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=170743.msg2142975#msg2142975--Will said he set his 60d output around 5/6 and his video camera around 35.  I think I had my 60d output around 8.  You'll want to experiment a bit to see how much output from the 60d versus how much gain on your camera.  That should help. 

The neat thing about the 60d is there's a separate gain control for the output to a camera and another gain control for the headphone output.  I really think it is underrated for how useful it is with these physical controls compared to some of the other recorders.   I think there's a way to use the slate tone to set the levels, but I suggest looking at the manual on that. 

I'm forgetting what he said, but one of the guys who reviewed the A6400 said there was something different about it to deal with the overheating issue. 

edit:  In this video, the reviewer thinks the newer processor in the A6400 will solve the overheating issue of prior models.  Incidentally, he got 1:38 hour of video recording time before the battery died, and didn't experience any overheating.   It's roughly 14-15 minutes into his video when the battery finally dies.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBK1jHwdfRg

m/43 caught on because the smaller m4/3 sensor didn't heat up was much as an aps-c size sensor, didn't have the 29 minute recording limit, and was affordable back in the day.   For example, the g6 didn't have the 29 minute limit.  Then they started putting the limit on the lower priced cameras, and kept raising the prices on the ones that didn't have the limit, or at least that's the impression I have. 

If the A6400 doesn't overheat with its aps-c size sensor and if it can record for a long time using external power, then that would be a bit of a technological breakthrough and put pressure on the sales of m4/3 sensor cameras.   
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 05:07:57 PM by 2manyrocks »

Offline hoppedup

  • Trade Count: (17)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3118
  • Sa da tay!
Re: 4K video advice
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2019, 05:05:49 PM »

m/43 caught on because the smaller m4/3 sensor didn't heat up was much as an aps-c size sensor, didn't have the 29 minute recording limit, and was affordable back in the day.   For example, the g6 didn't have the 29 minute limit.  Then they started putting the limit on the lower priced cameras, and kept raising the prices on the ones that didn't have the limit, or at least that's the impression I have.   

From what I've read, the 30 minute limit is to avoid being classified as a video camera, which has a higher import tariff in Europe.
AKG SE300B CK91
CA-14 omnis
JB Mod NAK 300 CP1 - CP2
SKM 184
CA 9200
SD MixPre-6M, Tascam DR-40, Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-70D, Tascam DR-22WL, Marantz PMD-706
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G7K

↑↑↓↓←→←→ BA Start
         


My recordings on bt.etree
  
My recordings on LMA

Offline 2manyrocks

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1662
Re: 4K video advice
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2019, 05:12:09 PM »
That's true.  While I don't know all the reasons for it, I suspect camera makers want us to buy their more expensive cameras and putting the 29 minute limit on the cheaper ones helps them sell the more expensive cameras. 

Offline willndmb

  • Trade Count: (17)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6704
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4K video advice
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2019, 07:17:49 PM »
^I had the headphone output next to 0 on the 60D. I just got the camera that day and didn't have time to read up on setting the gain on the camera. I imagine it was set pretty high as it was showing clipping on the camera if I turned up the output on the 60D to 1. I'm going to practice a bit before the next show. It can be run on external USB power with an adapter cable.

The workaround on the video length problem was a button pushing, off/on cycle that was easy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUYxZmRt0KU

My Sony A3000 would overheat before the time limit, even with battery door open. I've read that the overheating issue is not as serious a concern with micro 4/3 lenses.

Here is an example of a video I shot in the same venue, from the same position with a cheapo Canon Vixia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh_JfGVy_Tg for comparison purposes
you should be using the camera out and not headphone

Def turn the camera input wayyyyy down and use the 60d more
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 07:19:50 PM by willndmb »
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline jefflester

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 929
  • Gender: Male
DPA4061 HEB/AT943 -> CA-UGLY -> R-09
Samson C02/Superlux S502/iSK Little Gem -> DR-680MKII
AKG CK63 -> AKG C460B -> DR-680MKII
AKG CK63 -> nBob actives -> Baby NBox -> R-09/DR2d

Offline hoppedup

  • Trade Count: (17)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3118
  • Sa da tay!
Re: 4K video advice
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2019, 10:30:30 AM »
AKG SE300B CK91
CA-14 omnis
JB Mod NAK 300 CP1 - CP2
SKM 184
CA 9200
SD MixPre-6M, Tascam DR-40, Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-70D, Tascam DR-22WL, Marantz PMD-706
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G7K

↑↑↓↓←→←→ BA Start
         


My recordings on bt.etree
  
My recordings on LMA

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.219 seconds with 41 queries.
© 2002-2019 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF