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Offline TheMetalist

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I need some advice from open tapers...
« on: January 07, 2019, 02:04:55 PM »
I usually stealth. That's actually the only option recording concerts here in Sweden. We don't have the same culture and history with open taping as in the US. The thing is that I'm going to a huge festival this summer that actually allows recording and filming shows. I really like the idea of being more relaxed without the need of being a human microphone stand. Well, here's my concern:

1. No stands are allowed. Not even selfie sticks.
2. No dedicated space for tapers are available.
3. No seats are available.
4. I doubt I will be able to attach the mics to anything at the festival area. Not 100% sure, but that would be a challange in itself.

So, what can I do to avoid having my gear attached to my body. Scissors chairs and camping chairs are allowed though but I'm not really enjoyed by the thought of recording behind everyones back.

Any bright ideas for a open taping newbie or is it an impossible mission?

 :banging head:
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Offline Sebastian

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2019, 02:17:41 PM »
Open taping festival in Europe? That sounds interesting. Which one is it?

As for your question, you could get a boom pole that is standing on the ground while you're holding it with your hand. Does the FoH area have a barricade? You could use a superclamp to clamp an extension pole (like the Manfrotto 099b) to it.
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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2019, 02:27:04 PM »
Open taping festival in Europe? That sounds interesting. Which one is it?

As for your question, you could get a boom pole that is standing on the ground while you're holding it with your hand. Does the FoH area have a barricade? You could use a superclamp to clamp an extension pole (like the Manfrotto 099b) to it.

This is a good idea; however, use a damn good shock mount. What kind of mics will you be running?
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Offline TheMetalist

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2019, 02:35:49 PM »
Open taping festival in Europe? That sounds interesting. Which one is it?

It's Sweden Rock Festival. They have allowed recordings for a couple of years now. Unfortunately they don't make it easy for us.

What kind of mics will you be running?

I will use Schoeps MK41Vs with active cables.
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Offline TheMetalist

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2019, 03:01:05 PM »
You could use a superclamp to clamp an extension pole (like the Manfrotto 099b) to it.

Nice idea but they won't allow an extension pole like that. I'm actually pretty sure they would say it's a stand and not allowed. It could also be used as a weapon.
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Offline jeenash

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2019, 03:30:03 PM »
Perhaps a modified pair of crutches?

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2019, 03:49:49 PM »
I looked at some photos. That's going to be a tough nut to crack.

Perhaps have the mics mounted to a bar, then use a belt to try to strap them to one of the poles of the soundboard cover structure? If they would let you get away with it.
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Offline TheMetalist

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2019, 03:55:53 PM »
I'm thinking. Is this a ridicilous idea? At least one stage has speakers directed to the left (and right of course). This was my positition taping (stealth) last year. Perhaps I can clamp my mics onto a gorillapod or something and hang it on the fence around the area. Last year it was at least two meters high. Not sure what the guards at the back of the fence would think though.  ???

Sorry for the ugly pic I did in Photoshop.  :lol:



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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2019, 03:59:45 PM »
^ That could actually work well as long as the sound is good there, and is probably your best bet.


Other ideas to get the mics in the sweet spot.

Walking cane.
Repurpose as hand-held mono-pod once inside.

Umbrellas allowed?
Do the same without popping it open.

Longshot-
Mascot manekin allowed?
Set one up as a stand-in stealther.. with or without a cane/umbrella.
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Offline TheMetalist

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2019, 04:00:28 PM »
Perhaps a modified pair of crutches?

I think I can get a stand into the area. The problem is that I won't be able to use it. Guards everywhere.


Perhaps have the mics mounted to a bar, then use a belt to try to strap them to one of the poles of the soundboard cover structure? If they would let you get away with it.

I've been considering that and I really enjoy that idea. Would be a bit nervous someone would mess with my Schoeps though...
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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2019, 04:05:26 PM »
Perhaps a modified pair of crutches?

I think I can get a stand into the area. The problem is that I won't be able to use it. Guards everywhere.


Perhaps have the mics mounted to a bar, then use a belt to try to strap them to one of the poles of the soundboard cover structure? If they would let you get away with it.

I've been considering that and I really enjoy that idea. Would be a bit nervous someone would mess with my Schoeps though...

I dunno.....if you get them high enough.......https://www.highshot.se/sweden-rock-festival/
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Offline TheMetalist

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2019, 04:07:19 PM »
^ That could actually work well as long as the sound is good there, and is probably your best bet.


Other ideas to get the mics in the sweet spot.

Walking cane.
Repurpose as hand-held mono-pod once inside.

Umbrellas allowed?
Do the same without popping it open.

Longshot-
Mascot manekin allowed?
Set one up as a stand-in stealther.. with or without a cane/umbrella.

Crazy ideas but not completely impossible I guess.  :lol:

I will read more about their rules tomorrow.
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Offline Twenty8

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2019, 04:09:14 PM »
See if you can get a media pass?

Offline TheMetalist

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2019, 04:16:30 PM »
Main stage. This is the direction of the "side stacks" and the fence I'm thinking about.

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Offline TheMetalist

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2019, 04:20:30 PM »
I dunno.....if you get them high enough.......https://www.highshot.se/sweden-rock-festival/

Yeah, maybe. :)


See if you can get a media pass?

Not sure if photographers are allowed to bring stands. Will check that out tomorrow as well. I also believe they are restricted to the photo pit for only three songs each show.
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Offline Gil

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2019, 04:21:12 PM »
I have nothing to add (sorry!), but how in the name of Satan is Ghost not playing The Sweden Rock Festival? ;D
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2019, 04:25:12 PM »
Main stage. This is the direction of the "side stacks" and the fence I'm thinking about.

As long as it sounds good there, that's probably the easiest to pull off.

Upon looking at the other photos its apparent there aren't other well suited structures to which you can clamp unless you are able to clamp to one of the SBD cage uprights.

If you are daring and up for the challenge you might be able to clamp to the front rail in front of the stage but that will be harder to get to and will require active blocking.  Also, looking at the only photo showing a closer view of the front of stage area I don't see center fill speakers facing the crowd, so that option is probably out on sonic grounds.  I do see side-fills at the edge of the stage down at stage level facing into the audience and if those are high enough in level to balance against the subwoofer SPLs up front you might be able to position a front rail clamp directly on-axis with one of them.  That can actually work very nicely but it's a crap-shoot unless you know it sounds balanced directly in front of those fills.
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Offline seethreepo

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2019, 08:09:32 PM »
As someone who had done mostly stealth I’ll really question the benefit of open taping without a stand apart from not having to sneak gear in. The picture you posted would definitely be a worse position than you could achieve wearing mics.  If you cant get a board patch or clamp to FOH  wear em or take a night off.
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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2019, 11:31:16 PM »
Just go FOB in the sweet spot and use your stealth hat. Bring friends and take turns being the microphone stand.
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Offline aaronji

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2019, 08:56:47 AM »
I usually stealth. That's actually the only option recording concerts here in Sweden. We don't have the same culture and history with open taping as in the US.

Out of curiosity, have you ever tried?  There is no taping culture to speak of here in the Netherlands, either, but I have done quite a lot of open recording at this point.  I have taped at venues all over the country and a bunch in Belgium, too.  I know a couple of other open tapers here and I know several (in addition to Sebastian) in Germany as well.  It does require some effort arranging things, of course, but I would be surprised if you couldn't work it out at least some of the time.

Offline goodcooker

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2019, 10:46:53 AM »
I usually stealth. That's actually the only option recording concerts here in Sweden. We don't have the same culture and history with open taping as in the US.

Out of curiosity, have you ever tried?  There is no taping culture to speak of here in the Netherlands, either, but I have done quite a lot of open recording at this point.  I have taped at venues all over the country and a bunch in Belgium, too.  I know a couple of other open tapers here and I know several (in addition to Sebastian) in Germany as well.  It does require some effort arranging things, of course, but I would be surprised if you couldn't work it out at least some of the time.

This brings up a good point. If you don't ask you can't be told yes or no. I've gotten answers I didn't expect about permissions just because I asked and made a diplomatic case. I would contact the organizers and let them know what you plan to do - who knows maybe they give you a media pass and all problems are solved.

If that doesn't work - I've used a small pocket sized clamp and flexible arm camera mount to put my gear in a space that a stand wouldn't work. It was cheap and worked just fine. Similar to a gorilla pod.

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Offline TheMetalist

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2019, 10:58:35 AM »

Bring friends and take turns being the microphone stand.

My friends hates my hobby. They find it disturbing.


Out of curiosity, have you ever tried?

Actually, only a few times when I know the musicians personally. Everyone I know (or have met) just doesn't get the "taper thing". It feels kind of awkward to ask bands and venues. Maybe I should man up and just do it.


I've used a small pocket sized clamp and flexible arm camera mount to put my gear in a space that a stand wouldn't work. It was cheap and worked just fine. Similar to a gorilla pod.

Great idea. Thanks.
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Offline TheMetalist

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2019, 10:59:36 AM »
Thanks to everyone who in one way or another replied to my posts. Love this place.

 :cheers:
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2019, 11:11:09 AM »
I usually stealth. That's actually the only option recording concerts here in Sweden. We don't have the same culture and history with open taping as in the US. The thing is that I'm going to a huge festival this summer that actually allows recording and filming shows. I really like the idea of being more relaxed without the need of being a human microphone stand. Well, here's my concern:

1. No stands are allowed. Not even selfie sticks.
2. No dedicated space for tapers are available.
3. No seats are available.
4. I doubt I will be able to attach the mics to anything at the festival area. Not 100% sure, but that would be a challange in itself.

So, what can I do to avoid having my gear attached to my body. Scissors chairs and camping chairs are allowed though but I'm not really enjoyed by the thought of recording behind everyones back.

Any bright ideas for a open taping newbie or is it an impossible mission?

 :banging head:

Those conditions are so limited that your only good option is to stealth it would seem. At least you won't have to worry about getting popped, it seems.

Or try chatting up the foh and maybe offer some libations, bet he/she will let you clamp. Good libations. 😀
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 11:14:08 AM by MakersMarc »
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Offline kindms

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2019, 11:53:15 AM »
if you are running actives you might want to look at 15mm camera rails. I use them to make a 4ft split omni bar that breaks down to fit in my bag

I have 4 x 1foot sections and they screw together. They are about the same size as the poles camping chairs use. If you could get something  like that in you could easily use it to make a stand

www.smallrig.com is where i got mine. They come in all different sizes.

The bars are solid i just wouldnt run to many pairs or LDs on them
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Offline aaronji

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2019, 06:51:20 AM »
Actually, only a few times when I know the musicians personally. Everyone I know (or have met) just doesn't get the "taper thing". It feels kind of awkward to ask bands and venues. Maybe I should man up and just do it.

It's a bit of a pain in the ass, to be honest, but I think it is worth the effort.  Start by contacting the artist (preferably) or their management well in advance of the show.  If you don't get a reply in a week or two, re-send your mail with a "sorry to bother you again, but perhaps you didn't see my earlier mail (attached below)" note.  Once you receive a green light from the artist, contact the venue.  They are usually pretty accommodating when they see you have permission from the artist in writing.  I have had better luck with the production or programming people at the venues than with the general information e-mail.  Definitely try to avoid the marketing guys!

When it goes smoothly, it takes two or three e-mails to get it sorted.  Sometimes, though, it takes dozens.  A major advantage of doing this is that you establish relationships with both artists and venues, making subsequent attempts much easier.  There are even some perks on occasion, like being allowed onto a closed balcony to set up or a guest list spot.

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2019, 07:17:50 AM »
It's a bit of a pain in the ass, to be honest, but I think it is worth the effort.  Start by contacting the artist (preferably) or their management well in advance of the show.  If you don't get a reply in a week or two, re-send your mail with a "sorry to bother you again, but perhaps you didn't see my earlier mail (attached below)" note.  Once you receive a green light from the artist, contact the venue.  They are usually pretty accommodating when they see you have permission from the artist in writing.  I have had better luck with the production or programming people at the venues than with the general information e-mail.  Definitely try to avoid the marketing guys!

^ This!

Forget about just showing up to a show of a presumably taper-friendly artist with your rig in your hands, expecting that they'll let you roll. In Europe, this won't work 80% of the time. In the other 20% you'll have to deal with local venue staff who couldn't care less about you recording or local tour managers who will see you as some kind of threat to the artist's intellectual property rights (the worst!).

Instead, try to establish a connection with the band through their management. Make sure to mention that you're doing this for your own private, non-commercial purposes. Also let them know what you are planning to bring (e.g. "two microphones on a mic stand"). When you get the green light, involve the venue and/or the company that organizes the tour. Bring print-outs of all confirmation e-mails (especially from the band's management) or of the band's taping policy (if they have a published one). When you arrive at the venue, tell venue staff that you are carrying recording equipment and that you have permission from the band's management to record the show. Show them the print-outs. Usually, they will redirect you to a person higher up in the chain of command who will be able to accomodate you. I have had only good experiences by clearing taping in advance. In the few cases in which I don't receive a reply from the band's management, I usually just stealth.
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Offline swordfish

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2019, 07:24:53 AM »
It's a bit of a pain in the ass, to be honest, but I think it is worth the effort.  Start by contacting the artist (preferably) or their management well in advance of the show.  If you don't get a reply in a week or two, re-send your mail with a "sorry to bother you again, but perhaps you didn't see my earlier mail (attached below)" note.  Once you receive a green light from the artist, contact the venue.  They are usually pretty accommodating when they see you have permission from the artist in writing.  I have had better luck with the production or programming people at the venues than with the general information e-mail.  Definitely try to avoid the marketing guys!

^ This!

Forget about just showing up to a show of a presumably taper-friendly artist with your rig in your hands, expecting that they'll let you roll. In Europe, this won't work 80% of the time. In the other 20% you'll have to deal with local venue staff who couldn't care less about you recording or local tour managers who will see you as some kind of threat to the artist's intellectual property rights (the worst!).

Instead, try to establish a connection with the band through their management. Make sure to mention that you're doing this for your own private, non-commercial purposes. Also let them know what you are planning to bring (e.g. "two microphones on a mic stand"). When you get the green light, involve the venue and/or the company that organizes the tour. Bring print-outs of all confirmation e-mails (especially from the band's management) or of the band's taping policy (if they have a published one). When you arrive at the venue, tell venue staff that you are carrying recording equipment and that you have permission from the band's management to record the show. Show them the print-outs. Usually, they will redirect you to a person higher up in the chain of command who will be able to accomodate you. I have had only good experiences by clearing taping in advance. In the few cases in which I don't receive a reply from the band's management, I usually just stealth.

^ +1

Offline splumer

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #28 on: Yesterday at 11:00:00 AM »
Just go FOB in the sweet spot and use your stealth hat. Bring friends and take turns being the microphone stand.

That's what I was going to suggest. If your friends don't "get" taping, just ask them to hold it just while you go to the bathroom, get a drink, etc. In other words, you'll be holding it for 99 percent of the time. Without clamping to something, I don't see any other way.
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Offline TheMetalist

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #29 on: Yesterday at 11:56:33 AM »
I will contact some of the bands that I suppose can allow me taping their shows. If I get an ok from them I will then contact the festival. If I get a media pass I'm allowed to bring a stand. If this doesn't work I'll do as recommended, stealth. Even if my feet and back will hurt. I'll just record the bands I'm really interested in then...

Thank you all!
It's not about fancy equipment. It's about the thrill, passion and hard work. Liberate the music!

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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #30 on: Yesterday at 09:30:01 PM »
It's  gotta be something great for me to stealth standing for hours. Not even sure I can do it now. Better be worth it.
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Offline daspyknows

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #31 on: Yesterday at 11:56:42 PM »
Standing for 8 hours at festivals is hard.  My legs and back are hating it by the 3rd day  but if I want to record from the sweet spot I will do it.

Offline TheMetalist

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Re: I need some advice from open tapers...
« Reply #32 on: Today at 02:28:37 PM »
It's  gotta be something great for me to stealth standing for hours. Not even sure I can do it now. Better be worth it.

Standing for 8 hours at festivals is hard.  My legs and back are hating it by the 3rd day  but if I want to record from the sweet spot I will do it.

This has actually become a huge problem for me these says. I can tape a show or two each night but my back and feet really hurts after that. Tried different shoes. Tried to move around between the bands. It doesn't help. This is very unfortunate as a stealth taper.
It's not about fancy equipment. It's about the thrill, passion and hard work. Liberate the music!

"The music is your passport - Your magic key - To all the madness that awaits you." B.L. '86

 

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