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Author Topic: Mid-Side Post Processing Workflow  (Read 905 times)

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Offline vantheman

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Mid-Side Post Processing Workflow
« on: February 03, 2019, 01:34:42 PM »
I’m a new taper playing around with the Shure MV88 and my iPhone. I’ve been pretty happy with the results so far. But I wonder if anyone can help me hone my post production workflow. I mostly use Audacity.

For now I’ve been using the envelope tool on the raw two channel recording to tame audience noise and odd peaks, before processing the single side track into two track stereo. Then I’ll mix to stereo, and this is when I’ll use all the other tools like compression, filters, normalization, etc.

Am I doing this wrong? What’s your mid side post processing workflow?

Offline EmRR

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Re: Mid-Side Post Processing Workflow
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2019, 02:01:39 PM »
I would consider working on the processed stereo file first, with the processing on a stereo aux or master mix bus.  Processing the M and S separately can be useful for fixing particular problems, but if overdone can make the stereo image shift around, so if the stereo processing approach isn't cutting it for all problems, then go back selectively to the mono files, that way it's minimal.  Of course you may be essentially doing exactly what I describe.  I'm not sure what tools are available in Audacity, the program I use has a mid side specific dynamic EQ that also allows for a HPF to be used on the side, so I am hearing it in stereo as I do it.  If you aren't monitoring the mono changes in stereo, maybe consider setting up routing so you can at least do that. 
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Offline vantheman

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Re: Mid-Side Post Processing Workflow
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2019, 02:11:18 PM »
Thanks, I have definitely noticed the stereo shifting you described and I try to eliminate that. What software do you use for mid side? Sounds promising.

Offline EmRR

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Re: Mid-Side Post Processing Workflow
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2019, 02:47:17 PM »
I use Digital Performer, it's got some built in tools for that.  I'm sure there are probably some other freeware or inexpensive plug-ins if Audacity doesn't have anything included.  You can always cobble together mono tools on the mono tracks, as I think more about this I'd say monitoring changes in stereo is probably the most important thing. 
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Offline morst

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Re: Mid-Side Post Processing Workflow
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2019, 03:38:40 PM »
.  Processing the M and S separately can be useful for fixing particular problems, but if overdone can make the stereo image shift around
What do you mean "shift around?" Like get wider & narrower? Or shift left-right? I would not guess that working on the mono tracks would affect left-right balance much. But I have not done much M/S mixing, so I could be way off base here?
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Offline EmRR

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Re: Mid-Side Post Processing Workflow
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2019, 04:22:06 PM »
Wider / Narrower, with extreme situations making everything from center to outside undergo a smeary shift.  The two mono elements interact completely.   
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Offline noahbickart

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Re: Mid-Side Post Processing Workflow
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2019, 08:46:28 AM »
I would definitely do any M/S and L/R processing as the first step in DSP. Once you get those basic parameters set, that's when I'd do any noise removal, volume enveloping, dynamic range processing or EQ.
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Offline vantheman

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Re: Mid-Side Post Processing Workflow
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2019, 02:19:54 PM »
Thanks guys, separate but related question. Can I flip my MV88 upside down, thereby reversing channels, and then invert the opposite channel than you normally would? The mic swivels down 90 degrees, which isn’t ideal for me. I need to be able to swivel it up some amount of degrees to point it toward the stacks.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Mid-Side Post Processing Workflow
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2019, 08:47:30 AM »
Can I flip my MV88 upside down, thereby reversing channels, and then invert the opposite channel than you normally would? The mic swivels down 90 degrees, which isn’t ideal for me. I need to be able to swivel it up some amount of degrees to point it toward the stacks.

Yes.  Three choices to do so.
1) Record as you usually do and don't worry about a mirror image flipped output. Recorded right will be heard as left on playback and vice-versa.
2) Do the same but swap the channels afterwards in your editing software to correct the flip.
3) Record Mid/Side instead of Left/Right.  Afterwards in your editor, first invert polarity of the Side channel.  Then convert to L/R as you usually would.
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Offline vantheman

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Re: Mid-Side Post Processing Workflow
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2019, 02:27:56 PM »
Can I flip my MV88 upside down, thereby reversing channels, and then invert the opposite channel than you normally would? The mic swivels down 90 degrees, which isn’t ideal for me. I need to be able to swivel it up some amount of degrees to point it toward the stacks.

Yes.  Three choices to do so.
1) Record as you usually do and don't worry about a mirror image flipped output. Recorded right will be heard as left on playback and vice-versa.
2) Do the same but swap the channels afterwards in your editing software to correct the flip.
3) Record Mid/Side instead of Left/Right.  Afterwards in your editor, first invert polarity of the Side channel.  Then convert to L/R as you usually would.

Thanks a lot. I think I will always be recording in raw mid side with this mic to maintain flexibility in the stereo image.

Offline kindms

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Re: Mid-Side Post Processing Workflow
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2019, 02:38:38 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVOBRx7zGzw

i use this video all the time as a reminder when i forget what im doing
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