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Author Topic: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10  (Read 2285 times)

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Offline H₂O

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« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 01:16:14 PM by H₂O »
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Offline H₂O

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2019, 01:18:44 PM »
Looks to use the same technic as the Sonosax R4+ to achive high S/N ratio:


"Using two AD converters, we always ensure a 12 dB lower signal apart from the usual audio circuit. If you suddenly input a loud sound such as a clap while playing, it will go back to that point and replace the recorded data and automatically set it to the optimum level to prevent distortion of the sound."

So looks like the US version will have to be nuetered a bit to get around the Zaxcom's Troll patent.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 01:22:19 PM by H₂O »
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Offline Sebastian

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2019, 01:28:43 PM »
That thing looks huge.
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Offline ideal77dlr

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2019, 01:39:10 PM »
Why do this but not an upgrade of the M-10?
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Offline gewwang

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2019, 02:46:07 PM »
This is better in one huge aspect than the m-10 and a-10 - XLR ins with 48V phantom power.

Offline adrianb

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2019, 03:19:26 PM »
This is better in one huge aspect than the m-10 and a-10 - XLR ins with 48V phantom power.

And knowing Sony products I bet it's got miles better battery life than any other portable recorder with XLR inputs.

I have the Sony XLR-1 Phantom Power unit and have achieved recording times of more than 32 hours on 4 x AA batteries.

Will it be worth buying when I already have the Sony PCM-D100 and the XLR-1? I look forward to reading some reviews.

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2019, 04:33:57 PM »
So basically they've split the M10 into two lines: the A10 which is more compact at the cost of a separate Line In, and the D10 which is bigger and adds XLRs? That can work.

Offline ycoop

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2019, 04:41:56 PM »
Looks to be what the DR-40 aspires to be.
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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2019, 05:18:37 PM »
This is better in one huge aspect than the m-10 and a-10 - XLR ins with 48V phantom power.

And knowing Sony products I bet it's got miles better battery life than any other portable recorder with XLR inputs.

I have the Sony XLR-1 Phantom Power unit and have achieved recording times of more than 32 hours on 4 x AA batteries.

Will it be worth buying when I already have the Sony PCM-D100 and the XLR-1? I look forward to reading some reviews.

Quote
BATTERY LIFE FOR RECORDING LPCM 192KHZ, 24BIT
Approx 32 Hrs
BATTERY LIFE FOR RECORDING LPCM 96KHZ, 24BIT
Approx 36 Hrs
BATTERY LIFE FOR RECORDING LPCM 48KHZ, 24BIT
Approx 44 Hrs
BATTERY LIFE FOR RECORDING LPCM 44.1KHZ, 16BIT
Approx 44 Hrs
BATTERY LIFE FOR RECORDING MP3 320KBPS
Approx 44 Hrs

On 4x AA. Amazing even if they are half that in the field.
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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2019, 05:22:05 PM »
I like the it!!  Might have to grab one for a light 2 channel rig. 
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Offline Sevoflurane

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2019, 05:31:22 PM »
We all have gripes. But I wish that Sony would have a multi-track recorder like the Tascam DR2D.

This thing looks like a tank. I wonder how well the iOS app works for these things.

Offline dogmusic

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2019, 05:31:49 PM »
What was the last Sony portable recorder with xlr inputs? The TCD5M? Or was there a DAT portable that had them?

I like this D10 very much. If the preamps are real quiet, I might sell my MP6 since I hardly ever use 4 tracks.
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Offline gewwang

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2019, 05:34:46 PM »
New link:

https://pro.sony/en_AU/products/portable-digital-recorders/pcm-d10


And before we go any further, in the attached pic, there it is... the HOLD button...

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Offline vialenco

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2019, 06:33:57 PM »
New link:

https://pro.sony/en_AU/products/portable-digital-recorders/pcm-d10


They still list the M10!

https://pro.sony/en_AU/products/portable-digital-recorders/pcm-m10

That is odd as that section of the website doesn't even list the PCM-D100.

Here the only current models are the PCM-D100 and new PCM-D10

https://pro.sony/en_SI/products/portable-digital-recorders


I like Sony and they certainly have the resources and knowledge to pull off something that's great, having your own semiconductor prefab etc is a biggie. Things like Tascam are pretty much made with a bunch of off the shelf parts.

Any way I really like the look of this new recorder, coincidentally it uses the same DAC as the Tascam DR-100 mkIII
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 06:40:21 PM by vialenco »

Offline dogmusic

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2019, 06:47:30 PM »
Quote from: vialenco link=topic=189206.msg2287525#msg2287525 date=
coincidentally it uses the same DAC as the Tascam DR-100 mkIII

— which is actually a very good recorder.
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Offline gormenghast

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2019, 07:52:41 PM »
What was the last Sony portable recorder with xlr inputs? The TCD5M? Or was there a DAT portable that had them?

I like this D10 very much. If the preamps are real quiet, I might sell my MP6 since I hardly ever use 4 tracks.

Sony D10 ProII  :coolguy:



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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2019, 07:57:33 PM »
Looks pretty interesting, esp. that battery life!
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2019, 08:17:01 PM »
What was the last Sony portable recorder with xlr inputs? The TCD5M? Or was there a DAT portable that had them?

I like this D10 very much. If the preamps are real quiet, I might sell my MP6 since I hardly ever use 4 tracks.

DC10 Pro I think, looooong time ago
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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2019, 11:11:54 AM »
M10 is not in stock. 

Offline voltronic

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2019, 09:50:43 PM »
I could have cared less about the D100 or A10, but this one has me interested.

I'll be curious to see what the price is going to be once it makes it to North America.  Judging by the very high price they charge for the D100, I'm bracing myself.
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Offline H₂O

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2019, 10:02:54 PM »
Since the Japanese ebay seller has $688 listed (the Japanese sellers are typically at least 25-30% more then US list) I'd bet list will be $499
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Offline Niels

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2019, 04:18:53 AM »
I'll be curious to see what the price is going to be once it makes it to North America.

Sony's official list price in Japan:
PCM-A10 19,880 JPY
PCM-D100 95,048 JPY
PCM-D10 49,880 JPY

So the D10 should cost just a little more than half of the D100 in your local market.


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Offline Ozpeter

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2019, 06:08:54 AM »
Proper cardioid mics, too.

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2019, 06:17:42 AM »
Proper cardioid mics, too.
What, the built-ins? YAY more handling noise!? (proximity effect)


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Offline ilduclo

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2019, 10:46:12 AM »
That thing looks huge.

Looks no larger than d50, wish they’d show it next to something, though (or show specs)

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2019, 10:54:52 AM »
Since the Japanese ebay seller has $688 listed (the Japanese sellers are typically at least 25-30% more then US list) I'd bet list will be $499

All about the preamps. Otherwise this is a tarted up 661.
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Offline mnm207

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2019, 11:18:22 AM »
That thing looks huge.

Looks no larger than d50, wish they’d show it next to something, though (or show specs)

According to specs in the E-Bay listing it's about 1 1/2 inches taller than a D100 or D50 and roughly the same width/depth. I'm curious how it'll feel in the hand.

I can't justify buying one of these so I'm starting to look at how to rationalize buying one. 

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2019, 11:29:05 AM »
That thing looks huge.

Looks no larger than d50, wish they’d show it next to something, though (or show specs)

It's slightly larger than even the old D1, certainly larger than the D50. I think I'll wait for the next, hopefully smaller model. As commented above, this is the first portable digital SONY with phantom power, since the Sony D10 ProII. A SONY portable recorder with phantom has been my wet dream since the D1 came out. It would have been perfect if they started a line with no mics. Size matters today more than in 2006, when you could get the D1 anywhere with no hassles, (though I stopped taping for years).
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 11:36:54 AM by noam »

Offline Niels

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2019, 11:35:01 AM »
... wish they’d show it next to something, though (or show specs)

User Soundhunter64 on Instagram shows the D10 next to an A10: https://www.instagram.com/soundhunter64/
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Offline H₂O

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2019, 12:09:38 PM »
It is rather large but I am sure it’s smaller then the d1/d50/d100 + the XLR-1
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Offline adrianb

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2019, 01:48:17 PM »
It is rather large but I am sure it’s smaller then the d1/d50/d100 + the XLR-1

But not the M10 + the XLR-1 which will probably sound better.

Since I will most likely be buying the D10 (having bought every PCM Sony recorder since the D50), I will be able to test that claim.

Offline ycoop

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2019, 02:25:22 PM »
... wish they’d show it next to something, though (or show specs)

User Soundhunter64 on Instagram shows the D10 next to an A10: https://www.instagram.com/soundhunter64/

Damn that makes the A10 look tiny and the D10 looks ginormous.
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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2019, 03:18:02 PM »
It is rather large but I am sure it’s smaller then the d1/d50/d100 + the XLR-1

But not the M10 + the XLR-1 which will probably sound better.

Since I will most likely be buying the D10 (having bought every PCM Sony recorder since the D50), I will be able to test that claim.
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Offline noam

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2019, 04:05:22 PM »
It is rather large but I am sure it’s smaller then the d1/d50/d100 + the XLR-1

SONY PCM D1 Dimensions (WxDxH)   2.8 x 1.3 x 7.6" (72 x 32.7 x 193mm)

SONY PCM D10 DIMENSIONS (W X H X D)
Approx 80.2 x 197.6 x 37.4 mm Approx 3.16 x 7.78 x 1.48 inches


SONY PCM D50 dimensions: 2.9 x 6.1 x 1.3" (74 x 155 x 33mm) (Not Including Projecting Parts and Controls)

SONY PCM D100 dimensions (W x H x D)   2.80 x 6.10 x 1.25" (71.12 x 154.90 x 31.75 mm)

SD MixPre3 dimensions: 36 mm x 144 mm x 110 mm (H x W x D); 1.40” x 5.68” x 4.35”

The D10 is huge. It's the biggest, thickest SONY PCM recorder (excluding the XLR-1). It's not even clear if it has a size advantage over the SD MixPre3 if you don't need the mics.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 04:08:30 PM by noam »

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2019, 04:16:07 PM »
IMHO the mics are a waste of space.  If someone is buying a unit with XLRs they are not likely to be using internal mics.  Good luck with it Sony but not something that comes close to what I would need. 

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2019, 04:35:38 PM »
Here are some more pictures. Someone in Japan even tore it down.

https://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1160894.html

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« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 04:24:51 AM by Sebastian »
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2019, 05:56:00 PM »
IMHO the mics are a waste of space.  If someone is buying a unit with XLRs they are not likely to be using internal mics.  Good luck with it Sony but not something that comes close to what I would need.

If the mics are as good as the D100’s, they could be quite handy, in a pinch.

But I too wish Sony would bring out a box like the old TCD5M or D10proii, with xlr phantom, but also digital I/O, double card slots, DSD, etc.
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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2019, 06:56:48 PM »
There are plenty of situations where built in mics would be fine.  For example, recording lectures, presentations etc.
I could also see having this set up semi-permanently in your studio, practice space, with external mics plugged in.
I've always loved the Sony gear.  Get an M10 for portable recording, D10 for open recording.


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Offline SoundHolic

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2019, 09:12:59 PM »
Here is rough size comparison of recorders projected to 2D. Bottom parts show thickness.  :)
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Offline mitchellm

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2019, 11:14:42 AM »
Here is rough size comparison of recorders projected to 2D. Bottom parts show thickness.  :)

Thanks! That visual is very helpful.

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2019, 01:48:40 PM »
It is rather large but I am sure it’s smaller then the d1/d50/d100 + the XLR-1

But not the M10 + the XLR-1 which will probably sound better.

Since I will most likely be buying the D10 (having bought every PCM Sony recorder since the D50), I will be able to test that claim.


You know the XLR-1 doesn't have a pre-amp right?
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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2019, 03:47:19 PM »
You know the XLR-1 doesn't have a pre-amp right?

Yes, I use it a lot with my D100. I think it's fantastic, expensive but fantastic.

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2019, 05:31:23 PM »
New link:

https://pro.sony/en_AU/products/portable-digital-recorders/pcm-d10


And before we go any further, in the attached pic, there it is... the HOLD button...
i don't use headphones but think it's cool you can switch fast and easy between stereo/l/r.
Notice it has line in too.
Battery life is crazy good
Be cooler if it got rid of the mics and was more compact imo, close to 8" is to big for me to "upgrade"
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline voltronic

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2019, 07:51:24 PM »
You know the XLR-1 doesn't have a pre-amp right?

Yes, I use it a lot with my D100. I think it's fantastic, expensive but fantastic.

I'm curious what led you to go that route as opposed to something with onboard mic inputs, or even getting an actual 2-channel preamp like a MixPre.
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Offline adrianb

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2019, 11:06:27 AM »
I'm curious what led you to go that route as opposed to something with onboard mic inputs, or even getting an actual 2-channel preamp like a MixPre.

Good question. I own a MixPre-3, a pair of Sennheiser MKH 8040 and Audio-Technica BP4025. So why don't I just use them?

The Sony portables are what got me into recording, what is mainly quiet ambient and nature sounds for my own enjoyment. I have every PCM device since the D50, and will no doubt be buying the D10.

But it's the M10 and D100 that I use predominantly, and most of my favourite sounds have been pulled using the D100 and I always have it with me hidden in the car. The XLR-1 was bought here as a curiosity, but to me using it with the D100 sounds just as good as the MixPre-3. In fact I am thinking of selling the MixPre-3 and accepting that the use of external mics is occasional.

I'm curious to see how the D10 performs, but as I said above I bet it's no better with external mics than the M10/XLR-1 and certainly not the D100/XLR-1.

At the moment it's just a matter of convenience. I have the 8040's in ORTF together with the XLR-1 in one setup, I can just pick it up and go knowing that the batteries will be good, as will those in the D100 hidden in the car.

Offline illconditioned

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2019, 10:26:15 PM »
I'm curious what led you to go that route as opposed to something with onboard mic inputs, or even getting an actual 2-channel preamp like a MixPre.

Good question. I own a MixPre-3, a pair of Sennheiser MKH 8040 and Audio-Technica BP4025. So why don't I just use them?

The Sony portables are what got me into recording, what is mainly quiet ambient and nature sounds for my own enjoyment. I have every PCM device since the D50, and will no doubt be buying the D10.

But it's the M10 and D100 that I use predominantly, and most of my favourite sounds have been pulled using the D100 and I always have it with me hidden in the car. The XLR-1 was bought here as a curiosity, but to me using it with the D100 sounds just as good as the MixPre-3. In fact I am thinking of selling the MixPre-3 and accepting that the use of external mics is occasional.

I'm curious to see how the D10 performs, but as I said above I bet it's no better with external mics than the M10/XLR-1 and certainly not the D100/XLR-1.

At the moment it's just a matter of convenience. I have the 8040's in ORTF together with the XLR-1 in one setup, I can just pick it up and go knowing that the batteries will be good, as will those in the D100 hidden in the car.
Based on the measurements of others, it looks like SNR on D10 is approx that of D50.  Both of these are approx 10dB better than the M10.
The D100 is the best.  It has 20dB more SNR than M10 and 10dB more than D10/D50.
M10, D50, D10 and D100 all have excellent very low noise preamps.  Very near SD quality.
I'm talking about dynamic range of the ADC.
All of these recorders are very good, and operate over a very wide gain range.  To get as many bits as possible D100 or SD may be best.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 10:28:35 PM by illconditioned »
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline Sebastian

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #48 on: Yesterday at 04:25:50 AM »
M10, D50, D10 and D100 all have excellent very low noise preamps.  Very near SD quality.

I think at this point in time it's fair to say that the M10's preamps are nowhere near "low noise" - especially when the M10 is run at low sensitivity mic-in or line-in mode. The D50 and D100 might be great, but the "low noise" preamps of the M10 are a myth on par with UFO and Bigfoot sightings. According to the Avisoft measurements, there is a number of Tascam, Roland and Olympus recorders that are considerably quieter. Even the SONY Hi-MD MZ-RH1 beats the M10 by 2dB (mic-in, high) or 5dB (mic-in, low).
Schoeps { MK6 | MK41V } > NBob actives > {Naiant Tinybox v2.0 | Naiant IPA | Naiant PFAs} > {Zoom F8 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d | Olympus LS-P1}

Recordings:
Live Music Archive | DaD Torrents | TTD Torrents | Etree Torrents

Online DSatz

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #49 on: Yesterday at 06:35:38 PM »
According to the measurements I made some years ago, the input noise of the M10 meant that its 24-bit recording mode was essentially pointless--its noise floor was only about one dB below the 16-bit noise floor.
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline voltronic

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #50 on: Yesterday at 06:55:22 PM »
According to the measurements I made some years ago, the input noise of the M10 meant that its 24-bit recording mode was essentially pointless--its noise floor was only about one dB below the 16-bit noise floor.

For both mic and line inputs?  I would think line in would be less noisy.
DPA 4061 | Line Audio CM3 | Naiant X-Q
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- Gustav Mahler

Offline gaoping561

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Re: New Recorder Sony PCM-D10
« Reply #51 on: Today at 06:19:23 AM »


Link a picture from a China web site;

The price is 3499 RMB
https://item.jd.com/100002091271.html

 

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