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Author Topic: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder  (Read 3415 times)

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Offline ideal77dlr

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The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« on: January 13, 2019, 05:54:40 PM »
In the age of wanding and small bags only, it’s surprising that there’s not really anything *quite* like that in the market.
I know ‘stralth’ isn’t a consideration for manufacturers, but size and features usually are.

If you could just have the absolute basic features than contribute to a high quality recording, what would they be?

For me the ideal small recorder needs to go back to minidisc recorder size, no built-in microphones, a 3.5 Stereo line-in, a basic screen (monitor, options etc...), dial/buttons allowing for level adjustment, stop/start rec., a ‘hold’ feature, and a slot for a micro SD card for storage.

Maybe surprisingly, nothing like this really exists does it?

If you just had the basics like this, how small and thin could you go? Smaller than a iPhone?
Sony D7 DAT : Edirol R-09HR : CA-11s (cards & OMNIs): CA-14s : SP-CMC-2s : CA-1900

Offline illconditioned

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2019, 06:14:17 PM »
Not exactly tiny, but Zoom F1 is pretty small.It also has *locking* 3.5mm inputs and outputs.Plug in power.
The disadvantage is the mic preamp is pretty noisy, compared to Sony units.
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

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Offline jerryfreak

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in:
small: MK4/4V > CMR > V3 or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K/R07/PCM-A10/Oade Warm 661/DR100-MKIII

smaller: 4061/4099 CORE or 4011/4018V> d:vice MMA



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Offline justme

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2019, 06:48:16 PM »
Would an iOS device, CCK and a thumb drive sized USB audio interface be suitable?
Or lightning to ADC directly?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 06:56:15 PM by justme »

Offline ideal77dlr

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2019, 12:22:26 AM »
Lectrosonics SPDR

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=187843.45

That’s pretty close to what I’m thinking. The lack of a 3.5 line in (and price) probably kills it a bit.
Sony D7 DAT : Edirol R-09HR : CA-11s (cards & OMNIs): CA-14s : SP-CMC-2s : CA-1900

Offline IronFilm

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2019, 12:47:20 AM »
The MixPre3 is already astonishingly small, and very affordable.

And I wouldn't want to be giving up those XLR inputs.

Offline ideal77dlr

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2019, 01:11:50 AM »
You’d never get the MixPre3 into any venue in Europe - everything is detectors, pat downs, wands and equipment being examined now. Even in an open taping situation you’d have security questioning what it is.

You’d need something smaller.
Sony D7 DAT : Edirol R-09HR : CA-11s (cards & OMNIs): CA-14s : SP-CMC-2s : CA-1900

Offline if_then_else

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2019, 01:31:40 AM »
You’d never get the MixPre3 into any venue in Europe - everything is detectors, pat downs, wands and equipment being examined now. Even in an open taping situation you’d have security questioning what it is.

You’d need something smaller.

Can't confirm this. The regular reaction when open taping with a mixpre-6 used to be:
"How much is it? I want one..."

Offline justme

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2019, 01:52:29 AM »
Then you really need stealth.
A large storage iPhone with Sennheiser Ambeo headphones/mics but no need to have them in ear.
And then simply run the app of choice for recording or streaming.

Can’t get any more casual then that.

You’d never get the MixPre3 into any venue in Europe - everything is detectors, pat downs, wands and equipment being examined now. Even in an open taping situation you’d have security questioning what it is.

You’d need something smaller.


Offline jerryfreak

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2019, 02:31:33 AM »
Lectrosonics SPDR

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=187843.45

That’s pretty close to what I’m thinking. The lack of a 3.5 line in (and price) probably kills it a bit.

easy with a short adapter cable. and price.. yeah, well, its pro gear.
in:
small: MK4/4V > CMR > V3 or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K/R07/PCM-A10/Oade Warm 661/DR100-MKIII

smaller: 4061/4099 CORE or 4011/4018V> d:vice MMA



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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2019, 02:33:40 AM »
Then you really need stealth.
A large storage iPhone with Sennheiser Ambeo headphones/mics but no need to have them in ear.
And then simply run the app of choice for recording or streaming.

Can’t get any more casual then that.

4061s in croakies with a d:vice is way more low pro than the ambeos unless youre hacking them apart to get to the capsules. sounds better as well.
32GB iphone SEs can be had for under $100
in:
small: MK4/4V > CMR > V3 or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K/R07/PCM-A10/Oade Warm 661/DR100-MKIII

smaller: 4061/4099 CORE or 4011/4018V> d:vice MMA



out:
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shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

Offline justme

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2019, 02:58:09 AM »
Thats indeed true.
But at a bit higher cost as well.


Then you really need stealth.
A large storage iPhone with Sennheiser Ambeo headphones/mics but no need to have them in ear.
And then simply run the app of choice for recording or streaming.

Can’t get any more casual then that.

4061s in croakies with a d:vice is way more low pro than the ambeos unless youre hacking them apart to get to the capsules. sounds better as well.
32GB iphone SEs can be had for under $100

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Offline ideal77dlr

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Offline H₂O

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2019, 01:51:15 PM »
https://www.sonosax.ch/product/minir82/

That looks awesome but sooooo expensive!!!


It's also getting pretty old nowadays - I wonder if Sonosax will ever update it based on the R4+
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 09:36:22 PM by H₂O »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2019, 03:35:51 PM »
If you could just have the absolute basic features than contribute to a high quality recording, what would they be?

Sufficient channel count, sufficient mic power, transparent/low-noise preamps, the functional equivalent of Zaxcom "never clip" to avoid the need to think about levels until afterward, record/stop transport control, visual confirmation of recording and confirmation of signal to each chanel, and sufficient battery power.  That's about it. 

The specifics will be different for different folks. For instance, sufficient channel count for me is 4 to 6 (5 to 8 prefered), and sufficient mic power is 5V PIP (no need for phantom or balanced).

-----------------------------------------------------

Beyond that, I dream of a distributed "node" recording system eliminating the need for wired connections, requiring only minimal wireless bandwidth for control, with the capability of each node to continue to free-run if/when the wireless signal drops out.

For open taping each node would act like pretty much like the simple single-channel XLR input "plug-on recorders" which attach directly to the microphone, providing local battery, phantom-powering, and storage, yet with the  ability to maintain 48kHz sample-level sync via a combination of wireless sync and free-run clock accuracy, wireless transport control, and wireless status confirmation.  Associate any number of nodes with the control app and end up with sample accurate clock-sync'd recordings on each of them.

Advanced miniature version would include a pair of built-in, high-quality, low-voltage miniature microphones in each node (Mid/Side with choice of Mid pattern, or omni + hyper for dial-a-pattern), and each node being approximately the size of the miniature DPA boundary mount.  Think DPA d:vice with embedded microphones, battery, recorder, and wireless control.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline ideal77dlr

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2019, 11:40:23 AM »
Does anyone stealth with the MixPre3?

If so, how do you get it in? Particularly in Europe - patdowns, detectors etc...

PM responses please!
Sony D7 DAT : Edirol R-09HR : CA-11s (cards & OMNIs): CA-14s : SP-CMC-2s : CA-1900

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2019, 07:13:37 AM »
Beyond that, I dream of a distributed "node" recording system eliminating the need for wired connections, requiring only minimal wireless bandwidth for control, with the capability of each node to continue to free-run if/when the wireless signal drops out.

isnt that what "jam" time code does? im no video guy but in the manuals for the lectrosonics PDR model it says that you are supposed to "JAM" timecode prior to recording then disconnect the clock in while recording. it seems like its more of a marker than a clock sync over time

When the distance is extreme or using a wireless microphone
is not practical, the PDR recorder can travel
with your subject and capture professional quality audio,
synchronized with timecode. It’s tiny size is unobtrusive
and easily placed in garments and costumes, and easy
to conceal when used as a “plant” microphone to capture
environmental or location sound.
With a time code sync at the start of the production, the
audio track is easily placed accurately in the timeline of a
video clip. The industry standard .wav (BWF) file format
is compatible with essentially any audio or video editing
software.




also as you mentioned in the d:vice thread the apogee metarecorder bluetooth syncs multiple devices, spec is up to 10 meters. i have connected 2 iphones and walked across my house, they disconnected but both kept recording, thats the extent of my testing

« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 08:43:40 AM by jerryfreak »
in:
small: MK4/4V > CMR > V3 or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K/R07/PCM-A10/Oade Warm 661/DR100-MKIII

smaller: 4061/4099 CORE or 4011/4018V> d:vice MMA



out:
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shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

Offline aaronji

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2019, 07:48:52 AM »
You’d never get the MixPre3 into any venue in Europe - everything is detectors, pat downs, wands and equipment being examined now. Even in an open taping situation you’d have security questioning what it is.

You’d need something smaller.

Can't confirm this. The regular reaction when open taping with a mixpre-6 used to be:
"How much is it? I want one..."

My experience is similar to if_then_else.  The security guys never give me, or my gear, a second look when I am open taping.  As far as the venues, maybe it depends on where you are in Europe.  Very few here have detectors and pat downs are pretty perfunctory; I have yet to encounter a wand.  A lot of places have quick bag checks, but even they are pretty cursory.  They are mostly looking for weapons and outside booze.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2019, 03:43:43 PM »
Beyond that, I dream of a distributed "node" recording system eliminating the need for wired connections, requiring only minimal wireless bandwidth for control, with the capability of each node to continue to free-run if/when the wireless signal drops out.

isnt that what "jam" time code does? im no video guy but in the manuals for the lectrosonics PDR model it says that you are supposed to "JAM" timecode prior to recording then disconnect the clock in while recording. it seems like its more of a marker than a clock sync over time.

I think so.  I've don't know much about time code, but as far as I'm aware it provides frame-rate level of synchronization rather than sample-level sync.  The important questions are how close in can it get and how close do we need?   Plenty of folks here are versed in alining and syncing two different clocked sources from separate non-sync'd recorders.   Absolute sync is critical for stereo pairs where sample level sync is needed to keep the two phase-accurate with correct correlation, but not as much so for two separate sources which are not directly correlated- like an main pair + an ambient hall sound pair or the like.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Saltshaker

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2019, 10:04:02 PM »
In the age of wanding and small bags only, it’s surprising that there’s not really anything *quite* like that in the market.
I know ‘stralth’ isn’t a consideration for manufacturers, but size and features usually are.

If you could just have the absolute basic features than contribute to a high quality recording, what would they be?

For me the ideal small recorder needs to go back to minidisc recorder size, no built-in microphones, a 3.5 Stereo line-in, a basic screen (monitor, options etc...), dial/buttons allowing for level adjustment, stop/start rec., a ‘hold’ feature, and a slot for a micro SD card for storage.

Maybe surprisingly, nothing like this really exists does it?

If you just had the basics like this, how small and thin could you go? Smaller than a iPhone?

Even though this is an older thread, the same exact same question came to mind the other night when I taped a show for the first time in quite a while. I was caught off guard by newly installed walk through detectors and I had to change my tactics fast before going through. Fortunately it was all good and I still use my handle R-09, I just cant help but wonder what the latest and greatest was.
I did not find much out there and I expected to find a few newer recorders but not that much. I did see a discontinued PDA recorder by Core Sound that was small but I was thinking something smaller. Although the SPDR was mentioned, has anyone discussed or used the PDR which is smaller?
https://www.lectrosonics.com/US/PDR/product.html

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2019, 01:45:23 PM »
Pcm-a10
in:
small: MK4/4V > CMR > V3 or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K/R07/PCM-A10/Oade Warm 661/DR100-MKIII

smaller: 4061/4099 CORE or 4011/4018V> d:vice MMA



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shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

Offline Saltshaker

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2019, 05:22:15 PM »
Pcm-a10

I like it except if they ditched the internal mics, it would be a perfect size.

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: The case for a super-small, basic high quality recorder
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2019, 06:26:53 PM »
Easily removable if you take it apart
in:
small: MK4/4V > CMR > V3 or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K/R07/PCM-A10/Oade Warm 661/DR100-MKIII

smaller: 4061/4099 CORE or 4011/4018V> d:vice MMA



out:
home:Benchmark DAC1 HGC > Dynaudio BM15A active monitors
shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

 

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