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Author Topic: Generic shock mount for Schoeps type mic?  (Read 539 times)

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Offline szegedin

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Generic shock mount for Schoeps type mic?
« on: February 08, 2019, 06:18:39 PM »
Hi -- Can anyone recommmend the kind of shock mount mic to use with a Schoeps CMC on a boom pole?
I got one of the generic rubber-band sort of types like this, and it ain't happenin' for me.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1075736-REG/auray_shm_esg_shock_mount_for_shotgun.html

Can anyone recommend which type is good to prevent that low frequency rumble as well as possible?
Cheers.

Offline fozzy

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Re: Generic shock mount for Schoeps type mic?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2019, 07:12:53 PM »
The stock schoeps a20s is a good option along with a shure a53m "doughnut", there is also the AT8410 which is a great mount albeit a little bigger than the other options.  There are also a few generic options others can chime in on. 
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Offline admkrk

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Re: Generic shock mount for Schoeps type mic?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2019, 08:12:19 PM »
...

Can anyone recommend which type is good to prevent that low frequency rumble as well as possible?
Cheers.

Are you confusing a shock mount with a windscreen?
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Generic shock mount for Schoeps type mic?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2019, 08:30:35 PM »
The answer to a shockmount is always...

Rycote.  I used to think they were expensive until I started using them.  They are worth every penny.

For Schoeps CMC on a boom, you want an INV-7:
http://mymic.rycote.com/products/invision-inv-7-/
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Offline szegedin

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Re: Generic shock mount for Schoeps type mic?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2019, 09:44:57 PM »
The answer to a shockmount is always...

Rycote.  I used to think they were expensive until I started using them.  They are worth every penny.

For Schoeps CMC on a boom, you want an INV-7:
http://mymic.rycote.com/products/invision-inv-7-/

Okay thanks, looks good.
ANy preference between this and this, strictly in terms of handling noise?

Offline voltronic

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Re: Generic shock mount for Schoeps type mic?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2019, 03:52:32 PM »
The answer to a shockmount is always...

Rycote.  I used to think they were expensive until I started using them.  They are worth every penny.

For Schoeps CMC on a boom, you want an INV-7:
http://mymic.rycote.com/products/invision-inv-7-/

Okay thanks, looks good.
ANy preference between this and this, strictly in terms of handling noise?

Yes; there is a huge difference in stiffness between the two.  The INV-7 is the one you want (2nd image).  The Duo-Lyre on the INV-HG mkIII is MUCH stiffer / less compliant than the single lyres used on the INV-6 and INV-7, even though they have a lower shore rating (68 for the Duo-Lyre vs. 72 for the standard single lyres).

I had a very nice email exchange with Simon Davies at Rycote regarding this, where he informed me this was due to the Duo-Lyre being made much thicker at several key points.

What all this means is that you want the INV-7 for a Schoeps mic.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 05:19:07 PM by voltronic »
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Generic shock mount for Schoeps type mic?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2019, 03:54:17 PM »
I would add that if you like the narrower spacing of the lyres, you can move one of them to a different position on the regular INV-7, or you can buy an INV-6 instead which uses the same lyres but mounted closer together.
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Offline szegedin

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Re: Generic shock mount for Schoeps type mic?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2019, 09:50:02 PM »
I would add that if you like the narrower spacing of the lyres, you can move one of them to a different position on the regular INV-7, or you can buy an INV-6 instead which uses the same lyres but mounted closer together.
Thanks - that INV-7 is what I'm leaning toward. Everybody says you need the heavy one for any kind of windshield on it, but I am going to try to get by with the lightest windshield I can, because the handling noise is so extreme that the priority is on ameliorating that. I think I will go with the Rode version that has adjustable lyre points (seems to actually use Rycote's lyres).

I learned a hell of a lot about shock mounts in 24 hours.  :o

Offline DSatz

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Re: Generic shock mount for Schoeps type mic?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2019, 12:18:04 AM »
For problems with handling noise on a boom, a key point is to pinch off and isolate a loop of slack cable along with the microphone, so that the mike can float and (if necessary) wobble freely within its suspension without its motion being constrained AT ALL by the cable. Otherwise, vibrations enter the microphone through the cable--to a much greater extent than you would probably suspect.

Shock mounts such as the Shure rubber donut, the Sabra or most Chinese knockoffs of the Schoeps A 20 are fairly useless in practice because they don't allow you to do this.

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline szegedin

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Re: Generic shock mount for Schoeps type mic?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2019, 03:10:08 AM »
For problems with handling noise on a boom, a key point is to pinch off and isolate a loop of slack cable along with the microphone, so that the mike can float and (if necessary) wobble freely within its suspension without its motion being constrained AT ALL by the cable. Otherwise, vibrations enter the microphone through the cable--to a much greater extent than you would probably suspect.

Shock mounts such as the Shure rubber donut, the Sabra or most Chinese knockoffs of the Schoeps A 20 are fairly useless in practice because they don't allow you to do this.

--best regards

This is correct. It gets a tremendous amount of vibration through the cable to the point where I thought something was wrong with the mic when I bought it (well something is wrong with the design of the mic). Even lightly touching the cable six feet out is strongly conducted to the capsule. You might as well be scraping the inside of your own ear.

I was able to almost completely eliminate that by using a 1-foot hopper cable between the mic and the cable (which is as you suggest, lashed to the pole with a loop of slack for the mic). This physically decouples that conduction.

Afterward I found that Rode had hit upon this idea with their brilliant system -- I also thought of using a lighter cable -- as you can see here:
https://youtu.be/3_TXeQ__elU?t=81
I guess Rycote will sell you 10" of such cable for $75 also. Man, I'm in the wrong business.
I don't think it's curmudgeonly to suggest that this whole setup is ridiculous. The mic sounds good but this is no way to live.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 03:28:00 AM by szegedin »

Offline voltronic

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Re: Generic shock mount for Schoeps type mic?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2019, 07:50:33 AM »
For problems with handling noise on a boom, a key point is to pinch off and isolate a loop of slack cable along with the microphone, so that the mike can float and (if necessary) wobble freely within its suspension without its motion being constrained AT ALL by the cable. Otherwise, vibrations enter the microphone through the cable--to a much greater extent than you would probably suspect.

Shock mounts such as the Shure rubber donut, the Sabra or most Chinese knockoffs of the Schoeps A 20 are fairly useless in practice because they don't allow you to do this.

--best regards

Absolutely right about the importance of a slack loop, but I completely disagree with your statement about other types of shockmounts being useless due to the lack of a cable attachment point.

You simply get a velcro wrap and tie off the cable with a proper size loop at some distance underneath the mic mount.  In fact, when I have used Rycote INV mounts with the integrated cable clip, I still attached the cable this way because I prefer it to be attached to the stand a few inches below the mount itself.  This allows you to make a larger / gentler cable loop, and reduces the chance that any part of said loop contacts the outside of your shockmount because the cable is "branching off" from a straight path to your mic at an earlier point.

The presence or lack of an integrated cable attachment clip on the shockmount itself should have no bearing on judging the effectiveness of the shockmount.  You still must dress your cables properly, and as long as you have done so, the integrated clip is a non-issue.

In addition, if you attach your cable as I do, those short and thin hopper cables such as the ones sold by Rycote and Ambient are unnecessary, unless they need to wind their way through tight spaces in a basket-type windscreen such as a Cyclone.
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Generic shock mount for Schoeps type mic?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2019, 07:56:09 AM »
Here is a particularly egregious example of what NOT to do from a sales page from the Rode SM4-R shockmount.
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Offline Ronmac

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Re: Generic shock mount for Schoeps type mic?
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2019, 10:30:58 AM »
Another big up for Rycote! I have them on my booms, inside my baskets and on stands in the studio. As Voltronic says, they seem expensive until you try them.

Rycote have a great resource on their web page to help select the right solution for your mic. http://mymic.rycote.com/devices/cmc-series/

Some folks in boom world prefer the more costly Cinela mount, although I haven't tried them myself. http://www.cinela.fr/catalog.php?pid=3

Offline voltronic

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Re: Generic shock mount for Schoeps type mic?
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2019, 05:15:40 PM »
Another big up for Rycote! I have them on my booms, inside my baskets and on stands in the studio. As Voltronic says, they seem expensive until you try them.

Rycote have a great resource on their web page to help select the right solution for your mic. http://mymic.rycote.com/devices/cmc-series/

Some folks in boom world prefer the more costly Cinela mount, although I haven't tried them myself. http://www.cinela.fr/catalog.php?pid=3

I've seen those Cinela mounts before, and they are ridiculously expensive, costing $250 each from most US sellers.  The part that actually does the work also appears to be made from the same Hytrel material that Rycote uses, which these two forum posts confirm:
https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/23796-backpack-recommendation-for-cinela-windshilds/&do=findComment&comment=279963
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=13711288&postcount=4&s=9a5a597375303294a102de6d860a3468

I appreciate that each model may be custom-designed for a specific mic, but once you consider that Rycote offers five levels of stiffness / compliance among their different Lyres that can easily be swapped out, you can get pretty close for most any mic you are using.

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Offline voltronic

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Re: Generic shock mount for Schoeps type mic?
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2019, 05:21:58 PM »
Here is a thread where I posted my correspondence with Simon Davies at Rycote that describes the progression in stiffness between the five different Lyre options.  You cannot go by the shore rating alone.  For example, the Duo-Lyre 68 is far stiffer than a pair of the Single Lyre 72.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=180990.msg2217624
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