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Author Topic: Ugly waveform after applying hard-limiter (screen caps and samples included)  (Read 504 times)

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Offline fandelive

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Hello,

I'm just starting with post-processing. I have a OO7 audience recording that I'd like to improve. My goal is to limit clappers and wooooooo girls in order to be able to normalize waveform based on actual music.

So I've tried an hard-limit filter on selected parts. I think it sounds OK, but the waveform becomes pretty ugly...

I've joined screen caps and before/after samples. I'd like to have your opinion: should I keep using the hard-limit filter, or are there safer ways to limit woooooooooooooo people in post?

Thanks!
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Offline ycoop

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Looks like you’re limiter is setting a hard cutoff. You may want to try using compression instead of limiting.
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Online heathen

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For small passages I often use Audacity's envelope tool.  If the program you're using has something similar, maybe give that a try. 
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Offline capnhook

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For small passages I often use Audacity's envelope tool.  If the program you're using has something similar, maybe give that a try.

^ What heathen says.  Once you get the knack, it's fast and easy.
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Offline Gordon

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envelope here as well but in wavelab.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 11:09:06 AM by Gordon »
Microtech Gefell M20 or M21 > Nbob actives > Naiant PFA > Sound Devices MixPre-6

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Online ilduclo

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I use envelope in cool edit. Definitely the way to go, both UP (for quiet music/talking) and DOWN (for loud applause)


Offline opsopcopolis

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I'm a limiter/compression person. I don't see any problem with hard limiting peaks like clapping or random very loud crowd reacts
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Offline capnhook

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I think that the problem with just hard limiting the peaks is that reducing the relative RMS value of the applause is what really matters.  You need an envelope adjustment to accomplish this.
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"Don't ever take an all or nothing attitude when it comes to making a difference
and being beautiful and making the world a beautiful place through your actions.
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Online ilduclo

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Offline opsopcopolis

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I think that the problem with just hard limiting the peaks is that reducing the relative RMS value of the applause is what really matters.  You need an envelope adjustment to accomplish this.

Not really. The envelope tool in these programs is just volume automation. Assuming the applause is louder than the music, and that is what you're trying to correct, a well set compressor will get the job done.

At the end of the day, it really depends on your workflow. I don't normalize, I amplify on the output stage of my limiter, allowing the limiter to basically all the work. If I needed to do something destructive so that I could normalize the file at the end, it might be different. That being said, I'm pretty lazy, and automating all the applause sounds like a major PITA
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 01:43:35 AM by opsopcopolis »
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Offline if_then_else

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From my point of view, the OP only set a too aggressive threshold and - if available in his DAW or VST plugin - he also should have used a longer look-ahead period.
For surgical (hard-knee) limiting - such as the occasional clappers etc. - I use Fabfilter Pro C2. (Pro L2 only for limiting the master.)

  • The key is to enable oversampling and lookahead.
  • Moreover, disable auto-gain, set the gain level to 0.
  • Eventually, choose an appropriate threshold level.
  • Apply to the impacted section of the waveform.
  • If the peak appears to have been "chopped off", adapt the threshold level (i.e. set it to a less aggressive level) and repeat.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 05:05:33 AM by if_then_else »

Offline strangerinusall

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With iZotope it is possible to reduce most of the disturbing factors. My version is based on hard-limiter-before.mp3, no further EQ etc. From here you can refine the sound according to your taste.
However, in my opinion this only makes sense with the original recording.

Online Sloan Simpson

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I think that the problem with just hard limiting the peaks is that reducing the relative RMS value of the applause is what really matters.  You need an envelope adjustment to accomplish this.

Not really. The envelope tool in these programs is just volume automation. Assuming the applause is louder than the music, and that is what you're trying to correct, a well set compressor will get the job done.

At the end of the day, it really depends on your workflow. I don't normalize, I amplify on the output stage of my limiter, allowing the limiter to basically all the work. If I needed to do something destructive so that I could normalize the file at the end, it might be different. That being said, I'm pretty lazy, and automating all the applause sounds like a major PITA


Agree with this. I'd never automate anything from an audience recording unless the stand gets kicked hard and needs an isolated HPF.
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