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Author Topic: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)  (Read 1065 times)

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Offline noahbickart

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Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« on: March 14, 2019, 10:14:29 AM »
I have a Schoeps vms02ib, which, according to Ted's excellent sticky at the top of this sub requires 9-16v / Schoeps DC Connector tip model # DIN45323  / Center pin (-)  Ring (+) Reverse Polarity

As the internal battery option is 8 x AA, why not use the following:

M-Tip reverse polarity adaptor cable ($5.60):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Guitar-Reverse-Polarity-Converter-Cable-Lead-for-Keyboard-Guitar-Pedal-5-5x2-1mm/131446350790?epid=1292368177&hash=item1e9ad023c6:g:1pAAAOSw--1WrDzQ

8 x AA battery holder with on/off switch and m-tip ($2.90)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-AA-Cells-Battery-12V-Clip-Holder-Box-Case-with-Cover-ON-OFF-Switch-Wire-Lead/252385718968?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131231084308%26meid%3D08c242895c0549fba2d8c22b37928a1b%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D401204561387%26itm%3D252385718968&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109

It seems like such a solution would be very inexpensive ($8.50 plus shipping) and convenient. Rechargeable AA's are plentiful and one could always use disposables in a pinch.

I suspect this could also work for lots of other 12v gear.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 10:20:11 AM by noahbickart »
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline yug du nord

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2019, 11:28:58 AM »
Seems like it should work.

Years ago when I ran a 02IB, I used a 9v DVD battery and Radio Shack Adapta-plug with the tip (I don't remember what size) reversed on the preamp end. 
Worked perfect.
YMMV.
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline todd e

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2019, 11:49:14 AM »
i really like this option too.  the internal sled is oriented in such a way that replacements from newegg mouser b&h are incorrect.  thank you for ideas/links.

Offline perks

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2019, 12:22:41 PM »
I think this is the key...... Schoeps DC Connector tip.

The M-tip adapter will power the VMS but it will not be a rock solid connection and slightest bump to the cable is likely to disrupt DC power temporarily.

So a perfect world solution might be to hack off the M-tip on that adapter and replace it with Schoeps' proprietary connector. From what I can see all Schoeps did was to add a rubber donut ring to the end of a M-tip to get it to seat correctly into the VMS' DC power pin on the front of the box.
Mics: Schoeps MK5, Schoeps MK41, AT853u (C,SC,H,O)
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Naiant PiPsqueak, Church Ugly, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony PCM-M10 (x2), Tascam DR-07, Marantz PMD-661

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2019, 01:08:10 PM »
I think this is the key...... Schoeps DC Connector tip.

The M-tip adapter will power the VMS but it will not be a rock solid connection and slightest bump to the cable is likely to disrupt DC power temporarily.

So a perfect world solution might be to hack off the M-tip on that adapter and replace it with Schoeps' proprietary connector. From what I can see all Schoeps did was to add a rubber donut ring to the end of a M-tip to get it to seat correctly into the VMS' DC power pin on the front of the box.

The problem is that Redding says they don’t have any more of the tips.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline yug du nord

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2019, 01:38:59 PM »
Not trying to hijack thread...  but I ran a 02IB for 2-3 years with the adapta-plug tip and never ever had a power issue.
I'll try to see if I have a record of what size tip I was using...  but whatever size it was, it fit perfect.
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline perks

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2019, 01:41:14 PM »
Yep - Steve Toney managed to track down a Schoeps vendor in Germany a few years back and snapped up what was left of their inventory of Schoeps tips. He super-generously gave me one and then I got a 2nd when I bought my 2nd VMS ( I believe the seller got his from Steve as well). Its amazing that something so tiny, simple, and inexpensive can throw a wrench into using the VMS efficiently.

One of the other things Steve helped me with was he got a few of the battery sleds and hacked off the metal arms (not sure what to call these) that make the battery sled connection inside the VMS. He flipped those metal arms around and superglued it all back together which effectively made a normal battery sled into one that now has the needed reverse polarity. Not the prettiest battery sled hack but it works and I have more confidence in using the sled (especially when taping lo-pro) that I do using an external battery that needs to be plugged into the front of the VMS.
Mics: Schoeps MK5, Schoeps MK41, AT853u (C,SC,H,O)
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Naiant PiPsqueak, Church Ugly, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony PCM-M10 (x2), Tascam DR-07, Marantz PMD-661

Offline perks

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2019, 01:45:04 PM »
Not trying to hijack thread...  but I ran a 02IB for 2-3 years with the adapta-plug tip and never ever had a power issue.
I'll try to see if I have a record of what size tip I was using...  but whatever size it was, it fit perfect.

Guy - it fits but it can easily jiggle around? So if you have it set in your bag and nothing touches it then no problems but if someone were to accidentally kick the bag you could have a momentary disruption in power? Just guessing but that is my experience with the adapta plug solution. I used those for a while before Steve fixed me up with the real deal Schoeps plug.

I like Noah's solution and hope someone spends the $10 to test it out.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 01:47:30 PM by perks »
Mics: Schoeps MK5, Schoeps MK41, AT853u (C,SC,H,O)
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Naiant PiPsqueak, Church Ugly, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony PCM-M10 (x2), Tascam DR-07, Marantz PMD-661

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2019, 02:32:59 PM »
Here's the thread with Steve's really useful information: https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=170684.0

TL/DR= M tip works, but is liable to shorting if pulled while the unit is on. He suggests that as long as one is careful to turn the unit off before pulling the plug, the m-tip should work just fine.

I'm really intrigued by the notion of hacking one of the standard 8 AA battery holders, so as to use it internally.

This whole mind exercise comes from a deep place of fear: When my plastic battery holder dies, how will I continue to run my VMS?
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline perks

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2019, 02:46:47 PM »
mmmm I'm useless with tools or DIY hacks although I'm fascinated watching what other creative people can do. I'm wondering how hard it could be to engineer a rubber (or even gaff tape/heat shrink/epoxy) donut to fit around the end of the M-tip adapter effectively creating a Schoeps-like tip.

Otherwise the battery sled hack looks like something I would attempt to tackle if/when I break the sleds I got from Steve.   
Mics: Schoeps MK5, Schoeps MK41, AT853u (C,SC,H,O)
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Naiant PiPsqueak, Church Ugly, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony PCM-M10 (x2), Tascam DR-07, Marantz PMD-661

Offline rippleish20

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2019, 02:56:07 PM »

I have a Korg MR1000 and it uses atypical connector. One of the Tekkeon Adapta-plug type connectors worked. Perhaps of of those would work of this too? Then you just reverse tip so negative and positive were switched...
Schoeps CMC6 (MK22's, MK41's) / AKG C480B (ck61, ck63, ck8) / DPA (4061) / Neumann KM100 (AK40, AK50) / Audio Technica AT4050ST/ AT853s  (cardiod, omni) / CA-14 (cardiod) / CA-11 (Omni)
KCY 250/5 and 250/0 > naiant PFA or IPA or Nbox 
Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Mixpre-3 /Roland R-07 /Tascam DR-100mkIII / d:vice

Offline perks

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2019, 04:33:25 PM »

I have a Korg MR1000 and it uses atypical connector. One of the Tekkeon Adapta-plug type connectors worked. Perhaps of of those would work of this too? Then you just reverse tip so negative and positive were switched...

The problem is the adapta plug does fit on the pin but the VMS has a lot of open space around the area you plug the adapta-tip onto and therefore it can slide around if jostled preventing plug from seating tightly around the pin. The Schoeps version of the plug that is no longer available has a rubber ring around the end of the M-tip connector that fills the open space inside the VMS making the plug fit snugly. My explanation probably isn't making this clear without having pictures.
Mics: Schoeps MK5, Schoeps MK41, AT853u (C,SC,H,O)
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Naiant PiPsqueak, Church Ugly, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony PCM-M10 (x2), Tascam DR-07, Marantz PMD-661

Offline rippleish20

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2019, 05:01:28 PM »

I have a Korg MR1000 and it uses atypical connector. One of the Tekkeon Adapta-plug type connectors worked. Perhaps of of those would work of this too? Then you just reverse tip so negative and positive were switched...

The problem is the adapta plug does fit on the pin but the VMS has a lot of open space around the area you plug the adapta-tip onto and therefore it can slide around if jostled preventing plug from seating tightly around the pin. The Schoeps version of the plug that is no longer available has a rubber ring around the end of the M-tip connector that fills the open space inside the VMS making the plug fit snugly. My explanation probably isn't making this clear without having pictures.

I get the idea.


An alternative then is to search for DIN45323. This is apparently a standard German connector and variations are available from other manufacturers. Many appear to be in Europe but I see some avaiable in the US.

http://www1.futureelectronics.com/doc/Friwo/1807701.pdf
https://www.buerklin.com/en/1807703-hollow-plug-to-din-45323/p/24k4412
Schoeps CMC6 (MK22's, MK41's) / AKG C480B (ck61, ck63, ck8) / DPA (4061) / Neumann KM100 (AK40, AK50) / Audio Technica AT4050ST/ AT853s  (cardiod, omni) / CA-14 (cardiod) / CA-11 (Omni)
KCY 250/5 and 250/0 > naiant PFA or IPA or Nbox 
Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Mixpre-3 /Roland R-07 /Tascam DR-100mkIII / d:vice

Offline perks

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2019, 10:50:57 PM »
^ The pic in this link you posted looks almost identical to the plug on my cable. Eureka! I think you found it  ;D

https://www.buerklin.com/en/1807703-hollow-plug-to-din-45323/p/24k4412
Mics: Schoeps MK5, Schoeps MK41, AT853u (C,SC,H,O)
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Naiant PiPsqueak, Church Ugly, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony PCM-M10 (x2), Tascam DR-07, Marantz PMD-661

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2019, 11:47:21 PM »
^ The pic in this link you posted looks almost identical to the plug on my cable. Eureka! I think you found it  ;D

https://www.buerklin.com/en/1807703-hollow-plug-to-din-45323/p/24k4412

I wonder if Ted can marry this to the AA box above....
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2019, 08:49:05 AM »
Here's another version:

https://roka-berlin.de/products/power-supply-connectors/power-supply-plug-overmolded-on-cable/?lang=en

it seems like the important term is "overmolded" and "45323"
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline caymanreview

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2019, 12:50:27 PM »
I think this is the key...... Schoeps DC Connector tip.

The M-tip adapter will power the VMS but it will not be a rock solid connection and slightest bump to the cable is likely to disrupt DC power temporarily.

So a perfect world solution might be to hack off the M-tip on that adapter and replace it with Schoeps' proprietary connector. From what I can see all Schoeps did was to add a rubber donut ring to the end of a M-tip to get it to seat correctly into the VMS' DC power pin on the front of the box.

The problem is that Redding says they don’t have any more of the tips.

i believe i got a couple somewhere. i ordered a few at one point and they only had one, and sent me that and put the rest of my oder down as backordered. months later i got a couple more in the mail and they refunded me for the 1-2 they didnt send me that i had originally ordered

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2019, 01:02:04 PM »
I think this is the key...... Schoeps DC Connector tip.

The M-tip adapter will power the VMS but it will not be a rock solid connection and slightest bump to the cable is likely to disrupt DC power temporarily.

So a perfect world solution might be to hack off the M-tip on that adapter and replace it with Schoeps' proprietary connector. From what I can see all Schoeps did was to add a rubber donut ring to the end of a M-tip to get it to seat correctly into the VMS' DC power pin on the front of the box.

The problem is that Redding says they don’t have any more of the tips.

i believe i got a couple somewhere. i ordered a few at one point and they only had one, and sent me that and put the rest of my oder down as backordered. months later i got a couple more in the mail and they refunded me for the 1-2 they didnt send me that i had originally ordered

^
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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2019, 02:33:51 PM »
I had a cable with one of the schoeps tips that I almost gave away since it sat in the YS so long.  Can't remember who eventually bought it. 
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2019, 08:32:13 AM »
I think this is the key...... Schoeps DC Connector tip.

The M-tip adapter will power the VMS but it will not be a rock solid connection and slightest bump to the cable is likely to disrupt DC power temporarily.

So a perfect world solution might be to hack off the M-tip on that adapter and replace it with Schoeps' proprietary connector. From what I can see all Schoeps did was to add a rubber donut ring to the end of a M-tip to get it to seat correctly into the VMS' DC power pin on the front of the box.

The problem is that Redding says they don’t have any more of the tips.

i believe i got a couple somewhere. i ordered a few at one point and they only had one, and sent me that and put the rest of my oder down as backordered. months later i got a couple more in the mail and they refunded me for the 1-2 they didnt send me that i had originally ordered

I’ll gladly one if you have an extra....
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline kleiner Rainer

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2019, 01:17:52 PM »
Newark sells a compatible connector:

https://www.newark.com/lumberg/nes-1-g/plug-low-voltage-1-95mm/dp/97K6463?st=nes%201

Made by Lumberg, this connector is called NES 1 G. There is a plastic shroud around the barrel, but I suppose this can be cut away or if I read the drawing correct, it should slide into the casing. Even here in Germany they are a rare sight nowadays, most DC plugs and jacks are 5.5/2.1 or 5.5/2.5

Hope that helps.

Rainer
recording steam trains since 1985

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Idea for VMS (& other 12v m-tip reverse polarity gear)
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2019, 01:51:43 PM »
Newark sells a compatible connector:

https://www.newark.com/lumberg/nes-1-g/plug-low-voltage-1-95mm/dp/97K6463?st=nes%201

Made by Lumberg, this connector is called NES 1 G. There is a plastic shroud around the barrel, but I suppose this can be cut away or if I read the drawing correct, it should slide into the casing. Even here in Germany they are a rare sight nowadays, most DC plugs and jacks are 5.5/2.1 or 5.5/2.5

Hope that helps.

Rainer

Thanks. I've ordered a few of these and I'll report back.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

 

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