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Author Topic: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....  (Read 2927 times)

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Offline Papaphunk

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Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« on: April 10, 2019, 09:37:44 AM »
I've collected and work with about 5 different sets of $250 Mics Currently. I'm pleased for the most part with my pull's, but curious what folks inputs were for the next step up...

Current Collection of Mics Include Superlux s502 ORTF,  CA-11 Omni, CA-14 Cards w (2) CA 9200 PowerAmps, Rode M5 Mics, SP C4 Mics with Hyper, Omni and Card Caps.

Looking at $500 & maybe $800 Range....Hit me with your thoughts. I mainly record indoors at venues with 600 to 1000 Folks, but also record outdoors at Delfest, and Summer Fests

 :cheers:
****************************************************
CA-14 Card Mic's - CA-11 Omni's - Rode M5 Mic's - Superlux s502
CA 9200 PreAmps - Studio Projects C4 Hyper/Card/Omni
Busman MOD Tascam DR-70D - TASCAM DR-100MKII 
****************************************************

Recordings on archive: https://archive.org/details/@papaphunk

Offline beegar

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2019, 10:16:43 AM »
You can get into an MBHO active setup for around that price from No Hype Audio. He had 2 ka200 cardioid capsules left as of yesterday when I spoke to him.

2x ka200 Cardioid Capsules - 140 Euros each
2x Capsule Adapters - 99 Euros each
2x Naiant PFA - $70 each

You can also expand on this with numerous other capsules- I particularly like the ka300 wide cardioid and ka500 hyper cardioid. I haven't used the ka200 as I personally prefer the ck61 cardioid sound but here are some links to get an idea on what the line sounds like.

ka500: https://archive.org/details/mh2019-02-28.mbho.ka500
ka500: https://archive.org/details/spafford2019-02-16.mbho.ka500
ka300: https://archive.org/details/tgid2018-12-30.mbho.ka300
ka300: https://archive.org/details/jkb2019-02-26.mbho.ka300

ka500 w/ ck62 center omni: https://archive.org/details/isd2019-03-30.mbho.ka500.akg.ck62
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 10:33:30 AM by beegar »
Mics: nbob/480+ck61/62/63; C568EB; MKE2
Pre: FP-24
Recorders: Mixpre 6; A10

Offline tim in jersey

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2019, 11:18:51 AM »
AKG 480's + ck61 and ck63's. Can probably easily score them on the used market for what you already have invested in your current mics and then some...

Or maybe just the caps and Nbob actives...


Offline beegar

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2019, 11:29:20 AM »
AKG 480's + ck61 and ck63's. Can probably easily score them on the used market for what you already have invested in your current mics and then some...

Or maybe just the caps and Nbob actives...

I've found the ck63s very hard to find lately as I have been looking for a set myself. 460s run about $150-175 each for a clean one and about $250 for a 460 w/ck61. Not sure about the 480s on market value.

I did just place an order for AKG nbobs though  :)
Mics: nbob/480+ck61/62/63; C568EB; MKE2
Pre: FP-24
Recorders: Mixpre 6; A10

Offline heathen

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2019, 11:32:13 AM »
I don't mean this to sound snarky or shitty, but are you sure you're getting everything you can out of your current mics?  Making a great recording doesn't necessarily require expensive mics.  Location/setup is more important.

That said, an essential piece of information is missing here: what do you find lacking in your current recordings? 
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031 | AT AE5100 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline tim in jersey

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2019, 11:42:58 AM »
I don't mean this to sound snarky or shitty, but are you sure you're getting everything you can out of your current mics?  Making a great recording doesn't necessarily require expensive mics.  Location/setup is more important.

That said, an essential piece of information is missing here: what do you find lacking in your current recordings?

Rich has been hanging around Team Philly long enough to know the venues and where the sweet spots are. I don't think that is an issue...

Offline anodyne33

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2019, 04:10:00 PM »
Controversial opinion:

"Stepping up" could be overrated. Of course you'll find a lot of "Go Schoeps or go home" in this neck of the woods and in no way am I trying to dissuade you from trying something else. If I were you I'd try borrowing any sets of mics that you can. I've only owned two different mics, ADT a51s and AKG Blue Lines and I don't have anything bad to say about either so take that into account when considering my opinion. I'd be sure as happy to throw as set of SM57s in the air ti catch a show.

I'll advocate for AKG 390s. I like them and they're reasonably priced.

Pockets full of nickels and nothing left to eat, and I'm stuck behind a semi on Soniat Street.

Offline billydee

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2019, 04:42:40 PM »
Consider adding some vintage flavor for minimal cost to your quiver.

I ran Schoeps for many years before I semi-retired from taping. Once I got back in the game I went for cheaper but what I'd consider still high quality mics. And again, it's all about placement.

There are amazing deals on Japanese-manufactured electret condenser mics these days. And it's an inexpensive investment to treat your ears to something different.

There's of course the Nakamichi CM-300 and 100 models along with their "clones", the Tascam PE-120 model and the Teac ME-120 and 80 models. All of those are practically being given away at times on eBay lately.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 04:47:23 PM by billydee »

Offline Craig T

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2019, 04:45:55 PM »
Look at MBHO and Beyerdynamic.  Excellent bang/buck.
Schoeps cmc6/4v / Line Audio CM3, OM1 / ADK A51 / Church Audio CA-14
Naiant Tinybox v2.2 / NBox(P) / Apogee Mini-MP / Church Audio ST9200 / CA-UGLY
Sony PCM-M10 / Tascam DR-70D

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2019, 05:37:07 PM »
Vote for. Busman AudioBSC1 stereo pair, four patterns and can be had used for $300ish a pair. Imo a big jump from what you run now.wantKeep the Churches, they are quite solid and great for 😈 .

Owned MBHO two different times, maybe a small leap from the Busmans. But you can get an active MBHO setup as mentioned above, more money but still 1k or so.

Couple of good options.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 05:38:41 PM by MakersMarc »
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

Home: the Stereo Hospital budget refurb rig: Lappie>DragonFly Red with Jitterbug>Nikko NR520 amp>B&W V202 speakers. Hi Fi Goodwill style.

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2019, 06:53:33 PM »
Anodyne beat me to it.  Bought mine almost 30 years ago and they are still running fine.  Best move I ever made. 

Offline Papaphunk

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2019, 08:24:39 AM »
Thanks everyone for their feedback so far....might try to add another set of mics to the arsenal later on this year. Def. some good options here to explore and research.

Keep em coming if you like.
****************************************************
CA-14 Card Mic's - CA-11 Omni's - Rode M5 Mic's - Superlux s502
CA 9200 PreAmps - Studio Projects C4 Hyper/Card/Omni
Busman MOD Tascam DR-70D - TASCAM DR-100MKII 
****************************************************

Recordings on archive: https://archive.org/details/@papaphunk

Offline ilduclo

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2019, 08:29:24 AM »
Dpa omnis in the yard sale.

Offline DSatz

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2019, 07:07:03 PM »
In general, if you're looking for the lowest cost for a high level of quality, you're in luck if omnidirectional mikes are your preference. Those are easier to design and manufacture to a given standard than directional microphones, so there are more satisfying options at relatively low prices. They probably won't be as close to the design spec or as well-matched as you would get from a higher-end manufacturer--but that's a somewhat less critical consideration with omnis, since you don't (normally) use them close together.

Next best bargain "tier" is cardioids. They're more complex than omnis to design and manufacture, but there's not much mystery left as to how to do that. That doesn't mean that all cardioids sound equally good when recording wide-range music--they don't by a long shot. The most common application (communication) drives most product design decisions, and it doesn't require the same qualities as music recording (e.g. extended low-frequency response, smooth high-frequency response, uniform polar patterns across the frequency range, wide dynamic range, low distortion). But one can find well-made, good-sounding cardioids for wide-range music recording in the medium price range; they definitely exist.

On the other hand, supercardioids, figure-8s, shotgun microphones and other "minority" patterns such as wide cardioids and hypercardioids are still technological specialty items. None of the low- or medium-price offerings in these categories are the near sonic equals of the top professional brands, and one shouldn't fool oneself about that. Again this is partly because the largest number of microphones by far aren't designed for wide-range music recording, since that's not what most people them for, and the qualities required for different applications conflict.

But the design, manufacturing and quality control requirements of these microphone types (or capsule types) are also considerably more difficult than with omnis or cardioids. Fewer designers and manufacturers know their way around in these areas, and the cost of manufacture and quality control is higher as well. You could take the best supercardioid microphone apart and look at it under a microscope (as all the clone manufacturers have surely done) but still not know how to make one yourself, except approximately--and the ones that you do make, you couldn't sell for highly competitive prices if you maintain high quality control standards and offer an active, supportive service infrastructure. So by and large, economic forces ensure that that doesn't happen.

--best regards
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 10:10:24 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline tim in jersey

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2019, 11:10:40 PM »
Rich,

I have a pair of AKG bluelines I could loan you if you'd like...

Offline obaaron

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2019, 01:01:53 AM »
I would go with a pair of AKG 460’s with ck61’’s or ck1’s. You will have several capsule options you can add down the road as needed....hypers, omnis, or shotguns they are flexible mics and sound great for a very reasonable price imo
Mics:  Gefell M20,M21/sms2000/nbob | Schoeps MK4V/cmc6/nbob | AKG c460b/c480b/a60/Naiant actives - ck61,62,63,69 ;ck1,3,8;ck1x,2x,3x/MK46 | Neumann KM140's/Nick Mod LC3/Naiant PFA| AT853, AT933 | CA-11c,o
Pres: Naiant Littlebox | Tinybox | BMod Edirol UA-5 | Church ST-9200
Recorders:  Zoom F8 | Tascam DR-680 | Tascam DR-60D | Sony PCM-M10
Video: Canon VIXIA HF R42

**ISO** -   Schoeps mk22 matched pair | Gefell M27’s | Neumann AK50’s

Offline vwmule

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2019, 02:09:17 AM »
Seek 480s, cards at least. More than you budget but the upgrade will be undeniable and suppress cravings. You'll land a pair of top-quality mics at a market value price.

If not, agree that Beyerdynamic is overlooked.

Offline Papaphunk

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2019, 10:50:00 AM »
Thanks for everyone's input, I've read every word. Would love to step up to the AKG/Beyerdynamic/MBHO/Neumann Level next later this year...

It could just be some Schoeps envy creeping in there as well.....There is an amazing amount of Schoeps tapers just in the Philly area, I can think of at least a half dozen off the top of my head. So sometimes when I arrive at a venue and think, man why even bother  :D With 2 kids, these will never be in my price range.....But think I also need to just get over that feeling as well and have more confidence in my current gear Setup until I can upgrade.

Fun Hobby I've enjoyed tremendously over the past 5 years. Looking forward to investing to making great recordings in the future.

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 02:55:47 PM by Papaphunk »
****************************************************
CA-14 Card Mic's - CA-11 Omni's - Rode M5 Mic's - Superlux s502
CA 9200 PreAmps - Studio Projects C4 Hyper/Card/Omni
Busman MOD Tascam DR-70D - TASCAM DR-100MKII 
****************************************************

Recordings on archive: https://archive.org/details/@papaphunk

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2019, 05:13:35 PM »
Thanks for everyone's input, I've read every word. Would love to step up to the AKG/Beyerdynamic/MBHO/Neumann Level next later this year...

It could just be some Schoeps envy creeping in there as well.....There is an amazing amount of Schoeps tapers just in the Philly area, I can think of at least a half dozen off the top of my head. So sometimes when I arrive at a venue and think, man why even bother  :D With 2 kids, these will never be in my price range.....But think I also need to just get over that feeling as well and have more confidence in my current gear Setup until I can upgrade.

Fun Hobby I've enjoyed tremendously over the past 5 years. Looking forward to investing to making great recordings in the future.

 :cheers:

I might have thought that when I bought my MK4's in the early 90's.  Now after well over 1,000 shows on a per show basis the cost is negligible.  I did purchase a used pair of MK41s a few years back for stadiums, big festivals and arenas if I am further back but that was not something I needed to do.  If you go the Schoeps route you won't have upgrade envy.

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2019, 07:44:25 AM »
Honestly, I think that w/your SP C4 and s502, you're good to go.    Sure you could dump $500 on top of what you have invested...but I dont think you'd be sitting  back going "my recordings def. are a LOT better".    But then again...you may.

The SP C4's never cease to impress me with their sound.  It's not bright and cheesy....but smooth and natural.   
Maybe get a LSD2 or other LD stereo mic that will let you play with MS and Blumlein techniques.

Offline tim in jersey

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2019, 03:25:14 AM »
Rich,

I have a pair of AKG bluelines I could loan you if you'd like...

Offer still stands.

Offline tim in jersey

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2019, 03:38:53 AM »
Also, you need to run upfront w/ Litz, and Antaya, and occasionally, me... If we get shut down, so what? We start  >:D taping...

Offline Papaphunk

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2019, 12:01:04 PM »
Rich,

I have a pair of AKG bluelines I could loan you if you'd like...

Offer still stands.

Thanks Timme, I may take you up on that sometime down the line.
****************************************************
CA-14 Card Mic's - CA-11 Omni's - Rode M5 Mic's - Superlux s502
CA 9200 PreAmps - Studio Projects C4 Hyper/Card/Omni
Busman MOD Tascam DR-70D - TASCAM DR-100MKII 
****************************************************

Recordings on archive: https://archive.org/details/@papaphunk

Offline adrianf74

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2019, 04:09:07 PM »
The AKG blue line loaners are a great bump up.  If you see somebody with CK63s, grab them. And either some bodies or nBob cables with PFAs or a Baby nBox. And go that route. 

I've owned pretty much everything and circled back to the 63s because they were what made me happy and the right opportunity came up. If you're looking for a second set of caps, and run open often, the Line Audio CM3s are a great buy. Used them a few times and love them when I don't need cards.
Mics: AKG ck63-ULS > nBob Actives, Line Audio CM3 | Decks: [A10 or R-07 TBD], Zoom F4 |Power: Baby nBox, Talentcell 12V 6000mAh Rechargeable Battery

Offline Papaphunk

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2019, 09:57:40 AM »
Rich,

I have a pair of AKG bluelines I could loan you if you'd like...

Offer still stands.

Looks like these come with a few different Cap arrangements, and fun about $500 / mic so $1K pair retail..... ?

https://www.akg.com/blueline-series.html

Maybe bring em to Delfest for a day if you are coming down and feel inspired. I would just need an XLR Cable correct ? We can wait for another show closer to home if you prefer.
****************************************************
CA-14 Card Mic's - CA-11 Omni's - Rode M5 Mic's - Superlux s502
CA 9200 PreAmps - Studio Projects C4 Hyper/Card/Omni
Busman MOD Tascam DR-70D - TASCAM DR-100MKII 
****************************************************

Recordings on archive: https://archive.org/details/@papaphunk

Offline beegar

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Mics: nbob/480+ck61/62/63; C568EB; MKE2
Pre: FP-24
Recorders: Mixpre 6; A10

Offline hoppedup

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2019, 02:20:37 PM »
Piling on. I run the akg 391s. I have been extremely happy with them. I got mine with card and omni caps in the yard sale a few years ago. Owner was asking $280 for the bodies and card caps. And $420 with omni caps included.

That said, I made some of my favorite recordings with CA-14s. Nothing wrong with them at all.
AKG SE300B CK91
CA-14 omnis
JB Mod NAK 300 CP1 - CP2
SKM 184
CA 9200
SD MixPre-6M, Tascam DR-40, Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-70D, Tascam DR-22WL, Marantz PMD-706
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G7K

↑↑↓↓←→←→ BA Start
         


My recordings on bt.etree
  
My recordings on LMA

Offline cjc1103

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2019, 11:39:19 PM »
I have a pair of AKG C391's that sound really good. A taper friend of mine has a pair that he likes almost as much as his MiLab VM-44's, which are at least 3 times the price. I wouldn't buy a new set at $500 each, but you can find a good used pair for a lot less. A Chinese mic that is really an excellent value is the SE Electronics SE8. Low noise, flat response curve, excellent mic, $500/matched pair. Rode NT5's are another good value that's not mentioned much here.
Chris
Chattanooga, TN

Offline Sonus Captor

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Offline BlindGuyEars

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2019, 10:30:22 AM »
Not sure if you want some omni's for stealth situations, but:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=190677.0

They're not moving quickly for some reason, whereas a pair of 4061's I had sold immediately, and for more money. 

Offline heathen

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2019, 11:27:20 AM »
Not sure if you want some omni's for stealth situations, but:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=190677.0

They're not moving quickly for some reason, whereas a pair of 4061's I had sold immediately, and for more money.

My guess is people think the 4060s are only for quiet acoustic stuff, and most people here are recording loud stuff.  I'm ashamed to admit that I'm one of those people!
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031 | AT AE5100 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Next Step Up from Church Audio / Superlux Mics....
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2019, 12:43:52 PM »
i was speaking with DPA rep who told me they will have a lower cost 206x series out in next few years to match the 2006/2011 budget series

also a 6000 series in the full mics which is interesting. If i recall he said it will be built around the technology of the 4041 omni capsule

i am unsure how they could make a superior version of the 4011 but that should be interesting
in:
small: MK4/4V > CMR > V3 or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K/R07/PCM-A10/Oade Warm 661/DR100-MKIII

smaller: 4061/4099 CORE or 4011/4018V> d:vice MMA



out:
home:Benchmark DAC1 HGC > Dynaudio BM15A active monitors
shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

 

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