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Author Topic: New Sanken M-S stereo shotgun mic coming in June  (Read 1534 times)

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Offline nebulax

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New Sanken M-S stereo shotgun mic coming in June
« on: May 27, 2019, 09:14:59 PM »
Looks promising. A stereo M-S shotgun mic might be really good for some outdoor shows. https://www.sankenmicrophones.com/production/shotgun/cms-50/
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 09:21:27 PM by nebulax »
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: New Sanken M-S stereo shotgun mic coming in June
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2019, 03:16:09 AM »
that looks pretty rad
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Offline dactylus

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Re: New Sanken M-S stereo shotgun mic coming in June
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2019, 12:26:09 PM »

SANKEN CMS-50 COMPACT SHOTGUN MICROPHONE
$1,795.00 USD

https://www.trewaudio.com/product/sanken-cms-50/
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Offline illconditioned

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Re: New Sanken M-S stereo shotgun mic coming in June
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2019, 01:15:05 PM »
Does anyone know what is inside this?Are they real fig8 capsules, back-to-back cards, or something else?
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline DSatz

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Re: New Sanken M-S stereo shotgun mic coming in June
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2019, 12:10:14 AM »
The acoustic principle of the shotgun microphone is based on sound wavelengths. As long as we humans persist in recording sound waves in air rather than, say, mercury or molten iron, that principle can't be miniaturized. When a shotgun microphone is made smaller (specifically the "interference tube" in front of the capsule), its effectiveness is correspondingly reduced.

Every shotgun microphone has a certain transition frequency, above which the slotted "interference tube" starts to narrow the pickup pattern of the mike. The shorter the tube, the higher that transition frequency will be. With a normal "short shotgun" (ca. 8" to 9" interference tube), the transition frequency is around 2 kHz. That's far higher than the fundamentals of most musical tones--just below high C on a piccolo--but consonant articulation in the human voice happens up around there, and shotgun microphones are designed primarily for dialog recording. Thus the "short shotgun" has always been pretty much the lower limit of size for a practical, working product. Schoeps, Sennheiser, Neumann, Sanken, DPA, AKG, A-T, ... every manufacturer of professional shotgun microphones offers one or more models in this range of size and effectiveness.

[edited later to add:] The action of the interference tube is irregular with respect to sound frequency and angle of sound arrival to a much greater extent that most people would probably expect. It's nothing like the smooth, gradual reduction in sensitivity that occurs with ordinary directional microphones if a sound source moves off-axis (where you still get a generally similar sound quality even while the level decreases due to the microphone's directional pattern).

Instead, with shotgun microphones, if sound reaches the microphone from various off-axis angles, each such arriving "version" of the sound will receive different treatment by the interference tube. The higher the frequency, the more abrupt and severe those variations will be. At any given angle certain ranges of higher frequencies will be greatly reduced, while others (perhaps quite close to the frequencies being reduced) will be boosted by additive reinforcement--while at different angles of arrival, the bounds of all those frequency ranges will be different. The difference in response between two nearby frequencies at any given off-axis angle--or between the response to the same frequency at two off-axis angles that are relatively close to one another--can be as great as 10 to 12 dB.

The effect is like that of comb filtering, except that the frequencies of the filter depend greatly on the angle of the arriving sound. As I said, it's nothing like the broad, generally smooth attenuation that's created when a sound arrives off-axis with a normal directional microphone. So a shotgun microphone has greater directivity in the aggregate at high frequencies than an ordinary directional microphone, but no shotgun microphone, no matter how expensive, really sounds good off-axis. And for this reason, professionals never use shotguns in situations where the the main sound source of interest would arrive both on- _and_ (at all strongly) off-axis, i.e. via reflection from room surfaces, because then the irregular off-axis pickup detracts from the quality of the on-axis pickup.
[end of added part]

The tube has to be nearly twice as long to narrow the microphone's pattern even slightly at 1 Khz (though please note: That's still higher than the fundamental frequency of most musical tones). A longer tube also creates a narrower pattern at the highest frequencies than a shorter tube does. So most of the above manufacturers also offer "long shotguns". But sound engineers prefer to use short shotguns whenever possible rather than long ones; they sound better generally (a larger proportion of incoming sound is unaffected by the interference tube's shenanigans), they aren't as heavy at the end of a boom or a pole, and they're less critical as to how they're aimed. Long shotguns definitely sound crappier than short ones if the sound source isn't exactly captured on axis.

Below the transition frequency, the tube has only a negligible effect on sound waves, and the microphone works just as an ordinary directional microphone of some kind--often a supercardioid. To behave any differently, it would have to incorporate a multi-capsule array and/or digital signal processing--neither of which this particular mike has.

Sanken is a leading manufacturer of multi-capsule shotguns, with narrow pickup patterns that go down to lower frequencies than conventional, single-capsule shotguns can offer. Leading examples are the model CS-3e and its stereo counterpart, the CSS-5. But this new little mike doesn't have either digital or multi-capsule technology. So it may be a nice little stereo mike, but its forward-facing element can hardly be considered a shotgun microphone in any usual sense. It has a more or less normal sort-of-hypercardioid-ish pattern.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 12:24:18 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: New Sanken M-S stereo shotgun mic coming in June
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2019, 03:33:55 AM »
is interference tube an absolute value or relative to capsule size. im thinkin gof dpa 4080 cards with their ~3/4" interference tube and 4098/99 supercards with their ~1.5" tube. both use the ~1/4" capsules of course
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small: MK4/4V > CMR > V3 or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K/R07/PCM-A10/Oade Warm 661/DR100-MKIII

smaller: 4061/4099 CORE or 4011/4018V> d:vice MMA



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shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

Offline DSatz

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Re: New Sanken M-S stereo shotgun mic coming in June
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2019, 08:00:06 PM »
Very sorry for the delay in replying. The operating principle of the interference tube is entirely based on the sound wavelengths, and isn't relative to the capsule size.

As I said, the principle of the shotgun microphone can't be miniaturized, as long as the medium of transmission is uncompressed air at normal temperatures.

--best regards
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 12:23:36 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

 

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