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Author Topic: DVD-Audio and SACD  (Read 1169 times)

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Offline ts

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DVD-Audio and SACD
« on: May 28, 2019, 11:52:46 AM »
Over the weekend I grabbed some DVD-AUDIO discs and SACD discs at an estate sale for cheap. Believe it or not I still have a Denon 2910 in my 2 channel setup. I used to use it for playback of 24 bit stuff that I would archive to DVD-A. I can’t remember the last time I fired it up before this past weekend. I put on a commercial source and nothing. No sound. I have the Denon connected to my receiver via optical cable. I grabbed one of my recordings and it played fine like it always did. So after some googling I found that the only way to listen to commercial stuff is to use the analog outs on the Denon. Some copyright issues. ::)

Any work around? Is this it? Is this why both formats are dead? Or is listening via analog outs no big deal. I don’t get it.  :help:
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Offline heathen

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Re: DVD-Audio and SACD
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2019, 12:09:10 PM »
Over the weekend I grabbed some DVD-AUDIO discs and SACD discs at an estate sale for cheap. Believe it or not I still have a Denon 2910 in my 2 channel setup. I used to use it for playback of 24 bit stuff that I would archive to DVD-A. I can’t remember the last time I fired it up before this past weekend. I put on a commercial source and nothing. No sound. I have the Denon connected to my receiver via optical cable. I grabbed one of my recordings and it played fine like it always did. So after some googling I found that the only way to listen to commercial stuff is to use the analog outs on the Denon. Some copyright issues. ::)

Any work around? Is this it? Is this why both formats are dead? Or is listening via analog outs no big deal. I don’t get it.  :help:

It's possible to rip these and then listen to the rips however you want.  I have a player that will do it but I haven't gotten around to giving it a whirl yet.  They can be found fairly cheap and some quick Googling will give you the specific models to look for (as well as how-to guides).  That's one possible solution, at least.
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Offline fobstl

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Re: DVD-Audio and SACD
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2019, 12:09:25 PM »
I have an older Marantz player with DVD audio and SACD playback. I bought a new receiver recently and I also forgot about the analog out only for these formats when I tried some DVD audio disks. Same result, silence. If I recall correctly that was all about the copy protection and that the only way to play back was through analog. Luckily I only have a few DVD audio disks so wasn't a big deal for me.

Offline ts

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Re: DVD-Audio and SACD
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2019, 01:30:24 PM »
I have an older Marantz player with DVD audio and SACD playback. I bought a new receiver recently and I also forgot about the analog out only for these formats when I tried some DVD audio disks. Same result, silence. If I recall correctly that was all about the copy protection and that the only way to play back was through analog. Luckily I only have a few DVD audio disks so wasn't a big deal for me.

What about HDMI as long as the receiver has it. My receiver does not have HDMI but an adapter could fix that. Will HDMI pass the signal?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 06:17:08 PM by ts »
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Offline morst

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Re: DVD-Audio and SACD
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2019, 02:07:59 PM »
What about HDMI as long as the receiver has it. My r over does not have HDMI but an adapter could fix that. Will HDMI pass the signal?
HDMI supports HDCP copyright restricting tech on video, so I doubt it.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection
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Re: DVD-Audio and SACD
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2019, 02:41:18 PM »
If you want a player that will send the actual data signal (DSD, etc) you have to pay a pretty penny: https://www.psaudio.com/products/directstream-memory-player/
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Offline H₂O

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Re: DVD-Audio and SACD
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2019, 10:58:07 PM »
on a 2910 you need to use the analog outs.


3910 has hdmi (audio for DVD-V or 24/48 DVD-A) and D.Link (digital PCM for DVD-A, DSD for SACD, etc) - to get these to work you need to update to the latest firmware - note that it does support DSD and PCM over Firewire on older firmwares


Nothing is passed on the optical or coax outs on these units above 16/48 from what I remember


I have a 3910 that I grabbed at an estate sale and run it analog 5.1 to a marantz reciever without issue for SACD and DVD-Audio stereo and multichannel


I ran D'Link to a 3808ci beforehand without issue


I am going to grab a Marantz UD5007 at somepoint - this unit supports multichannel DSD SACD and multichannel DVD-A (high bitrate) over HDMI that would mate nicely with my Marantz reciever - used they sell in the $150-300 range
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 11:04:10 PM by H₂O »
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Offline ts

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Re: DVD-Audio and SACD
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2019, 11:59:21 AM »
on a 2910 you need to use the analog outs.


3910 has hdmi (audio for DVD-V or 24/48 DVD-A) and D.Link (digital PCM for DVD-A, DSD for SACD, etc) - to get these to work you need to update to the latest firmware - note that it does support DSD and PCM over Firewire on older firmwares


Nothing is passed on the optical or coax outs on these units above 16/48 from what I remember


I have a 3910 that I grabbed at an estate sale and run it analog 5.1 to a marantz reciever without issue for SACD and DVD-Audio stereo and multichannel


I ran D'Link to a 3808ci beforehand without issue


I am going to grab a Marantz UD5007 at somepoint - this unit supports multichannel DSD SACD and multichannel DVD-A (high bitrate) over HDMI that would mate nicely with my Marantz reciever - used they sell in the $150-300 range

Thanks H2O. So for us technologically impaired, since my integrated does not have HDMI I’m basically stuck with analog outs or would a HDMI to optical converter work? That Marantz is certainly not out of the question price wise, but I’m not really looking to replace my integrated and I could easily lose the 2910.
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Offline heathen

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Re: DVD-Audio and SACD
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2019, 12:15:08 PM »
on a 2910 you need to use the analog outs.


3910 has hdmi (audio for DVD-V or 24/48 DVD-A) and D.Link (digital PCM for DVD-A, DSD for SACD, etc) - to get these to work you need to update to the latest firmware - note that it does support DSD and PCM over Firewire on older firmwares


Nothing is passed on the optical or coax outs on these units above 16/48 from what I remember


I have a 3910 that I grabbed at an estate sale and run it analog 5.1 to a marantz reciever without issue for SACD and DVD-Audio stereo and multichannel


I ran D'Link to a 3808ci beforehand without issue


I am going to grab a Marantz UD5007 at somepoint - this unit supports multichannel DSD SACD and multichannel DVD-A (high bitrate) over HDMI that would mate nicely with my Marantz reciever - used they sell in the $150-300 range

Thanks H2O. So for us technologically impaired, since my integrated does not have HDMI I’m basically stuck with analog outs or would a HDMI to optical converter work? That Marantz is certainly not out of the question price wise, but I’m not really looking to replace my integrated and I could easily lose the 2910.

Either way you're still going to be using the DAC in your player, and if you go optical out from your Denon you'll end up going through two DACs because the "raw" SACD/DVD-A data won't be coming out of your Denon.  It'll be Denon DAC > optical/HDMI > integrated amp's DAC.  You could try both and see what sounds best to you, but personally I wouldn't be inclined to add another DAC into the mix.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
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Offline H₂O

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Re: DVD-Audio and SACD
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2019, 03:36:09 PM »
Either way you're still going to be using the DAC in your player, and if you go optical out from your Denon you'll end up going through two DACs because the "raw" SACD/DVD-A data won't be coming out of your Denon.  It'll be Denon DAC > optical/HDMI > integrated amp's DAC.  You could try both and see what sounds best to you, but personally I wouldn't be inclined to add another DAC into the mix.


This is correct - it all depends on where you want to convert from digital to analog.  Also you need to understand your receiver as if you run analog you want to make sure your receiver is pushing the signal directly to the amplifier circuit instead of going through the AD-DA for processing.  Many receivers have a feature or setting to do this - in the Denon/Marantz world they call it Pure Direct (although this term is used more generally as in no processing of the signal before the amp section). 


In general passing the DSD or PCM over HDMI can simplify your cabling but depending on the DAC in your Receiver it may sound different.


Many receivers don't support DSD over HDMI and DSD is only now being supported with DoP on Toslink or Coax SPDIF - No receivers I have heard of support DoP though.  There are HDMI Audio strippers and inserters but all that I have seen seem to be intended to handle situations where your equipment can't handle audio on HDMI - they may not be designed to handle hi bitrate audio.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 03:39:24 PM by H₂O »
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Offline ts

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Re: DVD-Audio and SACD
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2019, 05:07:31 PM »
Would this work:

http://www.ambery.com/hdautodisand.html

Looks like I can run that Marantz HDMI out thru this box using the coax spdif out into coax input on my receiver.
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Offline heathen

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Re: DVD-Audio and SACD
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2019, 05:43:39 PM »
Would this work:

http://www.ambery.com/hdautodisand.html

Looks like I can run that Marantz HDMI out thru this box using the coax spdif out into coax input on my receiver.

Check this out: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/sacd-cd-bd-connection-to-preamp-question.340785/
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031 | AT AE5100 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline ts

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Re: DVD-Audio and SACD
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2019, 06:09:52 PM »
Would this work:

http://www.ambery.com/hdautodisand.html

Looks like I can run that Marantz HDMI out thru this box using the coax spdif out into coax input on my receiver.

Check this out: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/sacd-cd-bd-connection-to-preamp-question.340785/

Ha ha. That’s funny. The guy is just like me. Doesn’t want to use analog outs when he has a perfectly fine digital input on his receiver. I guess we both don’t get it. :facepalm:
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Offline heathen

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Re: DVD-Audio and SACD
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2019, 09:30:11 PM »
Yeah, these are the type of bizarre problems that arise from proprietary formats.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031 | AT AE5100 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline H₂O

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Re: DVD-Audio and SACD
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2019, 11:31:01 AM »
Would this work:

http://www.ambery.com/hdautodisand.html

Looks like I can run that Marantz HDMI out thru this box using the coax spdif out into coax input on my receiver.


Doubt it would support higher res audio then 24-48 - it doesn't state what bit and sampling rates it can support and it's 2 channel PCM - it does support PCM derived compressed surround formats such as DTS, etc)


These units are typically meant for bandaids not high res audio playback


The analog outs on your 2910 should be fine for playback is there a reason you want to use digital?
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