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Author Topic: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.  (Read 6257 times)

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Offline heathen

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2019, 06:57:34 AM »
recording made with internals on deck that was $150 new (Tascam DR-2D), which I much prefer to any Sony digital recorders....the internals deck actually outperformed the $500 mics this night.

if you're on dime, quality samples are in the comments.

it's all about what you know, and how you utilize it.


http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=652570

Ignore this man, he’s more than slightly retarded.

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Nothing shows a new taper what a classy bunch we are quite like an ad hominem attack.
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2019, 07:15:39 AM »
Agreed on the recorder. R07 and DR05 will both do the job just fine. As would the new A10
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Offline ycoop

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2019, 04:12:18 PM »
recording made with internals on deck that was $150 new (Tascam DR-2D), which I much prefer to any Sony digital recorders....the internals deck actually outperformed the $500 mics this night.

if you're on dime, quality samples are in the comments.

it's all about what you know, and how you utilize it.


http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=652570

Ignore this man, he’s more than slightly retarded.

Come on, retarded? Really?
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Offline Ben Turnbull

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2019, 09:23:33 PM »
So, no one has recommended Countryman B3 mics. Not as expensive as DPA 4060 but they're the same size, have slightly more robust cables and sound just fine. They have a good max SPL and come in high and normal sensitivity ratings.

Unless you've read a bit more now since your post, you may still be wondering about a few things. I recommend you start reading some of the posts found in the TS Knowledge Base Archive. Take a topic heading... and read. Absorb what you can. Re-read what you don't get. Ask a question when you're stuck. Pick another topic. Rinse and repeat. Eventually you will become familiar with the concepts and some of the jargon. The puzzle will begin to take shape.

The more basic and general knowledge you gain, the better you will understand all the "moving" parts of making a good recording. You will start to understand what impacts the creation of a good recording. Some of that might end up being tied to the cost/quality of the gear. But starting out can be hard if your initial budget is too low and your expectations are too high. In the end it can come down to making some significant compromises in gear. To off set those, you learn or find ways to put yourself in the best sonic spot you can.

So read with an open mind, save as you go and when you're ready to buy you will be able to do the best work you can. Then give it some time to become a hobby or something else.

Good Luck
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2019, 10:33:19 PM »
So, no one has recommended Countryman B3 mics. Not as expensive as DPA 4060 but they're the same size, have slightly more robust cables and sound just fine. They have a good max SPL and come in high and normal sensitivity ratings.

how do those do on high spl on PIP?

lookin at some budget mates for the ICD-UX560https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=192831.0
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Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2019, 12:45:01 AM »
So, no one has recommended Countryman B3 mics. Not as expensive as DPA 4060 but they're the same size, have slightly more robust cables and sound just fine. They have a good max SPL and come in high and normal sensitivity ratings.

how do those do on high spl on PIP?

lookin at some budget mates for the ICD-UX560https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=192831.0

I ran the b3's (b3>M10) for a solo Ryan Adams show (acoustic) and they were fine for that. I tried another time for a normal volume show and it was too much for the M10's PIP.

https://archive.org/details/radams2012-10-29.b3.flac24
« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 12:51:57 AM by Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B) »
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Offline Ben Turnbull

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2019, 08:04:31 PM »
My PIP experience w/the M10 is that the B3s, at least the ones I have, like a little more power. I switch to the high sensitivity*. The mics come in two sensitivity ratings, generally described as wireless or phantom powered. The former are rated at 140 dBA SPL while the phantom get a 10 dBA bump. Bought new, they're about half the cost of DPA 406x units. Check them out here.

* Part of taping is knowing your gear and any limitations that might be exposed under stressful conditions. In our game, the sound source, the proximity to it and the volume one might expect will dictate which gear kit you take to the show or how the one you have will perform. I don't do "metal" shows but some string bands or that jazz drummer's kick might test me. So I scoot close or sit not so close as need be. (While it's not a perfect analog, I tend to think about sound waves behaving as light. The closer you are the brighter a light seems to be... the further back, for the same light, not so much.)

The PIP of the M10 I think is something like 2.5v. If you think you're show will be killer loud, put a battery box (or a small preamp) ahead of the recorder to protect the mics. Nothing replaces experience and experimentation to help cement these variables in your understanding of the game.  Good luck.
Only seeing two shows a month now... None at The Fine Line.
-My name is Ben, and I'm an AQhaulic ranting hysterically in my dotage ...
Read "Toward the End of Time" by Updike to know my name sake.
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Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2019, 08:21:18 PM »
The PIP of the M10 I think is something like 2.5v. If you think you're show will be killer loud, put a battery box (or a small preamp) ahead of the recorder to protect the mics. Nothing replaces experience and experimentation to help cement these variables in your understanding of the game.  Good luck.

I've been using a battery box ever since a couple of bad experiences (13 years ago now) where I ended up with what should have been great recordings plagued with distortion. Yes, it's an extra item, but it's smaller than my recorder and never gets a second look from security (in my experience, anyway), so I'd rather be safe than have to trust my guesswork at SPLs.

Offline Ben Turnbull

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2019, 11:02:48 PM »
Well, running a BBox won't hurt, and if it's designed correctly, won't add any noise. Your experience is just that: Your gear, your venues, your music... you know what works for you. That's not a problem or unusual. And... you get good tapes.   :coolguy:

Only seeing two shows a month now... None at The Fine Line.
-My name is Ben, and I'm an AQhaulic ranting hysterically in my dotage ...
Read "Toward the End of Time" by Updike to know my name sake.
Official Archivist for Jazz Central Studios, MinniMN
DPA4021/SKM140/NakCM1k/AT4051a/ADK A51s/Countryman B3/ATes943/SPc4(och)/S'lux s502... >
TinyBox OT> PCM-M10/DR-680/R4/T+mod UA5 needs attention

Offline morst

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2019, 05:19:51 AM »

* ..So I scoot close or sit not so close as need be. (While it's not a perfect analog, I tend to think about sound waves behaving as light. The closer you are the brighter a light seems to be... the further back, for the same light, not so much.)
That is CORRECT, the "cube-square" or Inverse Square law indicates that light and sound do behave in a similar fashion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law
Quote
In photography and stage lighting, the inverse-square law is used to determine the "fall off" or the difference in illumination on a subject as it moves closer to or further from the light source. For quick approximations, it is enough to remember that doubling the distance reduces illumination to one quarter;[9] or similarly, to halve the illumination increase the distance by a factor of 1.4 (the square root of 2), and to double illumination, reduce the distance to 0.7 (square root of 1/2).


Sound in a gas
In acoustics, the sound pressure of a spherical wavefront radiating from a point source decreases by 50% as the distance r is doubled; measured in dB, the decrease is still 6.02 dB, since dB represents an intensity ratio.
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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2019, 10:00:01 AM »

* ..So I scoot close or sit not so close as need be. (While it's not a perfect analog, I tend to think about sound waves behaving as light. The closer you are the brighter a light seems to be... the further back, for the same light, not so much.)
That is CORRECT, the "cube-square" or Inverse Square law indicates that light and sound do behave in a similar fashion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law
Quote
In photography and stage lighting, the inverse-square law is used to determine the "fall off" or the difference in illumination on a subject as it moves closer to or further from the light source. For quick approximations, it is enough to remember that doubling the distance reduces illumination to one quarter;[9] or similarly, to halve the illumination increase the distance by a factor of 1.4 (the square root of 2), and to double illumination, reduce the distance to 0.7 (square root of 1/2).


Sound in a gas
In acoustics, the sound pressure of a spherical wavefront radiating from a point source decreases by 50% as the distance r is doubled; measured in dB, the decrease is still 6.02 dB, since dB represents an intensity ratio.
We r getting way OT, but from my psychoacoustic days, we measured and found textbooks which say: while measuring a PA system from stage there is approximately a 6db drop in Sound Pressure Level (SPL) for every 10 feet of distance. (This is rule of thumb, not pure scientific, as specific frequencies will start dropping off more than 6dB per 10 feet at longer distances).
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 11:24:57 AM by rocksuitcase »
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Online aaronji

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2019, 10:31:44 AM »
SPL and distance are inversely proportional. Double the distance, halve the SPL (-6 dBSPL). Halve the distance, double the SPL (+6 dBSPL).

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2019, 11:24:28 AM »
ack- I edited my post, it should have been 6dB per 10 feet; or more accurately, the formula Aaronji said Double the distance, halve the SPL (-6 dBSPL). Halve the distance, double the SPL (+6 dBSPL)
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2019, 12:56:19 PM »
in a room there is the reverberation radius where reflected sound makes all volume levels not decay according to the inverse square law
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Offline morst

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Re: Newbie here, wanna start taping but don't know where to start.
« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2019, 03:52:56 PM »
in a room there is the reverberation radius where reflected sound makes all volume levels not decay according to the inverse square law
Yeah- that is true too. Should we start an Inverse Square law thread?
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