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Author Topic: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre  (Read 1723 times)

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Offline seashore

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3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« on: August 16, 2019, 12:32:55 PM »
Sorry for my lack of technical knowledge, but we all have to start somewhere. I have, until now, recorded music using a pair of omnidirectional or cardioid microphones. I am considering purchase of a mix-pre-3 machine and intend to use it primarily in the same way. Unlike my current recorder this accepts, as indicated by its name, up to three microphone inputs. I understand that if three microphones are attached, the recorder will display the level of sound being from each plus the overall level of sound in the right and left channels. How does the machine know which of the XLR inputs you wish to regard as the left signal and which for the right signal and how does the input from the 3rd microphone combine to make the overall left and right signal. As you will tell, I have never used a mixer! Thank you!

Offline old and in the way

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2019, 01:40:00 PM »
the mix pre 3 will due a stereo mix of all three channels or you can do a mid side recording using a figure 8 mic and left right channels . You can do a left right card and mixed in an omni on the third channel . works pretty good . the mix pre 3 will due 5 channnels total using the 3.5 mm input .ive never used all configurations since i have a sd788t ssd that can handle more inputs. but i use the mix pre 3 quite a bit and get excellent pulls . just experiment1

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2019, 02:36:21 PM »
You can program which channels go to the L/R mix. I do not use this function (on my Mixpre6) and just do mixdown in post for both simplicity and to save battery and card space.
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Offline jb63

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2019, 02:38:41 PM »
Wait... you can get 5 channels out of the mixpre 3?
this is definitely not normal

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2019, 02:41:05 PM »
Wait... you can get 5 channels out of the mixpre 3?

That's when counting the L/R mixdown as 2 channels
Mics: nbobs/480+ck61/62/63; C568EB; MKE2
Pre: FP24
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Offline aaronji

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2019, 03:43:22 PM »
Use each channel’s “pan” control to set left and right. That is, pan the left pointing mic left and the right pointing mic right. The third mic will likely be panned center (that is in both channels). If I understood the OP...

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2019, 04:04:51 PM »
I don't use a Mixpre myself, but I'll try to help-
One can record the 3 XLR inputs as 3 separate ISO channels (ISO=isolated, each input to its own monophonic channel), as well as recording a stereo mix made up of any combination of all 5 inputs (3 XLR inputs + the stereo minijack input for an additional 2 channels.  To record the minijack stereo input separately from the mic inputs, one would route only the minijack stereo input to the stereo mix track, and NOT route the 3 microphone inputs to the stereo mix.  The result will be 3 monophonic ISO files + one stereo mix file which contains just the minijack input signal.
^
MixPre users, please correct me if this is not accurate.

You can do a left right card and mixed in an omni on the third channel ... just experiment

Or flip that- try left right omnis (spaced 3' or more) + a center cardioid into ch3. Makes for a considerable improvement IME ;)
If you have SBD, that can take the place of the center cardioid.
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Offline GDfan

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2019, 05:07:51 PM »
I ran 2 Neumann 184s that were Din(a) and a AKG c314 set to Hyper cardoid facing directly at the stage with the MixPre3, left and right still have good separation and middle is clearer.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2019, 05:30:41 PM »
^ Good center clarity is the primary idea behind the use of a directional microphone in the center, rather than a single omni.  Combine that with L/R directional mics indoors or wide-spaced L/R omnis outdoors.
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Offline morst

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2019, 02:29:17 AM »
I have a MixPre6. It can record "8 channels" but only 6 "ISO" channels aka Isolated channels. The other two are the Mix.


If I was a podcaster, or doing a live feed for a professional job, I would use the Mix.
But, I am not, so I don't. I turn off recording to the mix tracks in software. I only need the raw channels for my live show archiving.


It's distracting to see the mix channels hit the PEAK lights on the phone app, but it's fair warning.
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Offline perks

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2019, 12:02:33 PM »
^ Good center clarity is the primary idea behind the use of a directional microphone in the center, rather than a single omni.  Combine that with L/R directional mics indoors or wide-spaced L/R omnis outdoors.

I have a MP-3 that I have not started experimenting with yet so I’m very interested in learning more about utilizing the 3rd channel. I bought the recorder to use as a 2 channel all in one hoping I’d like the preamps and a>d enough to have another tiny footprint option and could leave the external pre at home. But the 3rd channel is intriguing. If I’m capturing an ORTF stereo image wont the 3rd channel collapse the stereo image?
Mics: Schoeps MK5, Schoeps MK41, AT853u (C,SC,H,O), DPA 4061
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Naiant PiPsqueak, Church Ugly, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
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Online ycoop

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2019, 01:42:21 AM »
I don't use a Mixpre myself, but I'll try to help-
One can record the 3 XLR inputs as 3 separate ISO channels (ISO=isolated, each input to its own monophonic channel), as well as recording a stereo mix made up of any combination of all 5 inputs (3 XLR inputs + the stereo minijack input for an additional 2 channels.  To record the minijack stereo input separately from the mic inputs, one would route only the minijack stereo input to the stereo mix track, and NOT route the 3 microphone inputs to the stereo mix.  The result will be 3 monophonic ISO files + one stereo mix file which contains just the minijack input signal.
^
MixPre users, please correct me if this is not accurate.

You can do a left right card and mixed in an omni on the third channel ... just experiment

Or flip that- try left right omnis (spaced 3' or more) + a center cardioid into ch3. Makes for a considerable improvement IME ;)
If you have SBD, that can take the place of the center cardioid.

I’m not an MP3 user but I’m close to 100% certain that you can only record a total of 3 channels with it.
Mics: Avantone CK-1s, AT853 c+o
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Offline seashore

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2019, 11:27:28 AM »
Thank you for your many replies. You have cleared things up no end!

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2019, 12:45:04 PM »
If I’m capturing an ORTF stereo image won't the 3rd channel collapse the stereo image?

Yes, unless the ORTF configuration is modified the additional contribution from the center-panned center microphone can make the recording more monophonic and center-heavy (unless it happened to be lacking center image stability and weight to begin with).  To counter that you'll want to space the Left/Right cardioids more widely, or angle them more widely, or a some combination of both.  How much more?  A good rule of thumb is about twice as much spacing or twice as much angling, or half as much of both, as you'd use for the single pair.

ORTF represents an "pre-optimized" 2-channel microphone configuration with the aim of producing a balanced stereo image, ambient reverberant pickup qualities, and direct-sound clarity on its own.  Same goes for NOS, DIN, etc.  All of those are optimized 2-channel stereo microphone arrangements, and the introduction of additional microphones in close proximity messes with that pre-baked optimization.  Same goes for how far omni are space. Generally the need for figuring precise spacing is less critical with omnis, but its still best to try and get twice as much spacing between omnis when you place a third microphone (or a coincident pair) in the center between them, as long as you can arrange to do so.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2019, 12:56:19 PM »
I’m not an MP3 user but I’m close to 100% certain that you can only record a total of 3 channels with it.

It can most definitely record 3 ISO channels plus a stereo mix track at the same time.  That's more than 3 channels.  For instance, one can record the 3 XLR inputs directly to ISO channels and also record a mix of those same inputs to the stereo mix track.  That a total of 3 inputs but 5 recorded channels. 

[edit], see Morst's post above concerning the MPixpre6
I have a MixPre6. It can record "8 channels" but only 6 "ISO" channels aka Isolated channels. The other two are the Mix.
Mixpre3 features the same behavior, but with less inputs [/edit]

The question is if the stereo minijack input may be routed to the mix track exclusively, while the 3 XLR inputs are sent to the ISO channels but not routed to the stereo mix track.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 02:22:07 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

 

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