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Author Topic: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre  (Read 1797 times)

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Offline mnm207

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2019, 01:36:42 PM »
The question is if the stereo minijack input may be routed to the mix track exclusively, while the 3 XLR inputs are sent to the ISO channels but not routed to the stereo mix track.

The answer to this is no.


Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2019, 03:06:21 PM »
The question is if the stereo minijack input may be routed to the mix track exclusively, while the 3 XLR inputs are sent to the ISO channels but not routed to the stereo mix track.

The answer to this is no.

In that case I'm disappointed Sound Devices dropped the ball.  Especially if the MP6 and MP10 similarly lack this functionality.  If I were an SD user I'd request a firmware update which allows routing of the AUX/minjack input directly to the stereo mix bus.  This would improve flexibility dramatically for soundboard feeds and external preamps.

Quoted from the user manual- "In Advanced Mode, the MixPre-3 is configured as a five-channel recorder." to which I'll add.. yet is apparently unable to record more than 3 seperate input sources, with the possible exception of the USB input. 

Note that such functionality has been around in similar recorders from less prestigious manufacturers for a long time now. For example DR-680 is a 6-channel recorder that can record a total of 8 inputs separately if the mix track is leveraged that way.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 03:14:27 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2019, 03:10:56 PM »
Wait... you can get 5 channels out of the mixpre 3?

Out yes, In no.
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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2019, 04:27:56 PM »
In that case I'm disappointed Sound Devices dropped the ball.  Especially if the MP6 and MP10 similarly lack this functionality.  If I were an SD user I'd request a firmware update which allows routing of the AUX/minjack input directly to the stereo mix bus.  This would improve flexibility dramatically for soundboard feeds and external preamps.

MP6 can record all 6 of its inputs (4 combos & a stereo mini jack), plus the (useless to me) mix track. They call it an 8 channel recorder, but it's only got 6 that do anything unique!
Similarly, MP10 can handle 8 XLR and two mini inputs for a total of ten.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2019, 04:38:50 PM »
MP6 can record all 6 of its inputs (4 combos & a stereo mini jack), plus the (useless to me) mix track.

It's really unfortunate the mix track was not made more useful this way.  This should be firmware correctable if SD wished to do so.
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Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline kuba e

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2019, 05:11:01 PM »
I am very surprised too. A big pity that it is not possible to use the mix track for jack in. SD should remedy this.

Here is my little experience for those who starts to record near spaced pair and center mics. I am using a near spaced pair with a center mic only when recording stealth. My difficulties arise during mixing. I don't have good listening skills, it isn’t easy for me to assess all positives and negatives when adding the middle microphone. Mostly I overhear the negatives at the first listening. Also, recording of third channel costs some effort, so I tend to use it. I don't want to throw it in the trash. But in the few cases I was recording in this configuration, I used only a single pair in the end. I didn't mix in the third microphone. Single near spaced pair sounded more natural itself and the third microphone was causing a little bit of comb filtering too. Sometimes, I did small adjustments of the stereo by Mid / Side manipulation. These are small changes as opposed to adding the middle microphone, but it can help a little bit too.

Gutbucket's advice is golden. I've never had a problem with center microphone when using bigger spacing and angling.

« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 05:14:00 PM by kuba e »

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2019, 06:16:39 PM »
Single near spaced pair sounded more natural itself and the third microphone was causing a little bit of comb filtering too.

This gets back to what Perks was asking about.  Ideally one needs to modify any standard 2-channel stereo microphone configuration to compensate for the addition of the center microphone.

The content from the center microphone must differ sufficiently from the content of the other two channels so that there isn't too much monophonic build up nor audible comb filtering problems when the center is routed Left and Right and mixed with those channels. 

The comb filtering thing is essentially the stereo>mono downmix compatibility thing, but 3>2 channels rather than 2>1 channel.  It's also what the 3:1 rule in intended to address when placing multiple microphones which will be summoned together in front of a group of singers or horns.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline aaronji

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2019, 10:32:10 AM »
This should be firmware correctable if SD wished to do so.

I doubt you will see this anytime soon. The way I interpret it, SD was putting some distance between the MixPre-3 and the MixPre-6 with this, uh, "feature". If you could use all 3 XLRs plus the 1/8" on the Mixpre-3, as you can with the MixPre-6 and -10, you would end up with a MixPre-5, with only one XLR input separating the 3 from the 6. A lot of people would probably opt to save the $250 difference and sacrifice one input...

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2019, 10:55:45 AM »
Yes I agree.  Apologies for this OT aside, but one of the philosophical problems I have with SD is that this type of thing carries through most of their lines.  For instance, they never provide preamps on all the primary input channels.  To record 6 phantom powered mics into a Mixpre 6 requires an outboard preamp for 2 of those channels, etc.  The 744 four channel analog input recorder included only 2 preamp input channels, the 788 eight channel analog input recorder only 4[edit- I was mistaken on this one, see below..] They make quality gear, but it always seems somewhat hobbled in this way by design.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 10:58:06 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline aaronji

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2019, 11:10:24 AM »
^ Yes, it's a little strange. With the MixPre series, I tend to think of them as a 2-, 4-, or 8-track recorders with 1 or 2 "bonus tracks"...

Offline jb63

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2019, 11:42:05 AM »
(Snip) one of the philosophical problems I have with SD is that this type of thing carries through most of their lines.

Exactly!
This is why I never ended up with a mixpre or a 744, I just read and read and the more I read the more confused I was at what they were making. So far the mixpre 6 looks like the best product for multiple channels. If you only ever want 2 channels then their products make perfect sense.
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Offline dactylus

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2019, 09:59:04 AM »
Yes I agree.  Apologies for this OT aside, but one of the philosophical problems I have with SD is that this type of thing carries through most of their lines.  For instance, they never provide preamps on all the primary input channels.  To record 6 phantom powered mics into a Mixpre 6 requires an outboard preamp for 2 of those channels, etc.  The 744 four channel analog input recorder included only 2 preamp input channels, the 788 eight channel analog input recorder only 4.  They make quality gear, but it always seems somewhat hobbled in this way by design.

The 788t does provide preamps on all 8 primary input channels.  The 788t and the 788t-SSD are now both discontinued.   The 788t-SSD was just recently discontinued by Sound Devices...


Analog inputs 1-4 on XLR connectors and analog inputs 5-8 on TA3 connectors, are the primary connections into the recorder. These inputs accept balanced or unbalanced mic- or line-level inputs. Gain is controlled by the front panel Input Gain Pots.

The 788T has eight inputs and twelve record tracks. Inputs can be analog or digital sources. Analog inputs 1 through 4 are on 3-pin XLR connectors; inputs 5 through 8 are on 3-pin TA3 connectors.  Digital AES3 inputs 1-8 use the DE-15 (D-Sub) connector.

Phantom power (48 volts) can be activated individually, for each analog input on. Phantom power can be used for both mic- and line-level inputs. Enable or disable Phantom Power in the Input Settings Window using the Tone key to select 48V (phantom power for mic level only), 48VL (phantom power for mic- and line-level), or Off.



« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 04:30:53 PM by dactylus »
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Offline jb63

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2019, 08:27:02 PM »
THAT is why I wanted a 788t instead of a 744! But that's mighty expensive! I'd do it, though, for the right price. How long before a 788t goes under $2000?
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2019, 11:01:15 AM »
The 744 four channel analog input recorder included only 2 preamp input channels, the 788 eight channel analog input recorder only 4.

The 788t does provide preamps on all 8 primary input channels.

Thanks for correcting me on this! (I've edited my post above)

Knowing that, I'd love to pickup a 788.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline dactylus

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Re: 3 channel recording with mix 3-pre
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2019, 12:23:18 PM »
The 744 four channel analog input recorder included only 2 preamp input channels, the 788 eight channel analog input recorder only 4.

The 788t does provide preamps on all 8 primary input channels.

Thanks for correcting me on this! (I've edited my post above)

Knowing that, I'd love to pickup a 788.

^
Agreed!  There are a few 788's available now on eBay, JW Sound, Reverb. 
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