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Author Topic: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming?  (Read 30681 times)

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Offline Amir

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming?
« Reply #90 on: September 06, 2019, 02:42:44 PM »
SD support just got back to me.
Here's their initial response. If I get any follow ups I'll post them to.

Thank you for contacting Sound Devices. I will certainly pass this feedback along to our engineering team for evaluation, though I cannot promise if or when these features would be added.

Thanks,
Daniel
Sound Devices, LLC

Thanks. At least it's good to know that my request, courtesy of your action, has reached them. Let's see what they might cook in the future.

Best,
Amir

Offline voltronic

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming?
« Reply #91 on: September 06, 2019, 06:00:08 PM »
I accidentally posted this to the other MixPre thread.  It's more appropriate here:


Here are two good discussion threads on JWSound you might all be interested in.  Paul is active on the first, and Jon Tatooles (also of SD) is active on the second:

https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/34175-the-new-mixpre-ii-are-here/&
https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/34174-floating-point-v-fixed-point-wav-files/&


In the second thread above, Jon linked a page on the SD site where we can now hear some music recorded in 32-bit float on the MixPre 10 II, at 3 vastly different levels:
https://www.sounddevices.com/noise-in-32-bit-float/


Paul, if you are reading this, I request that you please do same with some very dynamic piano music.  I know that is right in your wheelhouse.
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Offline willndmb

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming?
« Reply #92 on: September 06, 2019, 08:39:36 PM »
Hi all,

Would it be possible for you to send the following to SoundDevices' Tech Support team on my behalf? Since I don't have the MixPre-6 II at the moment, I can't send it without a serial number via their support contact form. My request is related to implementing an accessibility feature for the visually impaired via a future firmware update.
............
Dear SoundDevices tech support representative,

Hope this finds you well.

My issue is that the MixPre-6 II doesn't provide audio messages, via headphones, to assist the visually impaired with the operation of the device. As such, making changes to its menus and settings is quite tricky and challenging for those who have little or no vision.
When a USB keyboard or a controler is connected to the MixPre-6 II, it would be quite useful to hear audio prompts, via headphones, upon pressing keys and keyboard shortcuts. Otherwise -- and as a visually impaired person, I can't comfortably utilize such a capable and robust device. In short, I want audio and speech prompts, possibly via a future firmware update, which -- if enabled -- would allow me to alter most or all of the device's settings via my USB keyboard or -- if applicable -- via a controler, independently.

Hope SoundDevices can implement this suggestion which would be a tremendous boon to the visually impaired.

All the best
............
Thanks beforehand for your assistance.
great question/request!
Do you have a device now that does prompts like this?
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Offline justink

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming?
« Reply #93 on: September 06, 2019, 10:01:09 PM »

Quote
If you happen to record at a very low level and you raise the volume in postproduction that extra resolution should help.
^
What extra resolution?  This is the recurring claim which no one has been able to back up.  Please explain or point us to a technical explanation for this.. other than a gut-feeling "that's how it seems like it should work", which seems to be the only basis for the claim thus far.

No animosity intended by the way, I'm only trying to get to the bottom of what seems to me to be a strawman argument supporting this rather bold claim.

Barring a more detailed technical explanation, I suppose the only way to really know is that someone who gets their hands on one of these units is going to have to run parallel 24-bit fixed and 32-bit float recordings at very low level, normalize, A/B them, null test, etc.  I don't see simultaneous 24-fixed and 32-float recording as an option in the MixPre II manual, but it is an option on the (still not released) Zoom F6.

i think you would see the difference at the opposite.

run the 24 bit peaking around -6 and then the 32 bit rarely going beneath -6.
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Online jerryfreak

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming?
« Reply #94 on: September 06, 2019, 10:17:36 PM »
it does not record directly to flash drives, but can back files up to them after the fact
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Offline Amir

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming?
« Reply #95 on: September 06, 2019, 10:58:37 PM »
great question/request!
Do you have a device now that does prompts like this?
Thanks. Not that I use it much as its preamps are quite noisy and I don't like the way it performs some tasks, but my Olympus LS-100 has a feature which, when enabled, will read menu names, settings and the status of altered items back to me as I navigate around them. It also reads battery prompts and some, if not all, system messages. Of course, its recording-related prompts are delivered via beeps. Looking at what Olympus did in the past, this seems to be fairly simple in that audio prompts can be recorded and chained to menu names/settings. It's also worth mentioning that some of the newer Olympus recorders also have such a feature for the visually impaired, but the LS-100 was their best recorder which was equipped with it. Hope SoundDevices can follow suit as its MixPre devices are both more complicated and far more professional.

Best,
Amir

Online jerryfreak

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming?
« Reply #96 on: September 07, 2019, 07:43:17 PM »
currently out of 13 cards tested only 2 have sustained writes from front to back without errors at mixpre6 (v1) maximum bitrate of 4.5 MB/sec

I hope SD takes this issue seriously or its gonna be a lot of bad press when mixpre6-II and 10-IIs bump up their bitrate with 32 bit

currently the only card they can endorse gives 80 minutes at max channels/bitrate on a mixpre-6 II and 55 minutes on a mixpre-10 II.
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Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming?
« Reply #97 on: September 07, 2019, 08:23:27 PM »
currently out of 13 cards tested only 2 have sustained writes from front to back without errors at mixpre6 (v1) maximum bitrate of 4.5 MB/sec

I hope SD takes this issue seriously or its gonna be a lot of bad press when mixpre6-II and 10-IIs bump up their bitrate with 32 bit

currently the only card they can endorse gives 80 minutes at max channels/bitrate on a mixpre-6 II and 55 minutes on a mixpre-10 II.

Though in general I have had an easier time with Zoom recorders on powering and card use than with the SD633, the manual for the upcoming Zoom F6 (also 6 ISO tracks plus L/R mix) notes:

192 kHz cannot be selected when the recording mode is Float (32bit) and the LR track is on.
When 192 kHz is selected, Dual (16+32bit) and Dual (24+32bit) cannot be set.

And the F8n also has the following:

When 192 kHz is selected, L/R tracks will not be recorded. The Input Delay and Output Delay are also disabled. Moreover, Auto Mix, Ambisonic Mode, and Input Limiter > On/Off > On (Advanced) cannot be set.

So maybe Sound Devices has to convert this from a bug to a feature.

I am currently testing my MixPre-6 II at 32 bit float, 6 tracks + L/R at 96kHz, which is all I will ever use.

Jeff

Online jerryfreak

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming?
« Reply #98 on: September 07, 2019, 09:00:35 PM »
I am currently testing my MixPre-6 II at 32 bit float, 6 tracks + L/R at 96kHz, which is all I will ever use.

Jeff

can you take one for the team and test your card at 192k/8 channel and report to that thread?

thanks
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Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming?
« Reply #99 on: September 07, 2019, 09:12:59 PM »
I am currently testing my MixPre-6 II at 32 bit float, 6 tracks + L/R at 96kHz, which is all I will ever use.

Jeff

can you take one for the team and test your card at 192k/8 channel and report to that thread?

thanks

When my current (2.5 hour) test - half a 64GB SD card mirrored to a 32GB flash drive - is done I'll run at 192k/6+2 for 2.5 hours to the 64GB card alone.  I should have a 128GB USB flash by Monday for longer tests.

Jeff

Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming?
« Reply #100 on: September 07, 2019, 09:55:56 PM »
Interesting discussion of MixPre II and 32 bit float on JWSound board.  Here is the SD patent:

patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/a7/6b/f5/77e31e68cca8b7/US9654134.pdf

And here is an interesting take on SD/Zoom/Zaxcom (and maybe sonosax):

"As I understand the Zaxcom patent for two gain stage recording is that it they do it in a very rudimentary way. Pretty much do it at one level, then do it another level and depending on if one exceeds the other or not perform and switch between stages. 
 
"The SD solution is to perform at least two and in their implementation three gain stages and ADC in parallel. Use all three by themselves, merge into two or scrap one if corrupt. 

 
"And then do process their vectors to create a final stream in 32-bit float. 
 
"I really would like to see how Zoom is doing it in the F6. 
Or if the sudden manufacturing problem is somehow related to someones patent."

Jeff

Online jerryfreak

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming?
« Reply #101 on: September 07, 2019, 10:02:41 PM »
I am currently testing my MixPre-6 II at 32 bit float, 6 tracks + L/R at 96kHz, which is all I will ever use.

Jeff

can you take one for the team and test your card at 192k/8 channel and report to that thread?

thanks

When my current (2.5 hour) test - half a 64GB SD card mirrored to a 32GB flash drive - is done I'll run at 192k/6+2 for 2.5 hours to the 64GB card alone.  I should have a 128GB USB flash by Monday for longer tests.

Jeff

so it does mirror to flash in real time? thats news...

i can send you any of these cards ive tried to test in your unit, real easy SASE style


One point that might be relevant to your test is that the vast majority of my failures have been on the back half of the cards' capacity. most run 30-60% of card capacity then seem to crash at an ever-shortening interval
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Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming?
« Reply #102 on: September 07, 2019, 11:19:43 PM »

so it does mirror to flash in real time? thats news...



Not quite.  It copies as soon as a file is closed.  The MixPre-6 II starts new files every 4 GB, when one segment closes it is copied.  With 8 files at 96kHz this was every 23 minutes.  When I stopped recording that 96kHz test tonight, there were ~700MB left to copy over, so I had to keep the power on another few minutes until /Copying/ on the USB screen of the bottom status bar shut off.  Just luck that I didn't lose anything Friday and could do the file transfer to my computer from the USB flash (SD card access requires removing the L battery sled, which is a nuisance and probably a source of future repair bills).  I may end up doing the transfer from the SD card anyway, as I see some chatter on the net that a complete formatting in a computer, not a quick formatting, is better for card performance.  I have been doing this with Tascam DR-2d cards (used for 4 channel 96 kHz recording) at the instruction of Gutbucket, who has been my guru on this 4 channel gem.  It may only be a superstition, but it works so far for me.



 

Offline justme

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming?
« Reply #103 on: September 08, 2019, 02:27:38 AM »
I guess the easiest way to get a "real" live backup is to hook up an iOS device on the USB, map in iOS as ISO's plus mix or stereo pairs + mix and record the all channels @96KHz.
Not perfect but might save one from some card corruption anxiety. :)

Online jerryfreak

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming?
« Reply #104 on: September 08, 2019, 03:17:47 AM »
depending on your mix, a simple 2-track out to any of the handhelds like a sony A10 would save your ass if recording stops due to buffer

thats if you were doing multiple stereo pairs like most tapers, a little less useful if you are doing isolated instruments unless you want to put in the time to do a decent mix on the fly

8 tracks usb out to a small laptop could be a backup but thats cumbersome and the opposite direction we should be working imo
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