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Author Topic: Does R88 do time code syncing?  (Read 478 times)

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Offline MakersMarc

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Does R88 do time code syncing?
« on: September 11, 2019, 12:40:06 PM »
I’ve never run a multi track deck, Will this resolve time delays when doing matrix?

Thanks!
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Offline if_then_else

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Re: Does R88 do time code syncing?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2019, 01:19:19 PM »
It depends on whether or not the mics have been set up in the same spot (e.g. with AUD+SBD or FOB+onstage matrix recordings there is most likely a small delay).

Edit: Screenshot of a SBD + 4ch-AUD matrix (at SBD cage) attached.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 01:54:55 PM by if_then_else »

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Does R88 do time code syncing?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2019, 03:31:37 PM »
You probably do not need timecode.  You won't need it if you are recording all sources to be matrixed onto the same recorder.

Quote
Does R88 do time code syncing?

R88 features timecode.  I've used an R88 a few times, but I never use timecode so I can't speak about its specific implementation in that recorder.

Quote
I’ve never run a multi track deck, Will this resolve time delays when doing matrix?
If you record all sources onto the same recorder, all of them will retain their original time relationships with each other and will not drift apart in timing.  You do not need timecode for that.

If you record all sources onto the same recorder and need to delay one source to time-align it with another, you will need to make the time-alignment adjustment somehow, but the sources will not drift apart relative to each other.  The typical example is delaying a SBD-feed to time-align it with an AUD source to accommodate for the time it takes for sound to travel past the SBD mics and reach the AUD mics.  That's usually easiest and best done afterward on the computer when you can shift one source forwards or backwards in time to exactly match it up with the other.    The R88 does provide variable input delay which can achieve the same if you can determine the appropriate delay between sources prior to recording. That delay feature is on inputs only, R88 does not provide delay options during playback. I never bother with that and just align things by eye and ear on the computer where I know I can get it just right.   You do not need timecode for any of this.

If the sources to be matrixed are not recorded onto the same recorder, the clocks inside the separate recorders can drift over time unless they are connected so that they share the same clock source.  Correcting for is drift over time is more complicated than simple time-aligning of files which otherwise share sync and do not drift over time.  This is the biggest chore which is eliminated by recording all sources to the same multichannel recorder or by recording to two recorders which share the same clock source and thus have no drift.  Time code is one way of sharing clock source between separate recorders. A few more common ways do do so in the taper world are Wordclock, digital SPDIF, and digital AES signal streams.  Timecode is typically associated with video production, and until recently was generally costly to implement and typically only found on pro gear and equipment targeting film and video production.

Time code differs from Wordclock, SPDIF or AES in a number of ways. One is that it can work in different modes, one of which is "free-running" without an actual clock connection between machines while the recording is being made.  That mode requires both recorders to have timecode and to have their clocks synced just prior to recording, after which they "free-run" on their own without communication with the other while recording, which keeps the machines in sync until the clocks eventually drift apart.   Better implementations use better clock sources which stay in sync longer before drifting.  Because the internal clock used for timecode is usually more precise than the clock source used for audio, this arrangement can provide better clock sync than two recorders which otherwise share no clock.  For that reason this mode may be interesting to tapers who are leaving one recorder at the soundboard and running another for microphones.

But the short answer is that as a taper you probably won't ever need timecode, even when doing complex multichannel stuff.
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Does R88 do time code syncing?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2019, 06:40:33 PM »
Thanks!
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Offline H₂O

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Re: Does R88 do time code syncing?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2019, 10:07:37 PM »
I’ve never run a multi track deck, Will this resolve time delays when doing matrix?

Thanks!


Time code is used to sync audio and video sources based on a time code (that is recorded in the meta data of the recorded file) but not syncing the word clock of the digital signal - it works at a higher level then word lock sync and allows you to line up packets of data based on the time offset.  Word Clock sync keeps each waveform or bit of data in sync across all digital device in the chain by synchronizing AD clocks and digital signaling across the digital bus.   Word Clock sync is only relevent when transmitting data on a digital bus.  Time Code information is stored in the meta data, and thus can be used directly in post processing - but again typically only in combined Video/Audio suites - note there are wireless Timecode syncing solutions as well.


You would only be using Time code if you where doing Audio/Video production.


If you want to run more then 8 channels that you want to mix later then you would want to sync word clocks between the two devices to remove jitter from the two signals


The R88 will both sync word clock and time code on it's BNC's


Your looking for Time Delay settings which I believe is available on some pro line recorders - I think the 744T supports very minimal delay settings between channels (I don't remember the amounts but could swear it wasn't enough to help with delay between soundboard and audience mics)
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Does R88 do time code syncing?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2019, 09:17:47 AM »
As I recall the available time delay on the R88 is up to 30ms or so per channel, equating to a max offset distance of around 34'. 

Here are how some common multi channel recorders I've owned or used extensively enough to be familiar with compare with regards to these things:
Roland R88 features Wordclock and Timecode via BNC, and up to 30ms input delay per channel.
Roland R44 and Tascam DR-680 feature Wordclock/SPDIF, but not Timecode.  Neither provide channel input delays.
Zoom F8 and f8N feature Timecode, but not Wordclock/SPDIF, and up to 30ms input delay per channel.

The SD machines, especially some of the newer models, may provide more delay and possibly post-record delay. I'm not certain as I've not used them extensively.
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Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

 

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