Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3  (Read 13743 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13666
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #120 on: December 31, 2019, 11:05:27 AM »
Thanks Noah!  Will be interesting to compare with rocksuitcase and kindms's OMT6 pull from the same night (I think).
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline kindms

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5196
    • The Breakfast
Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #121 on: December 31, 2019, 11:48:51 AM »
Thanks Noah!  Will be interesting to compare with rocksuitcase and kindms's OMT6 pull from the same night (I think).

correct. we were about 7-10 ft behind Noah maybe a little less than that.
AKG c426, AKG414 XLS/ST, AKG ck61, ck22, >nBob colettes >PFA > V3, SD MixPre >  TCM-Mod Tascam HDP2, Sony M10
Little Bear tube Pre >Outlaw Audio 2200 Monoblocks > VR-2's

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13666
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #122 on: December 31, 2019, 01:28:14 PM »
Gotcha, thx.  Double posting my comment made in the rigpics thread earlier this morning over here to continue the discussion..

On the OMT mics: we ran the 6 channel OMT into a DR680 using kindms 426 in hypercard XY this night 65' as the center. then the akg ck22 omnis spread 120cm and akg ck61's aimed at 45'/PAS about 60cm apart equidistant from the middle. The ck22s went into a Grace V2, the c426 into a Grace V3, and the ck61's went used the 680's pre-amp.

Is this the first you guys have tried this particular 6ch OMT combination?  I suspect you are really going to like what the part I've bolded above adds to the coincident center and wide omnis.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline EmRR

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 482
    • ElectroMagnetic Radiation Recorders
Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #123 on: January 07, 2020, 04:14:23 PM »
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=191953.msg2318816#msg2318816

The band was rehearsing at my studio before the gig, so I dropped the 3 channel horizontal B format array in the middle of them to experiment.  They were all facing each other in a circle. 

I settled on a 'best' stereo result, then enabled 3 more virtual mono patterns to get more mandolin, balance the kick drum out with the bass, and more of one of two electric guitars.  Those three have pretty heavy EQ (band-passed or LPF) and one is polarity reversed.    So many options you are easily confused. 

I can't get everything out of it, but pretty close.  Vocals were floor wedges only, and while there, are sorta equally in everything as a darker sounding background sound, can't really be pulled out. 


The gig had AB omni outriggers, and unfortunately, one of those reunion audiences that talked loudly the entire show.  I multi-tracked everything so can build a clean mix.   I'd have liked to use more room sound for realism, but not when it's audience talking!  Settling on a ambisonic pattern close to PAS short shotguns to minimize the crowd while getting some room feel.  I suppose if it was full ambisonic I'd try pointing it up at the ceiling for reverb bounce away from the crowd. 
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50, portable MOTU based multitrack DAW for client work

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13666
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #124 on: January 10, 2020, 10:51:55 AM »
^ That's cool.  I'd originally planned to hang the TetraMic from the center of a 10' x10' pop-up canopy for circled up campsite jams at music fests, but never actually got around to doing it.  However, and somewhat similar to what you mention doing, for a few on-stage/stage-lip recordings I dialed up a couple additional virtual pattern channels to better balance things in addition to the primary stereo-pair output.  It made me quite aware of the limits of first order pattern tightness, but I didn't have the ability to synthesize shotgun-like greater than 1st order hyper directionality.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13666
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #125 on: January 10, 2020, 10:54:02 AM »
I've been enjoying listening to the recent MSG Phish recordings during some late night work sessions this week, thanks guys!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13666
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #126 on: January 10, 2020, 11:43:07 AM »
I was checking Don Keele's papers on his website to see what he's been up to recently..
https://www.keele-omholt-technologies.com/papers.php

..and had to grin when I looked through this one from 2016- Use of Ground-Plane Constant Beamwidth Transducer (CBT) Loudspeaker Line Arrays for Sound Reinforcement
https://www.keele-omholt-technologies.com/papers/Keele-CBT-Paper-11-Sept.-2016-Use-of-Ground-Plane-CBT-Arrays-for-Sound-Reinforcement.pdf

In which he suggests using CBT arrays behind the performers in a way strikingly similar to the Dead's classic Wall of Sound. I read through but found no mention of the Dead's pioneering PA work, though it seemed tantalizingly close when he mentioned how it could compensate for poor array coverage problems of a small concert he came across in San Francisco's Presidio in 2009 and includes a photo of the clustered point-source PA setup with KFOG banner across the back of the stage. 

Granted CBT is different in important ways from traditional linear arrays such as the WOS and similar related (ie non-DSP managed) smaller-scale Bose type line arrays. It stems from declassified sonar beamforming advances made in the late 1970s, and definitely qualifies as an oddball speaker technique.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline kuba e

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 311
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #127 on: January 27, 2020, 12:46:56 PM »
I was listening to the interesting Grateful Dead matrix . The matrix is from 3 sources, sbd + two aud. Little disadvantage of the matrix is a less clarity. But it has great depth, the third dimension. I love how it is sounding. It remains me OMT with back pointed mics. We are trying to achieve the same effect.
https://archive.org/details/gd1991-06-09.128299.mtx.dusborne.flac16
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 12:50:33 PM by kuba e »

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2747
Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #128 on: January 27, 2020, 12:59:10 PM »
I recorded a show on Friday (Mike Dillon Band) with XY Sennheiser e614s (supercards) and wide-spaced omnis (DPA 4061s).  The Sennheisers picked up more direct sound and less of the crowd, so I decided to primarily use those.  The DPAs definitely picked up more of the bass, though, so I ended up doing a pretty drastic LPF before mixing in the DPAs.  Once they were all mixed together, the bass seems to have more stereo spread than the rest of the frequency range (the LPF was high enough that some of the sound can be localized).  I'm hoping  to have it all ready to share soonish.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline rocksuitcase

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6019
  • Gender: Male
    • RockSuitcase: stage photography
Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #129 on: January 27, 2020, 03:57:03 PM »
I recorded a show on Friday (Mike Dillon Band) with XY Sennheiser e614s (supercards) and wide-spaced omnis (DPA 4061s).  The Sennheisers picked up more direct sound and less of the crowd, so I decided to primarily use those.  The DPAs definitely picked up more of the bass, though, so I ended up doing a pretty drastic LPF before mixing in the DPAs.  Once they were all mixed together, the bass seems to have more stereo spread than the rest of the frequency range (the LPF was high enough that some of the sound can be localized).  I'm hoping  to have it all ready to share soonish.
\Oooh, can;t wait. Mike Dillon rocks! and any members of his band are typically talented as hell.
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E|DPA 4060 SK
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2747
Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #130 on: January 27, 2020, 05:51:14 PM »
I recorded a show on Friday (Mike Dillon Band) with XY Sennheiser e614s (supercards) and wide-spaced omnis (DPA 4061s).  The Sennheisers picked up more direct sound and less of the crowd, so I decided to primarily use those.  The DPAs definitely picked up more of the bass, though, so I ended up doing a pretty drastic LPF before mixing in the DPAs.  Once they were all mixed together, the bass seems to have more stereo spread than the rest of the frequency range (the LPF was high enough that some of the sound can be localized).  I'm hoping  to have it all ready to share soonish.
\Oooh, can;t wait. Mike Dillon rocks! and any members of his band are typically talented as hell.

He had Norwood Fisher from Fishbone on bass.  Unfortunately the sbd feed was a big fail and the mix in the room wasn't fantastic, but hey them's the breaks.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2747
Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #131 on: January 27, 2020, 08:50:48 PM »
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=193311.0

I'm curious what you guys think of this.  I'll reserve my own opinions for the time being.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline EmRR

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 482
    • ElectroMagnetic Radiation Recorders
Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #132 on: February 07, 2020, 07:26:22 PM »
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=193311.0

I'm curious what you guys think of this.  I'll reserve my own opinions for the time being.

No major complaints, seems like a pretty clear room representation. 
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50, portable MOTU based multitrack DAW for client work

Offline EmRR

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 482
    • ElectroMagnetic Radiation Recorders
Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #133 on: February 07, 2020, 07:31:27 PM »
Trying the same horizontal Ambisonic with AB again, AB120 this time (wider), and an added coincident shotgun.  Sure glad I played with LEGO's as a kid.









« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 09:43:26 PM by EmRR »
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50, portable MOTU based multitrack DAW for client work

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13666
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3
« Reply #134 on: February 10, 2020, 11:55:51 AM »
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=193311.0

I'm curious what you guys think of this.  I'll reserve my own opinions for the time being.

Sounds to me like a clear representation of a somewhat difficult room / PA mix, with early reflection energy cluttering direct sound first arrival.   In assessing that I sort of compare the portrayal of audience generated sounds dispersed throughout the room and the decay of the room sound itself, in contrast with the sound from the band through the PA.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.105 seconds with 57 queries.
© 2002-2020 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF