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Author Topic: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)  (Read 13730 times)

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Offline vanark

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #105 on: February 03, 2020, 03:30:10 PM »
If you were running at -12dB, why did you change your setup? If you are running 24 bit, that is a fine shoot to be.

Just wanted to run the gamut on this new deck. Been using the R09HR for 10(?) plus years. Was doing 24/96, this is pretty bad if you clip on the A10 and you get noise like that. 24/96 should have no problem with clipping.
What does running 24/96 have to do with clipping or not? Running 24 bit let's you run lower without fear of clipping so you can raise the levels without raising the noise too.
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #106 on: February 03, 2020, 03:57:22 PM »
Running 24 bit let's you run lower without fear of clipping so you can raise the levels without raising the noise too.

to an extent.

the noise floor of the A10 is closer to 16 bit than 24bit in resolution
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Offline alanisrox69

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #107 on: February 03, 2020, 04:10:50 PM »
Running 24 bit let's you run lower without fear of clipping so you can raise the levels without raising the noise too.

to an extent.

the noise floor of the A10 is closer to 16 bit than 24bit in resolution

Do you know if there is a comparison of the A10 vs R09HR noise floor?

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #108 on: February 03, 2020, 05:17:11 PM »
Running 24 bit let's you run lower without fear of clipping so you can raise the levels without raising the noise too.

to an extent.

the noise floor of the A10 is closer to 16 bit than 24bit in resolution

Do you know if there is a comparison of the A10 vs R09HR noise floor?

they are similar : http://www.avisoft.com/recorder-tests/

all those handhelds operate in a similar range, 70-115 dB dynamic range depending on gain. average around 90 95 dB in normal use (16 bit = 96 dB of dynamic range. 24bit =144 dB of dynamic range). so there is a slight advantage of using 24-bit, which can be close to negligible with levels peaking anywhere close to correctly (say above -20dB)
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Offline rastasean

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #109 on: February 06, 2020, 11:15:47 AM »
Came across this nearly year-old review of various recorders: Sony D100, A10, M10, D10 and an Olympus recorder.
https://mindful-audio.com/blog/handheld-recorder-review

He's recording nature so having quiet self noise is more important to him than it is for recording live music.
This is his recent youtube video about his technique for recording nature sounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-3BerSX5uQ&feature=youtu.be

edit...
The d10 could be the perfect recorder, if they allowed four channels simultaneously. The less expensive Tascam DR-40x records four channels but probably too noisy for this guy's work.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 11:20:41 AM by rastasean »
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #110 on: February 07, 2020, 11:09:53 AM »
Did you have the limiter turned on? That's what I've always used as a safeguard against clipping (on both M10 and A10), and it's served me well.
I tried the A10 without the limiter and it makes bad sounding peaks. With the limiter 0dB peaks don't sound bad at all.
For the record, I've run my M10 with limiter for about ten years.

I'm hearing the harsh peaks too. Boo.
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #111 on: February 07, 2020, 02:06:40 PM »
Seems like he beats up on the A10 for noise because of the built-in mics. I don’t see any thoughts on line-in with that device which we know works pretty well
Came across this nearly year-old review of various recorders: Sony D100, A10, M10, D10 and an Olympus recorder.
https://mindful-audio.com/blog/handheld-recorder-review

He's recording nature so having quiet self noise is more important to him than it is for recording live music.
This is his recent youtube video about his technique for recording nature sounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-3BerSX5uQ&feature=youtu.be

edit...
The d10 could be the perfect recorder, if they allowed four channels simultaneously. The less expensive Tascam DR-40x records four channels but probably too noisy for this guy's work.
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Offline vanark

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #112 on: February 07, 2020, 02:07:23 PM »
Isn't the solution to run more conservatively rather than push the levels close to 0 dB?
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at etree(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

Link to LMA Recordings

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Mics: Microtech Gefell M21 (with Nbob actives) | Church Audio CA-11 (cards) (with CA UBB)
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Recorders: Tascam DR-60D | Tascam DR-40 | Sony PCM-M10

Offline colargol

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #113 on: February 07, 2020, 02:14:09 PM »
Isn't the solution to run more conservatively rather than push the levels close to 0 dB?

That’s what I’ve been doing ever since I started recording in 24 bit... it works very well for my purpose, which is recording amplified live music.
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Offline rastasean

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #114 on: February 07, 2020, 03:26:47 PM »
Seems like he beats up on the A10 for noise because of the built-in mics. I don’t see any thoughts on line-in with that device which we know works pretty well
Came across this nearly year-old review of various recorders: Sony D100, A10, M10, D10 and an Olympus recorder.
https://mindful-audio.com/blog/handheld-recorder-review

He's recording nature so having quiet self noise is more important to him than it is for recording live music.
This is his recent youtube video about his technique for recording nature sounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-3BerSX5uQ&feature=youtu.be

edit...
The d10 could be the perfect recorder, if they allowed four channels simultaneously. The less expensive Tascam DR-40x records four channels but probably too noisy for this guy's work.

Right, mic-in line-in seems to work fine for him. I think he was just hoping for mics as quiet as the M10.
While reading over at https://www.reddit.com/r/fieldrecording/, many people seem to admire the D100. Not sure the D100 would be worth 1 1/2 times the price of the D10 without XLR.

Anyway, don't mean to derail this thread from the A10.
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Offline vanark

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #115 on: February 07, 2020, 03:37:19 PM »

it works very well for my purpose, which is recording amplified live music.

Indeed. Other discussion on the topic seems to border on mental gymnastics.
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at etree(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

Link to LMA Recordings

Link to Team Dirty South Recordings on the LMA

Mics: Microtech Gefell M21 (with Nbob actives) | Church Audio CA-11 (cards) (with CA UBB)
Pres: <empty>
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D | Tascam DR-40 | Sony PCM-M10

Offline jj69

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #116 on: February 17, 2020, 06:39:39 PM »
Quick question: Have any other PCM-A10 owners experienced the recorder's Right channel failing?  A friend and I were early adopters of the A10 - I assume we both got the first batch delivered from Japan.  About 4 months ago, my Right channel (Input jack only) began to fail.  First, the right channel gain was slightly lower than the Left, a few days later, much lower, and eventually completely dead.  Both channels worked fine through the internal mics - the problem is limited to the input jack. 

Now, my friend is having the same issue. 

Just wondering if this is a common with the A10?  Anyone else have this happen? 

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #117 on: February 17, 2020, 08:04:02 PM »
mine was a relatively early one as well... no issues so far

if its out of warranty, maybe ask doug if he can repair it?

its a shame that gear this functional for our purposes is manufactured to be disposable
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Offline dyneq

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #118 on: February 17, 2020, 08:22:42 PM »
Clean the plug and jack and report back.

Offline ol' dirty taper

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #119 on: February 22, 2020, 10:12:48 PM »
Having a playback error with the A10.

Recorded a 3.5 hour set last night and it split the track at 2hrs or so per usual, however the unit refuses to play the first track. The recording was fine when I plugged into a computer and pulled it from the sd card. Just thought it was worth noting. It would only play 2-4 seconds of the first part then skip to the second half. No idea what would cause this, but it was a bit worrying when I left the venue and wanted to listen to the set on the way home.

In the end the recording was there, just will not play from the unit itself.
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Pre : Shure FP24 / Sound Devices 302
Dec : Sony PCM-A10 / Sound Devices 702T
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