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Author Topic: can I run my kcy nbobs into a PFA> Shure FP24 without attenuators?  (Read 1223 times)

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Offline MakersMarc

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mics are Schoeps 41v/4v.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 02:19:48 PM by MakersMarc »
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Nicky mod Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

Home: the Stereo Hospital budget refurb rig: Lappie>DragonFly Cobalt/Red with Jitterbug>Nikko NR520 amp>B&W V202 speakers.

Offline noahbickart

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Re: can I run my 60v Schoeps PFA into a Shure FP24 without attenuators?
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2019, 12:27:07 PM »
Yes.

You're confusing phantom power voltage which runs from the deck to the microphone with the signal level from the microphone to the deck.

The PFA (like the cmc6, and cmc1, etc) converts the 48v phantom power to the 60v polarization the capsule needs to work.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, GAKables 10' & 20' 6-channel snakes, Darktrain 2 & 4 channel KCY and mini xlr extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6 I
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6 I, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mac Mini> Mytek Brooklyn+> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: iMac> Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: can I run my 60v Schoeps PFA into a Shure FP24 without attenuators?
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2019, 01:45:40 PM »
Yes.

You're confusing phantom power voltage which runs from the deck to the microphone with the signal level from the microphone to the deck.

The PFA (like the cmc6, and cmc1, etc) converts the 48v phantom power to the 60v polarization the capsule needs to work.

got it, thanks. so the proper question is whether Schoeps are too hot for the FP24?
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Nicky mod Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

Home: the Stereo Hospital budget refurb rig: Lappie>DragonFly Cobalt/Red with Jitterbug>Nikko NR520 amp>B&W V202 speakers.

Offline noahbickart

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Re: can I run my 60v Schoeps PFA into a Shure FP24 without attenuators?
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2019, 01:54:10 PM »
Yes.

You're confusing phantom power voltage which runs from the deck to the microphone with the signal level from the microphone to the deck.

The PFA (like the cmc6, and cmc1, etc) converts the 48v phantom power to the 60v polarization the capsule needs to work.

got it, thanks. so the proper question is whether Schoeps are too hot for the FP24?

correct, and if the answer is yes, feel free to use attenuators as long as they pass phantom power
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, GAKables 10' & 20' 6-channel snakes, Darktrain 2 & 4 channel KCY and mini xlr extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6 I
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6 I, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mac Mini> Mytek Brooklyn+> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: iMac> Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline perks

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Re: can I run my kcy nbobs into a PFA> Shure FP24 without attenuators?
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2019, 04:31:32 PM »
I’ve always run nbob/PFA’s into a SD MP2 with no attenuators and had no issues with clipping. I guess what your sound source is is going to make a difference but for normal PA volumes I’ve never had an issue.  Also I believe there are different output levels depending on if you run out of the 3.5’ out vs the XLR outs.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 04:41:10 PM by perks »
Mics: Schoeps MK5, Schoeps MK41, AT853u (C,SC,H,O), DPA 4061
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Naiant PiPsqueak, Church Ugly, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony PCM-M10 (x2), Tascam DR-07, Marantz PMD-661, Sound Devices Mixpre-3

Offline obaaron

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Re: can I run my kcy nbobs into a PFA> Shure FP24 without attenuators?
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2019, 06:55:55 PM »
I had an FP24 for a few years and if it’s going to be LOUD bring attenuators if you are close to the PA it will likely clip mine always did with gefells or AKGs don’t recall using it with my schoeps though
Mics:  Gefell M20,M21/sms2000/nbob | Schoeps MK4V/cmc6/nbob | AKG c460b/c480b/a60/Naiant actives - ck61,62,63,69 ;ck1,3,8;ck1x,2x,3x/MK46 | Neumann KM140/150/Nick Mod LC3/Naiant PFA| AT853, AT933 | CA-11c,o
Pres: Naiant Littlebox | Tinybox | BMod Edirol UA-5 | Church ST-9200
Recorders:  Zoom F8 | Tascam DR-680 | Tascam DR-60D | Sony PCM-M10
Video: Canon VIXIA HF R42

**ISO** -   Schoeps mk22 matched pair | Gefell M27’s |

Offline noahbickart

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Re: can I run my kcy nbobs into a PFA> Shure FP24 without attenuators?
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2019, 10:29:14 PM »
Btw, this is precisely why some tapers preferred the 48v pfa....
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, GAKables 10' & 20' 6-channel snakes, Darktrain 2 & 4 channel KCY and mini xlr extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6 I
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6 I, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mac Mini> Mytek Brooklyn+> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: iMac> Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline DSatz

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Re: can I run my kcy nbobs into a PFA> Shure FP24 without attenuators?
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2019, 04:34:59 PM »
Shure FP-24 = Sound Devices MixPre (early model). The early SD preamps had more input gain than necessary for high-output condenser microphones, especially when recording high sound pressure levels. So many of those models were designed so that if you switch on phantom powering for condenser microphones, it would automatically reduce the input gain by 10 dB.

That helped, though sometimes further attenuation was called for as well via external, in-line resistive pads. Those pads are a slight nuisance, but they're perfectly OK to use from a sound quality standpoint, since they reduce the microphones' self-noise and the ambient noise of the recording venue by the same amount as the useful signal, so the signal-to-noise performance doesn't suffer. (By the way, for best suppression of interference in your cables, those pads belong at the preamp inputs and not anywhere earlier in the signal chain.)

However, if you're using a non-standard powering/impedance conversion scheme and then feeding the signals into the preamp with the powering switched off, then the preamp is running at a more sensitive setting, so again there's a greater risk of input overload. In general if you find that you often have to set the gain controls on the preamp to very low settings, consider using a pair of balanced resistive attenuators at the preamp inputs.

Shure unfortunately took their simple, ultra-reliable, low-cost fixed attenuators and made them more complicated and expensive (~$45 each nowadays) than they need to be. Fortunately, some of the less expensive ones (Whirlwind for example, at half that price) are good (= well-shielded, reliable, and the series resistors on each side of the "H" pad match each other closely).

--best regards
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 04:46:58 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: can I run my kcy nbobs into a PFA> Shure FP24 without attenuators?
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2019, 03:11:55 PM »
Btw, this is precisely why some tapers preferred the 48v pfa....

Thanks all! Gonna stick with no pre. For now.😬😀
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Nicky mod Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

Home: the Stereo Hospital budget refurb rig: Lappie>DragonFly Cobalt/Red with Jitterbug>Nikko NR520 amp>B&W V202 speakers.

 

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