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Author Topic: Help with edit - RX7 crackling peaks  (Read 1346 times)

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Offline ol' dirty taper

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Help with edit - RX7 crackling peaks
« on: December 13, 2019, 03:37:49 PM »
I am using a newer (to me) preamp and I cannot determine if I maxed out my mics or the preamp. Nothing brickwalled, but I hear a crinkled sound at the peaks on a couple of my last recordings.

Setup was Beyerdynamic MC930 pair > Juicedlink RA333 > Sony PCM-A10

The Sony showed fine levels with the gain set at 1, I used the gain on the Juicedlink at around 75-80% on the dials. Not sure, maybe the JL box is just a poor choice for loud concerts, but it was fine taping Built To Spill a month ago.

Have tried using Izotope RX7 to get some of the noise down, which worked to a certain extent. I still need to eliminate a lot of the bass, but it does not seem to effect the crinkle/crackling going on when I have played with levels.

EQ/mastering has never been a strong suit of mine, do any of you with more experience have any input to give? Should I just consider this tape a loss?

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1xuROhxiSzB5x2JEnrNhYBECuxB_sAM7W?usp=sharing

I put a copy of the raw source and then also what RX7 output after some de-plosive/crackle/noise passes.

Thank you
Aaron
Mic : Beyerdynamic MC930 SS | Naiant X-X Omni Pair | Beyerdynamic TG L34C Pair | AT831s Pair (CA - HI SPL mod)
Deck : Sound Devices MixPre 6 | Sony PCM-A10
Play : Beyerdynamic DT990

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Help with edit - RX7 crackling peaks
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2019, 04:43:14 PM »
Sounds like preamp clipping to me, as those mics are rated to 125db. Does your pre not have a clipping indicator?

Also have you tried the de-clip function in RX7? It's saved me a few times.

That would be a write off to me if not repairable.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 04:48:05 PM by DavidPuddy »
Mics: nbobs/480+ck61/62/63; C568EB; MKE2
Recorders: MP6; A10

Offline ol' dirty taper

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Re: Help with edit - RX7 crackling peaks
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2019, 06:18:59 PM »
Sounds like preamp clipping to me, as those mics are rated to 125db. Does your pre not have a clipping indicator?

Also have you tried the de-clip function in RX7? It's saved me a few times.

That would be a write off to me if not repairable.

Hey man thanks for the reply. Would you select each clip separately or do larger sections? It really only effects a couple loud points in the show.

I'm pretty new to RX7, a few days in at this point.
Mic : Beyerdynamic MC930 SS | Naiant X-X Omni Pair | Beyerdynamic TG L34C Pair | AT831s Pair (CA - HI SPL mod)
Deck : Sound Devices MixPre 6 | Sony PCM-A10
Play : Beyerdynamic DT990

Offline if_then_else

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Re: Help with edit - RX7 crackling peaks
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2019, 02:05:46 AM »
Sounds like preamp clipping to me, as those mics are rated to 125db. Does your pre not have a clipping indicator?

Also have you tried the de-clip function in RX7? It's saved me a few times.

That would be a write off to me if not repairable.

Hey man thanks for the reply. Would you select each clip separately or do larger sections? It really only effects a couple loud points in the show.

I'm pretty new to RX7, a few days in at this point.

Hi,

Sounds like overloaded inputs to me...
It happened to me once with the JuicedLink RM222 when the recording of the support act turned out just fine (no bass player) and the recording of the main act was distorted (but not clipped).

In a nutshell: The JuicedLink preamps have a number of switches which can be used to attenuate the input signal.
Please see below for some quotations from my original conversation with JuicedLink's support from that time...

Quote
Hi gain is typically
for dialogue or fine audio detail.  Low gain setting is typically for
higher signal level environments, like a rock concert or something. 
Alternatively, you can put a pad in front of the preamp, and as long as
you have sufficient signal level coming from the source, it will not
effect the noise. Similarly, a MIC/LINE switch is a pad.

Quote
I'm not online right now to look at specs.  With a typical sensitivity
condenser mic (~20mA/Pa), the LO gain setting of the preamp provides
plenty of headroom.  If your mic is super sensitive, you could use the
HI gain and LINE settings.  You could always use an external attenuator,
if that is best.  In the field, you'll have to monitor with headphones
to verify you are not running into headroom.

Offline ol' dirty taper

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Re: Help with edit - RX7 crackling peaks
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2019, 03:18:41 PM »
Hi,

Sounds like overloaded inputs to me...
It happened to me once with the JuicedLink RM222 when the recording of the support act turned out just fine (no bass player) and the recording of the main act was distorted (but not clipped).

In a nutshell: The JuicedLink preamps have a number of switches which can be used to attenuate the input signal.
Please see below for some quotations from my original conversation with JuicedLink's support from that time...

Quote
Hi gain is typically
for dialogue or fine audio detail.  Low gain setting is typically for
higher signal level environments, like a rock concert or something. 
Alternatively, you can put a pad in front of the preamp, and as long as
you have sufficient signal level coming from the source, it will not
effect the noise. Similarly, a MIC/LINE switch is a pad.

Quote
I'm not online right now to look at specs.  With a typical sensitivity
condenser mic (~20mA/Pa), the LO gain setting of the preamp provides
plenty of headroom.  If your mic is super sensitive, you could use the
HI gain and LINE settings.  You could always use an external attenuator,
if that is best.  In the field, you'll have to monitor with headphones
to verify you are not running into headroom.

I just got a RM222, probably just going to sell it and the RA333 now. I spent the last day or so scouring forums and came across one user who commented that if he had his gain anywhere on or over 75% on the dial, his recordings would overload. I don't have headphones for live taping and haven't really wanted to carry them. Sucks since the gain on these boxes are so clean! Too bad they can't be upgraded somehow.

Settings are set as described, on low, mic setting, ran 12V phantom to power the mics. Think I am going to look for an older Sound Devices rig and avoid the overload issue altogether. If anyone has something for sale, please let me know.

I taped a 2 set show the following night and thankfully gave the prior night a listen, learned from the mistake and set the gain at about 40% on the Juicedlink and boosted the gain on my A10 to 10 or 12. No overloading but just some gain noise to remove.

DavidPutty, the Juicedlinks have a led meter for both lines. Only the micro version if_then_else mentioned does not have one, which now seems risky to me. Just picked one up because they are incredibly small and very clean gain, might just keep the RA333 for nature recordings.
Mic : Beyerdynamic MC930 SS | Naiant X-X Omni Pair | Beyerdynamic TG L34C Pair | AT831s Pair (CA - HI SPL mod)
Deck : Sound Devices MixPre 6 | Sony PCM-A10
Play : Beyerdynamic DT990

Offline if_then_else

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Re: Help with edit - RX7 crackling peaks
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2019, 03:12:47 AM »
Screenshot attached with the settings I used to use in the field /with the RM-222). These used to work fine - even for on-stage recordings. Alternatively, you could still try to switch from MIC to LINE or use an external attenuator.

Quote
DavidPutty, the Juicedlinks have a led meter for both lines. Only the micro version if_then_else mentioned does not have one, which now seems risky to me. Just picked one up because they are incredibly small and very clean gain, might just keep the RA333 for nature recordings.

Those meters are actually for the output - not for the XLR-inputs. So you wouldn't even notice if the inputs were overloading. Same thing as with the Sound Devices mixpres and some other preamps / field mixers. If you don't trust your settings, make sure to listen to what you're recording (not necessarily with full-sized headphones but rather with earbuds).

Moreover, the juicedLinks are draining 9V batteries pretty fast when using 48V phantom. 9V Li-Polymer rechargeables from iPowerUS (or any similar high-capacity LiPoly batteries recommended).

Offline ol' dirty taper

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Re: Help with edit - RX7 crackling peaks
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2019, 03:50:05 AM »
My settings are the same, thanks for helping me verify I didn't mess that part up.

So switching to line helps add a small pad?

Might have to just get some headphones. Would adding a mixer in front avoid the input overload?

I already got a set of 9V LiPoly rechargeable and they are lasting me about 7 hrs recording supplying 12V (6hr58min) and 3 hours at 48V. They are 600mAh batteries. I actually made a 9V battery adapter just in case I ever needed it to  allow for me to plug it in to external power.
Mic : Beyerdynamic MC930 SS | Naiant X-X Omni Pair | Beyerdynamic TG L34C Pair | AT831s Pair (CA - HI SPL mod)
Deck : Sound Devices MixPre 6 | Sony PCM-A10
Play : Beyerdynamic DT990

Offline if_then_else

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Re: Help with edit - RX7 crackling peaks
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2019, 04:09:51 AM »
So switching to line helps add a small pad?

According to information I got from Robert @ JuicedLink: yes.

Quote
Similarly, a MIC/LINE switch is a pad. [...] If your mic is super sensitive, you could use the HI gain and LINE settings

Might have to just get some headphones. Would adding a mixer in front avoid the input overload?

From my point of view, the main advantage of the JuicedLinks is: they're small (at least compared to the SD pre-amps) and add some clean gain. Probably not worth adding a mixer in front of it. Then, why not use a SD mixpre unit in the first place?

If the built-in pads don't resolve the issue for you, I'd add a dedicated attenuator / pad in front of the XLR-INs, e.g.:
https://www.canford.co.uk/CANFORD-IN-LINE-ATTENUATORS or
https://www.tritonaudio.com/airhead.html

Offline ol' dirty taper

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Re: Help with edit - RX7 crackling peaks
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2019, 04:48:32 AM »
I see what you're saying. The size is definitely what drew me to the Juicedlink.

The mics I use have a built in -15db pad that I've never had to use. Had a Marantz pmd660 I used to use my mics with and recorded some very loud shows with that brick.

From what I have read, the SD mixers wont or at least will take a lot more abuse before overloading.

I wanted to avoid a second recorder if possible and run into the A10, that's why I had not gone with a mixpre or anything similar. Ideally using the a10 as either stealth or for running open.

Guess I'll think on it, in my mind, if this is going to possibly clip, I'm ok sacrificing size for something that might not.
Mic : Beyerdynamic MC930 SS | Naiant X-X Omni Pair | Beyerdynamic TG L34C Pair | AT831s Pair (CA - HI SPL mod)
Deck : Sound Devices MixPre 6 | Sony PCM-A10
Play : Beyerdynamic DT990

Offline mepaca

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Re: Help with edit - RX7 crackling peaks
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2019, 12:40:19 AM »
You can turn the line in on the Sony but turn the preamp down. I believe there is a clipping reducer on RX7.

 

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