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Author Topic: 9V li-ion batteries  (Read 1758 times)

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Offline jerryfreak

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9V li-ion batteries
« on: January 07, 2020, 04:40:39 AM »
interesting, ive never seen these before. are cheap (cheaper than good nimh 9Vs) and have pretty high discharge currents

good data here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A06SPUF8i8
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Offline relefunt

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Re: 9V li-ion batteries
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2020, 05:46:38 PM »
I have been using the EBL batteries for some time and they work great. The price (22 USD for four, including a charger) is pretty good too:



https://www.amazon.com/EBL-Lithium-Battery-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B078HP76PG/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=EBL+9v&qid=1578437157&s=electronics&sr=1-4

« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 05:49:26 PM by relefunt »
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: 9V li-ion batteries
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2020, 03:20:36 AM »
just got them.. they weigh like nothing
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Offline perks

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Re: 9V li-ion batteries
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2020, 12:31:31 PM »
Not compatible with a 4 9V Nbox? I know I need to be careful when ordering the PowerEx's to ensure I'm getting the 9.6V version instead of the 9V version. The 9V rechargeable batteries wont power the Nbox the way a 9V Duracell copper top would.
Mics: Schoeps MK5's (matched), Schoeps MK41's (matched), AT853u's (C,SC,H,O), DPA 4061's
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Naiant PiPsqueak, Church Ugly, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony PCM-M10 (x2), Tascam DR-07, Marantz PMD-661, Sound Devices Mixpre-3

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: 9V li-ion batteries
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2020, 02:20:50 PM »
Not compatible with a 4 9V Nbox? I know I need to be careful when ordering the PowerEx's to ensure I'm getting the 9.6V version instead of the 9V version. The 9V rechargeable batteries wont power the Nbox the way a 9V Duracell copper top would.

not sure, nick is pretty secretive about the operating voltage of the nbox, but all of the rechargables (particularly the eight-cell 9.6V NiMHs) should have plenty of voltage as 9V alkaline in normal use go down on a relatively constant slope to 6.0V

depending on type, most rechargables have a flatter curve between 7.5 and 10V

more than you ever wanted to know (thanks to justme for turning us on to this site)
https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries9V/Common9VIndividualTest%20UK.html
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 02:24:47 PM by jerryfreak »
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Offline tim in jersey

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Re: 9V li-ion batteries
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2020, 03:01:57 PM »
I'd suggest these for use w/ the N-Box (any flavor):

https://www.amazon.com/Powerex-MH-96V230-230mAh-Rechargeable-Battery/dp/B00LT0LS92/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=powerex+9.6v&qid=1578599690&sr=8-8

Tried and true. Between Nicky, klitz, Ed Tyre, Chomps and myself we've made hundreds of recordings using these batteries in the N-Box...

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Re: 9V li-ion batteries
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2020, 03:11:00 PM »
I'd suggest these for use w/ the N-Box (any flavor):

https://www.amazon.com/Powerex-MH-96V230-230mAh-Rechargeable-Battery/dp/B00LT0LS92/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=powerex+9.6v&qid=1578599690&sr=8-8

Tried and true. Between Nicky, klitz, Ed Tyre, Chomps and myself we've made hundreds of recordings using these batteries in the N-Box...

Yes those are what I've been using too but I see there are so many more rechargeable 9V options than there were just a few years ago yet none appear to have the 9.6V like the PowerEx/Immedion and I suspect would be useless in a Nbox.
Mics: Schoeps MK5's (matched), Schoeps MK41's (matched), AT853u's (C,SC,H,O), DPA 4061's
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Naiant PiPsqueak, Church Ugly, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony PCM-M10 (x2), Tascam DR-07, Marantz PMD-661, Sound Devices Mixpre-3

Offline tim in jersey

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Re: 9V li-ion batteries
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2020, 03:26:27 PM »
I'd suggest these for use w/ the N-Box (any flavor):

https://www.amazon.com/Powerex-MH-96V230-230mAh-Rechargeable-Battery/dp/B00LT0LS92/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=powerex+9.6v&qid=1578599690&sr=8-8

Tried and true. Between Nicky, klitz, Ed Tyre, Chomps and myself we've made hundreds of recordings using these batteries in the N-Box...

Yes those are what I've been using too but I see there are so many more rechargeable 9V options than there were just a few years ago yet none appear to have the 9.6V like the PowerEx/Immedion and I suspect would be useless in a Nbox.

From what I recall Craig T and Ed had nothing but headaches w/ the rechargeable 9v. It wasn't until the 9.6v came out that there was a viable nimh rechargeable option...

Offline Craig T

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Re: 9V li-ion batteries
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2020, 07:42:04 PM »
Yes, the (much) older 9V NiMH wouldn't work in the 4x 9V powered NBox.  The 9.6V that Tim referenced worked fine in my original NBox and now my NBox-Platinum.

I'd suggest these for use w/ the N-Box (any flavor):

https://www.amazon.com/Powerex-MH-96V230-230mAh-Rechargeable-Battery/dp/B00LT0LS92/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=powerex+9.6v&qid=1578599690&sr=8-8

Tried and true. Between Nicky, klitz, Ed Tyre, Chomps and myself we've made hundreds of recordings using these batteries in the N-Box...

Yes those are what I've been using too but I see there are so many more rechargeable 9V options than there were just a few years ago yet none appear to have the 9.6V like the PowerEx/Immedion and I suspect would be useless in a Nbox.

From what I recall Craig T and Ed had nothing but headaches w/ the rechargeable 9v. It wasn't until the 9.6v came out that there was a viable nimh rechargeable option...
Schoeps cmc6/4v / Line Audio CM3, OM1 / ADK A51 / Church Audio CA-14
Naiant Tinybox v2.2 / NBox(P) / Apogee Mini-MP / Church Audio ST9200 / CA-UGLY
Sony PCM-M10 / Tascam DR-70D

Offline dactylus

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Re: 9V li-ion batteries
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2020, 08:52:53 AM »
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 08:55:56 AM by dactylus »
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Re: 9V li-ion batteries
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2020, 10:36:59 AM »
I'd suggest these for use w/ the N-Box (any flavor):

https://www.amazon.com/Powerex-MH-96V230-230mAh-Rechargeable-Battery/dp/B00LT0LS92/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=powerex+9.6v&qid=1578599690&sr=8-8

Tried and true. Between Nicky, klitz, Ed Tyre, Chomps and myself we've made hundreds of recordings using these batteries in the N-Box...

Yes those are what I've been using too but I see there are so many more rechargeable 9V options than there were just a few years ago yet none appear to have the 9.6V like the PowerEx/Immedion and I suspect would be useless in a Nbox.

From what I recall Craig T and Ed had nothing but headaches w/ the rechargeable 9v. It wasn't until the 9.6v came out that there was a viable nimh rechargeable option...

Same experience here using DPAs with CA-UGLY and a 4ch CA-UGLY2.

When I had the custom 4ch version built (which still uses a single 9V battery to power twice the channel count) it was time to replace the aging 9.6V Maha's I'd been using in the 2ch preamps anyway, so I tried a few different then newly available rechargeables which either failed rapidly or were associated with distortion of very low frequency content.  Granted this was early in the availability of alternatives and I suspect one or more I tried were not up to spec.  I wondered if it were voltage or current availability which was the limiting factor, but going back to using a new set of 9.6V Maha/PowerEx/Immedions eliminated the problem so I've stuck with them since.

Curious about lithiums, but wish they had a higher voltage option. Their light weight and high capacity are welcome if not really necessary for my uses.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
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Re: 9V li-ion batteries
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2020, 10:37:07 AM »
Anyone have insight into the possible metal-detection differences between lithium/NiMH/alkaline/other-chemisty "9V" batteries?
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: 9V li-ion batteries
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2020, 11:07:47 AM »
Anyone have insight into the possible metal-detection differences between lithium/NiMH/alkaline/other-chemisty "9V" batteries?

i dont think any of the electrode materials are metallic. not all 9Vs have metal cases however. were still talking a very small amount of metal, venues cant have their magnetometers set sensitive enough to pick up every belt buckle and zipper
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Re: 9V li-ion batteries
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2020, 11:43:46 AM »
^ Competent venue security anyway.  Recalling a Live Oak FL fest (a Wanee I think) where they were wanding everyone passing through the gate, which to my knowledge had never been done there prior.  The wands were set to such a ridiculously high sensitivity that two small stainless-steel cap-nuts I'd super-glued to a pair of foam earplugs set them off and I'd have to dig them out of my pocket each time I passed through the gate.  Even stuff like large rivets on folks jeans were beeping.  Pretty annoying.  Don't mind that it was an open taping fest and no one looked much beyond the zipper of gear bags on day one, and not in them at all day from two onward. 

Why the cap nuts? Exposed to loud low frequency content all day, I found I was bothered and fatigued by an annoying low frequency resonance I was able to attenuate by holding a I finger to the outside of each plug and lightly compressing them.  The addition of mass to the outside of the plug worked similarly, forming a constrained-layer-damping arrangement.  And it kinda looked like Frankenstein bolts, which was fun.

Note that some 9V batteries with plastic external cases contain stacks of internal cells with metal cases.  As you mention that's not much metal, but could be significant in combination with the metallic parts of the preamp itself.
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Offline kleiner Rainer

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Re: 9V li-ion batteries
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2020, 06:17:45 AM »
Hi all,

I have used rechargeable LiIon 9V blocks for multimeters for years without problems. First some technical points: a 9V alkaline block consists of 6 individual cells. The expected voltage range from non rechargeable cells is 9.6V no-load when fresh (1.6V per cell) to 6V when empty. A good circuit designer keeps that in mind together with the fact that there are batteries out with rather high internal resistance due to many batteries being built with pressure contacts between cells:

https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteryDisassembly9VAlkaline%20UK.html

A rechaegeable LiIon 9V block is built with two LiIon cells in series, together with a protection circuit:

https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteryDisassembly9VLiIon%20UK.html

Considering the voltage range of LiIon, we get 8.4V when fully charged to 6V when empty. The advantage is of course the lower internal resistance compared to primary cells. This becomes important when the load contains a dc/dc step-up converter (eg. for phantom power), because these tend to act as a constant input power load with a given output load. That means it tries to draw a higher current whenever the input voltage drops. To sum up the consequence: a battery with a higher internal resistance may seem empty much quicker than a battery with nominally lower capacity but lower internal resistance.

Here are tests of different 9V batteries:

https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries9V/Common9VIndividualTest%20UK.html

https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries9V/Common9Vcomparator.php

The comparator feature is especially nice. If you know the current consumption and undervoltage limit of your device this makes selection of the best battery easy.


Greetings,

Rainer
recording steam trains since 1985

 

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