Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Best way to record sound while shooting?  (Read 3625 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline stanh15

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Best way to record sound while shooting?
« on: July 26, 2004, 04:21:18 AM »
I've got a pretty big project coming up, I'm shooting a show for a band, using three camera, trying to figure out the best way to record the audio, should I try and run a dat of the band's soundboard?  I think the band records all of their live shows, so maybe I could just use that,  I guess they would let us use a slate before the show starts to get everything synced up...

jpschust

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Best way to record sound while shooting?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2004, 03:48:53 PM »
if its a one man operation (which i hope for your sake it isnt) just patching the board is an option, but id prefer to see a matrix mix at least so as to get some of that crowd ambience.  otherwise you are going to have this very odd, flat sound with the visuals of a concert.

Offline stanh15

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Best way to record sound while shooting?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2004, 07:47:40 PM »
no there will be three people running cameras, could you explain matrix mix to me... thanks.

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 9159
  • Gender: Male
  • I dream in beige.
    • sloppy.art.ink
Re: Best way to record sound while shooting?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2004, 07:55:54 PM »
matrix = sbd + mic mix. The mics will give the recording a bit more "sounds like you're there" sound as opposed to the flatness of the soundboard. mixing the board in will give the "clean" part. Does that make sense? Basically you're taking the clean board feed and mixing it with the mics which will give your recording more of a stereo sound + add more crowd noise.

Also if you're running a camera from the SBD area I'd consider running the mix to that camera. Then you can use that camera as a base and paste shots from the other 2 cams on top of that source in post.

What is it that you're recording and where? Maybe someone here would be willing to help you with the matrixing thing.

MIKE B
-24      -12              -6             0       OVER
||||||||||||||||||||||||||| []  
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||| []

||| MICS:  Beyer CK930 ~ Nevaton MCE400 ~ Countryman B3 |||
||| CABLES: Kind Kables |||
||| PREAMPS: Naiant Tinybox | Naiant Littlebox | Naiant IPA | Church BB |||
||| DECKS: Sound Devices MixPre6 | Sony M10 |||
||| PLAYBACK: Outlaw Audio RR2150 > Epos ELS8 |||
||| PHOTO: Sony a6000 | Sony 16-50 | Sony 55-210 | Rokinon 14mm | Rokinon 8mm |||
|||Concert History || LMA Recordings || Live YouTube Channel ||

Offline stanh15

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Best way to record sound while shooting?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2004, 04:01:14 PM »
That's what I think I'm going to do, as far as I know they record all of there shows, if not I can record it all with a dat, I think I can get their people to work on the sound but I can do that here if not, It will be in Richmond Va towards the end of September, I've talked to the band and they are really enthused about it, but I'm waiting to get the okay from their management, that's why I'm being so vague, when things become more concrete I'll probably start asking for help, I've shot mostly naritive film stuff and that's why I'm kind of clueless with a lot of this, I kind of know what to do, and the show will look great, I'm just worried about the sound, especially if it gets it's way to dvd


Also if you're running a camera from the SBD area I'd consider running the mix to that camera. Then you can use that camera as a base and paste shots from the other 2 cams on top of that source in post.

I might just use one of my smaller dv cams just to get that sound, and then use the other ones on top of that...

Offline ChitownTaper

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Best way to record sound while shooting?
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2004, 05:19:35 PM »
I shoot a lot of concerts and would HIGHLY recomend running the DAT as opposed to patching into the camera.  You never know what can go wrong when you're out in the field.  And it's better to have as many backups as possible.  If you run the DAT then that frees up the camera microphone to record from the SBD.  Granted it depends alot on how loud the music is bc if it's going to brickwall then there's no point in keeping it anyways.  But if there's a possiblity that the cam mic will get some decent audio, let it record as a backup.

Also, i'm sure there are tapers in that area and you could probably get one of them to come out.  Worst case you pay em $20 or something (I know it's frowned apon, but if it gets someone out it'll cover their beer or something).  That's your best bet.

If you have any other questions feel free to drop me an email (chitowntaperATcomcastDOTnet)  I'm in the middle of working on a number of video projects, including an 8 cam mix where I ran KM184>USBpre>Peak and matrixed it with a DAT in the house deck.  And as a backup I let all the cams record their own audio and ran AT853>Batt Box>MD. 

cal

Offline stanh15

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Best way to record sound while shooting?
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2004, 06:43:50 PM »
thanks for all of your help, I think what I might actually do is run sound from the board to two of the cameras, and then record off of a dat too, and then set up a stationary camera to get audiance sound, I guess that would cover it all, and there would have to be good sound in there somewhere...  But, is going from the board to a normal two xlr input phantom power into the dat going to be good enough sound?  If it turns out good there would be the possiblilty of it getting released, but that's thinking ahead, I know that I can make it look good, I'm just worried about it sounding good, and it probably will be loud as hell there...

Offline MattD

  • Taper Emeritus
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4641
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best way to record sound while shooting?
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2004, 09:33:13 PM »
But, is going from the board to a normal two xlr input phantom power ...

Do not run phantom power to a board. You are likely to get your ass kicked and sent a nice bill.
Out of the game … for now?

Offline stanh15

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Best way to record sound while shooting?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2004, 01:09:13 AM »
I didn't think about that till after a posted it, feel like a idiot, so, just run a digital i/o from the board to the dat?

Offline formengr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: Best way to record sound while shooting?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2004, 11:49:52 AM »
Cam mics are pretty lousy typically and as mentioned above tend toward brickwalling in loud events.  I've experimented (though not a show) w/my mics & b-box into my camcorder with success.  My cam does 16 bit/44.1 kHz as I believe most DV cams do, so it's cd quality audio you get on the tape. You can get a nice audience source this way.  My $0.02.
participo ergo sum
evrything in its right place

Offline stanh15

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Best way to record sound while shooting?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2004, 09:25:07 PM »
I think that's what I will likely do, just run from the board to the camera's xlr inputs, and also go from the board to a dat, just in case, and use one of the other cameras that's not going to be moving as a source with the audiance, it'll probably be a pd 150 and I've got a nice mic for it just to get the audiance pretty much to mix in underneath...

Offline dcwar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Best way to record sound while shooting?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2004, 01:22:28 AM »
My cam does 16 bit/44.1 kHz as I believe most DV cams do, so it's cd quality audio you get on the tape. You can get a nice audience source this way.  My $0.02.

Just a minor technical clarification... mini-DV / DV cameras only record 16/48kHz or 12/32kHz. If you record 16/44.1 the audio will have to be resampled at some point, either in your editing or audio software. So, for simplicity's sake, if you use an external audio recorder you should record your audio at 48kHz.

As for sync, a slate is a good idea - but there will be issues if the set goes over 40 or 60 minutes (depending on your dv cam's recording speed), and you have to reload tapes... and sync your cameras again. A multi-cam shoot can be 'easy' or hard depending on the equipment available to you, the expertise of your crew, as well as the skill of your editor.

dw

Offline Chad817

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 457
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Best way to record sound while shooting?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2004, 03:33:42 PM »
Cam mics are pretty lousy typically and as mentioned above tend toward brickwalling in loud events.  I've experimented (though not a show) w/my mics & b-box into my camcorder with success.  My cam does 16 bit/44.1 kHz as I believe most DV cams do, so it's cd quality audio you get on the tape. You can get a nice audience source this way.  My $0.02.

remember, just because a dv cam records at 16/48, doesn't automatically make it sound good.  Yes, it's cd quality, technically...but you will 99.9 % of the time have better sound from a seperate source.
studio projects c4 > edirol ua-5 [digi mod] > Microtrack II

laying around: sp cmc-4, power supply and jb3

Offline stanh15

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Best way to record sound while shooting?
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2004, 05:45:07 PM »
as I'm new to the audio side of things, can someone tell me what is going to be the best way, to go from their soundboard to the dat? 
yeah, were going to use a slate, and keep rotating the cameras as far as changing tapes goes so someone is always recording, it'll be about two hours, but if we can't slate the other tapes after we stop, I've synced up worse...

Offline ChitownTaper

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Best way to record sound while shooting?
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2004, 12:28:22 PM »
Do you know what kind of outputs the Soundboard will have for you?

You can go (i'm assuming you're using a sony portable dat, so you can sub the 1/8" for whatever input you might have on your deck if you're not): XLR > 1/8", RCA>1/8", 1/4">1/8", etc.  Remember to bring a cable for any situation if you're unsure, and remember a 2 female > 1 male input if you're going to be taking two mono signals and wanting to bring them to a stereo recording in the DAT.  (from what I've found around here RCA's seem to be what almost every board has, either through a send or through a tape output or whatever)

As for assistance with the syncing... Have the cameras zoom in on the drum kit for a minute when they load a new tape and then go back to shooting.  The drums are by far the easiest instrument to sync with and if you have that 1 minute of drum footage it will make your life WAY easier.

cal

Offline stanh15

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Best way to record sound while shooting?
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2004, 07:38:38 PM »
yeah I just have a sony tcd-d7 it has a 1/8 input so I could just go, xlr to 1/4 to a 1/8th adapter? 

so I could take this:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040810163638068210222023803836/g=home/g=home/search/bigpid/base_id/59771/
put a xlr to 1/4 adapter to a 18th adapter to the dat?  would that work, or are all the connections going to muck things up...

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.206 seconds with 43 queries.
© 2002-2018 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF