Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: weird fuzz sound - bad tapes?  (Read 2766 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

rabhan

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
weird fuzz sound - bad tapes?
« on: April 26, 2003, 08:29:12 PM »
hey now folks,

after taping a few shows lately, i have noticed this weird sound on 3 outta 8 of my most recently taped DATs. This sound appears once or twice on a few of the recordings. now, this sound happens to sound the same across all the tapes. the 3 dats in question all came out of the same box. i took a 4th outta the box, recorded about 45mins onto it and when i played it back, that tape was fine. i want to believe that my deck is okay. based on the fact that 3 dats have these flaws, and they came out of the same box makes me think that this is the case. as far as the tapes go, the new box contains 60s and my old box contains 90s. all the bad ones are from the new 60 box. when i recorded on the older 90s, they were all clean, no flaws. i also unpacked my tapes before i ran them. here is a small 4 sec 500K shn clip of the error, if you want to look at it in soundforge:

http://rabhan.com/audio/41803v3set2wtf.shn

1. could my deck have a transport problem? or any other problem?

2. should i throw out the new box? or see if the vendor will take them back or swap them out?

3. i got a few more shows this next week, i really dont have time to send it off for a checkup. however, if i dont run tapes out of that suspicious box and i get that error again, then my deck is in definate need for repair, correct?


Offline hippies

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 830
  • Gender: Male
  • "What we all need is a left hand monkey wrench."
Re:weird fuzz sound - bad tapes?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2003, 10:42:40 PM »
yes, correct.  

but it also might just be dirty head(s).  try dry cleaning, or wet cleaning if you're comfortable with the process.  sometimes a hunk of gunk can get lodged on a head for awhile, and then just as suddenly, attach to the tape rolling through and be gone.

it could be any number of things, from the tape to a transport to a head to alignment to God only knows.

try some tapes of different brands and see if you can narrow down the problem to the Deck.  good luck!

hope this helps.

~S

rabhan

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re:weird fuzz sound - bad tapes?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2003, 12:40:00 AM »
well, i have dry cleaning tape that i use prolly every 30-50hrs on average. however, if i look inside the d8, the head is as very shinny. i have maybe 400-500 hours on it and i think the head has a 5000 hour life, no? either way, after these 3 shows the week after next, i will know for sure, i will use some TDK pro dat 120s that i got at the jammy's. if these have anything like what i have from these 60m box for issues, then the deck is in need of repair. i cant see it any other way.

Offline hippies

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 830
  • Gender: Male
  • "What we all need is a left hand monkey wrench."
Re:weird fuzz sound - bad tapes?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2003, 05:26:31 AM »
just because the head is shiny doesn't nec. mean it's still in good shape, or properly aligned.  there is a pic of a worn head floating around somewhere.  it was a pic from Doug Oade showing a worn head against a good one.  if i remember correctly, to the naked eye, and especially an untrained one, a damaged head would be hard to spot.  

BTW: a head can last for 200 hrs, or it can last for 2,000.  kind of a crap-shoot.  i don't know if i would plan on getting 5,000 hrs on half sized heads.  'specially if running 90M tapes.  ;)  

i think you're on the right track with the DAT tape switch.  that 'should' tell the tale.  good luck.

~S    
« Last Edit: April 27, 2003, 05:33:20 AM by hippies »

Offline schoeps t00bes

  • Local Crew
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1371
  • Gender: Male
Re:weird fuzz sound - bad tapes?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2003, 06:36:43 AM »
scott's right.....
most sony portable decks (d8, m1, d100) will only get about 1,500-2,000 hours with regular cleanings.  
my first da-p1 got close to 5,000 hours with regular cleanings.  
it's all in the size of your heads!!!   ;)
good luck,
dave
Fuck MSG!!!

Offline greenone

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 9281
  • Gender: Male
  • Russian mics... strong like bull...
Re:weird fuzz sound - bad tapes?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2003, 11:13:25 AM »
BTW: a head can last for 200 hrs, or it can last for 2,000.  kind of a crap-shoot.  i don't know if i would plan on getting 5,000 hrs on half sized heads.  'specially if running 90M tapes.  ;)  

Isn't it motor burnout that you're worried about with 90-meter tapes? I mean... 5000 hours is 5000 hours whether you cut it into two-hour chunks or three-hour chunks...I can't see how an X-length tape would put more wear and tear on the *heads* than a Y-length tape.

--Dave

ps. Great name for that file, btw... "41803v3set2wtf.shn" ;D
Unofficial Blues Traveler archivist - glad to work on any BT or related recordings
archive.org admin - happy to upload tracked material to the LMA

Offline hippies

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 830
  • Gender: Male
  • "What we all need is a left hand monkey wrench."
Re:weird fuzz sound - bad tapes?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2003, 12:42:43 PM »
excess head wear is also caused by 90M tapes due to the deck not being able to 'properly' tension the tape.  the differences in tape tension can cause friction on the heads.  think about a chain and sprocket which is not properly tensioned.  or a belt and pulley which is loose and slipping.  if you look at the problem this way, i think it's easy to see how the added wear/ friction can occur.  

the transport/ drive motor is effected because of the added weight of the tape spools carrying 1/3 more tape (mass) than the deck was designed for.  the fact that pulling 90M tape will force the motor to do 1/3 more work each time a 90M tape is used, thus shortens the lifespan.  hours are not so much the factor here as is the excess load during actual working time.  

all that being said, i have run 90M tape for years.  i don't want cuts in my music, and am willing to wear the deck out faster as a result.  it's a tradeoff as i see it.

hope this helps.

peace

~S

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Is a 4 channel slut and
  • Trade Count: (121)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40568
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
Re:weird fuzz sound - bad tapes?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2003, 02:50:42 PM »
excess head wear is also caused by 90M tapes due to the deck not being able to 'properly' tension the tape.  the differences in tape tension can cause friction on the heads.  think about a chain and sprocket which is not properly tensioned.  or a belt and pulley which is loose and slipping.  if you look at the problem this way, i think it's easy to see how the added wear/ friction can occur.  

the transport/ drive motor is effected because of the added weight of the tape spools carrying 1/3 more tape (mass) than the deck was designed for.  the fact that pulling 90M tape will force the motor to do 1/3 more work each time a 90M tape is used, thus shortens the lifespan.  hours are not so much the factor here as is the excess load during actual working time.  

all that being said, i have run 90M tape for years.  i don't want cuts in my music, and am willing to wear the deck out faster as a result.  it's a tradeoff as i see it.

hope this helps.

peace

~S

good post scott... 8)

bean

+T also
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline greenone

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 9281
  • Gender: Male
  • Russian mics... strong like bull...
Re:weird fuzz sound - bad tapes?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2003, 04:09:41 PM »
Definitely good points...I hadn't thought about it that way. +T for the extra mile. :)

I'm also in the 90m boat - running on 6 years and probably well over 1500 hours on it between mastering and playback...it's started to misload every now and again but I always carry a coupla spares anyway so it hasn't been a huge deal yet - plus most of the time you can just rewind misloaded tapes and reload 'em...

--Dave
Unofficial Blues Traveler archivist - glad to work on any BT or related recordings
archive.org admin - happy to upload tracked material to the LMA

rabhan

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re:weird fuzz sound - bad tapes?
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2003, 04:16:36 PM »
what causes a deck to eat a tape, or just pull the tape out of the casing. i have had my d8 pull the tape out slightly on 2 or 3 occasions, but i was able to retrieve the tape without any tears in it. this has happened when i was attempting to load it.

?????

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Is a 4 channel slut and
  • Trade Count: (121)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40568
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
Re:weird fuzz sound - bad tapes?
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2003, 04:37:34 PM »
my deck goes into a seizure occassionally.....alsways when loading or unloading.... :'(

bean
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline John R

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • Posts: 10089
  • Gender: Male
    • www.tapers.org
Re:weird fuzz sound - bad tapes?
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2003, 01:02:38 AM »
excess head wear is also caused by 90M tapes due to the deck not being able to 'properly' tension the tape.  the differences in tape tension can cause friction on the heads.  think about a chain and sprocket which is not properly tensioned.  or a belt and pulley which is loose and slipping.  if you look at the problem this way, i think it's easy to see how the added wear/ friction can occur.  

the transport/ drive motor is effected because of the added weight of the tape spools carrying 1/3 more tape (mass) than the deck was designed for.  the fact that pulling 90M tape will force the motor to do 1/3 more work each time a 90M tape is used, thus shortens the lifespan.  hours are not so much the factor here as is the excess load during actual working time.  

all that being said, i have run 90M tape for years.  i don't want cuts in my music, and am willing to wear the deck out faster as a result.  it's a tradeoff as i see it.

hope this helps.

peace

~S

i too am fond of 90's if the right band is on stage.  90's will cause some heavy wear on a datman though epecially if you use it for ff/rew.  wears the brakes out too, a lot more momentum with a 90 than a 60.  which is the cause of the tape munching.

jr
we all live downstream.

Offline greenone

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 9281
  • Gender: Male
  • Russian mics... strong like bull...
Re:weird fuzz sound - bad tapes?
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2003, 06:44:40 AM »
what causes a deck to eat a tape, or just pull the tape out of the casing. i have had my d8 pull the tape out slightly on 2 or 3 occasions, but i was able to retrieve the tape without any tears in it. this has happened when i was attempting to load it.

My guess is it's not one specific thing, but more than once it's happened to me because of three things:
1) the lid falling shut instead of me closing it as GENTLY as possible.
2) trying to hit any buttons (ffw, pause, record, whatever) before the LOAD/00:00:00/TOP/00:00:00 cycle is complete, i.e. once it's stopped making its loading noises.
3) the tape lid itself getting screwed up somehow, especially stuck open. I've retrieved a few 'eaten' tapes that still had the slider door open on the bottom. This is more a tape issue than a deck issue, of course.

But a good diagnostic check - at least for the D7/D8, and an off-board +T to the taper who originally mentioned it to me - is to turn on the back light while you're loading the tape. If there's any kind of misload, the power will cycle, the light will turn off, and you'll know there was a misload. This is especially helpful if you're not looking at your deck as it loads or if the music is too loud for you to hear your deck going through all the motions.

Hope this helps!

--Dave
Unofficial Blues Traveler archivist - glad to work on any BT or related recordings
archive.org admin - happy to upload tracked material to the LMA

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.264 seconds with 40 queries.
© 2002-2017 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF
Website Design by Foxtrot Media, Inc., a Baltimore Website Company