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Author Topic: AD2K+ Settings  (Read 5603 times)

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Offline dgale

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AD2K+ Settings
« on: March 29, 2005, 12:33:00 AM »
I just picked up an AD2K+ (thanks Jason!) and am hoping some folks have some input on the best input level and word length settings to use.  I will be running one of the two following combinations:

KM140's>MP-2>AD2K+>VX @24bit & DAT @16bit
or
Sbd>AD2K+>VX @24bit & DAT @16bit

First off, I'm not real clear on how you choose an input level setting to best match my pre (MP-2), as well as how to know what the best setting is when getting a Sbd feed.  Also, I will typically run to my laptop @24bit but want to be able to feed 16bit patchers and/or run a DAT back-up for myself but am unsure what is the best word length setting(s) to use for either of the above setups...the AD2K+ manual isn't overly clear on the differences between the different modes.

Thanks in advance for any help/advice.
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Offline MattD

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Re: AD2K+ Settings
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2005, 09:39:11 AM »
Out of the game … for now?

Offline scb

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Re: AD2K+ Settings
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2005, 09:45:05 AM »
with the mp2, run it at +18 or +20

the "var" setting will output whatever the word length mode selected on the switch is on the main outs, and 24bit on the aux outs


so if you have 16n3s selected, it'll output the dithered 16 bit on main out and the 24 bit signal on the aux out

Offline makers marc

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Re: AD2K+ Settings
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2005, 11:06:18 AM »
what Scott said. No point running it below 18 or 20...the only issue is making sure you have enough headroom not to clip the mp-2. Unfortunately, running the ad2k means you have to run the mp-2 fairly hot, which in my experience is not a great thing.

as for the word length options, play around. I know people who hated the noise shaping and always ran near nyquist, and also people who liked it the other way around. I always ran ns3 and was relatively happy with the results.
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Offline BC

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Re: AD2K+ Settings
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2005, 12:16:25 PM »
I forget why, but I seem to remember most people running NS3 or NN2 for most typical shows. I think the Benchmark website describes in detail the different settings. Happy taping, sweet converter!!

:)


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Offline trajhip2000

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Re: AD2K+ Settings
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2005, 01:37:39 PM »
iirc the Benchmark website includes a full set of plots at different sampling rates illustrating the difference in the dither modes. Basically as you go from the NN to the NS settings the noise-shaping shifts more dither noise from the midrange (where the ear is more sensitive) to the higher frequencies, so you get better resolution in the mids at the expense of more noise on the top end (which may or may not be audible).

My own personal preference is to stay away from the more radically noise-shaped NS-type dither schemes when recording music with lots of top-end e.g. cymbals, out of concern that this might add a little too much sizzle to the top end. So even though I have access to the Waves IDR dithers (some of which have some pretty complicated higher-order noise shaping) I default to Apogee's UV22HR (which isn't radically noise-shaped) for most things, even though it doesn't necessarily give the lowest noise floor in the midrange.

You can see a bunch of dither comparisons here:

http://audio.rightmark.org/lukin/dither/dither.htm

One might note that the differences we are talking about here are well below the noise floor of pretty much all live concert recordings, so the argument could be made that it doesn't really matter what you use...

Steve

Offline BC

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Re: AD2K+ Settings
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2005, 12:46:09 PM »


One might note that the differences we are talking about here are well below the noise floor of pretty much all live concert recordings, so the argument could be made that it doesn't really matter what you use...

Steve


good point, the effects might be more noticeable when recording real instrument sounds such as on stage or in a quiet studio than a PA in a bar.
+t

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Offline macdaddy

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Re: AD2K+ Settings
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2010, 12:14:36 PM »
Ran last night and for the first time ever (had the unit for over a year), I had lots of distortion/clipping yet the levels on the ad2k and the bit bucket never went over. Don't think I moved the input level of the ad2k but it was set at +22. the aerco was on it's highest (or second highest) gain setting. Would moving the input level to +18 take care of the problem? The levels looked good on the gear, but at home I could hear distortion, which has never happened before.

Is there any difference in sound quality at +20 or +18? also the manual says (I just looked) to use the +14 setting for unbalanced inputs. Should I be using this? Would the sound quality take a hit doing so?

Thx in advance for any help, advice or insight. I have another opportunity to record tonight, so I would like to get this setting thing hammered out...
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 06:18:25 PM by macdaddy »
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Offline tedyun

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Re: AD2K+ Settings
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2010, 01:38:27 PM »
How much gain did you have on the Aerco? Maybe it was distorting at that stage? Would it be possible to go from the 1/8 out to a separate deck, or monitor with headphones?

Also, check your cables. The wiring is different for the analog in's than standard. Basically you have to switch the pin 2 and 3 on the XLR-M plug going into the AD2K+. This sucks because I just had tgakidis make me a set of cables to go from the V3 > AD2K+, and I forgot to tell him about the polarity inversion!


Ran last night and for the first time ever (had the unit for over a year), I had lots of distortion/clipping yet the levels on the ad2k and the bit bucket never went over. Don't think I moved the input level of the ad2k but it was set at +22. the aerco was on it's highest gain setting. Would moving the input level to +18 take care of the problem? The levels looked good on the gear, but at home I could hear distortion, which has never happened before.

Is there any difference in sound quality at +20 or +18? also the manual says (I just looked) to use the +14 setting for unbalanced inputs. Should I be using this? Would the sound quality take a hit doing so?

Thx in advance for any help, advice or insight. I have another opportunity to record tonight, so I would like to get this setting thing hammered out...
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
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Offline macdaddy

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Re: AD2K+ Settings
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2010, 01:52:04 PM »
Thx for the info.

 was set at its second highest setting. +40 is what it says on the faceplate. Like I said, the weird part is that  I have used the unit many times without any of this. I was surprised today to find that the input level was at +22 because i thought it was always at +20. I was thinking of running at +18 just to be safe tonight.

Re: the cables
The cables I use are just short darktrains, but I don't think we did anything about polarity. You mean I have to get custom cables made..?
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Offline tedyun

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Re: AD2K+ Settings
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2010, 02:45:28 PM »
How did it go last night? Did you have the same problem?

From reading about polarity inversion, it doesn't sound like it will produce the most audible effect, so the clipping is probably not caused by that.




Thx for the info.

 was set at its second highest setting. +40 is what it says on the faceplate. Like I said, the weird part is that  I have used the unit many times without any of this. I was surprised today to find that the input level was at +22 because i thought it was always at +20. I was thinking of running at +18 just to be safe tonight.

Re: the cables
The cables I use are just short darktrains, but I don't think we did anything about polarity. You mean I have to get custom cables made..?
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
Video: Canon HF100

Offline scb

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Re: AD2K+ Settings
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2010, 09:35:41 AM »
Is there any difference in sound quality at +20 or +18? also the manual says (I just looked) to use the +14 setting for unbalanced inputs. Should I be using this? Would the sound quality take a hit doing so?

Thx in advance for any help, advice or insight. I have another opportunity to record tonight, so I would like to get this setting thing hammered out...

the higher the setting on the ad2k, the higher the signal you need to feed it.  If I were still running the ad2k, i'd probably run it on 18, 16 or 14

Offline macdaddy

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Re: AD2K+ Settings
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2010, 09:11:16 AM »
Thx for the input fellas. Real life took over and I wasn't able to record again, but I will likely Be in the field this weekend. I am gonna run the ad2k at +18 and hope for the best. I am still kind of confused why if all the aerco settings stayed the same, and the meters showed no clipping, as to why I got distortion when the unit was set to +22, but hopefully movin her down to eighteen will do the trick. I will report back...

Or should o be running at +14 since the inputs are unbalanced?

Thx again.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 09:13:07 AM by macdaddy »
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akg c422 > s42 > lunatec v2 > ad2k+ > roland r-44

Offline scb

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Re: AD2K+ Settings
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2010, 09:25:08 AM »
Thx for the input fellas. Real life took over and I wasn't able to record again, but I will likely Be in the field this weekend. I am gonna run the ad2k at +18 and hope for the best. I am still kind of confused why if all the aerco settings stayed the same, and the meters showed no clipping, as to why I got distortion when the unit was set to +22, but hopefully movin her down to eighteen will do the trick. I will report back...

Or should o be running at +14 since the inputs are unbalanced?

Thx again.

if your preamp is overloading, your a/d won't show it if it's set to a level where the max output of the preamp doesn't hit 0dbfs on the a/d.  so let's say your ad2k is set at +22 and the max your pre can output is +20.  your ad2k will NEVER hit 0dbfs because you actually have it calibrated for +22 = 0dbfs.  so even though your preamp might be distorting the signal a hell of a lot, your ad2k will show the signal hitting a max of -2

Offline macdaddy

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Re: AD2K+ Settings
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2010, 07:14:36 PM »
Ok.

So if the preamp was overloading, and I back her off to stop that, then I should also back the ad2k+ off to +18 or so, so that it wants a less hot signal from the preamp to get close to fsd on the adc levels..? Should I drop all the way down to +14 (the ad2k manual says this is for unbalanced inputs, which the aerco provides) or should I try +18?

Thx for educating me on this. +t
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