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Author Topic: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please  (Read 3783 times)

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Offline relaxing

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http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/DEN-AD20-MINI

I can't find much discussion about this little guy.  Is anyone taping with it?

Basically, I need something to go between my 4061s and my JB3, AND I want it stealth!   AD conversion optional.  There don't seem to be many options... the SP-PREAMP has been knocked on here as being too noisy.  I don't feel like getting microdot connectors put back on just to use the DPA battery box.

Maybe I'll just mod a preamp with one of those bb schematics that's floating around.
dpa 4061s -> marantz pmd620

Offline Govt Mule

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2005, 04:17:19 PM »
I use one when I stealth. I don't get much use out of it, but I like usingit.
 It could have more low end.

It is easy to use in the field, and I have never been busted while using it with my JB3. A littlepricey for what I us it for, but what the heck.
I though about selling it and my AT831's and 2 jb2's to fund a higher quality hard disk recorder, I guess if I sell by V3 too I could come close to getting a 722.
Water tastes funny when you're far from your home, But it's only the thirsty that hunger to roam.- John Prine

Offline pfife

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2005, 04:58:51 PM »
you can get a used modSBM-1 for around the same price as that (new)... and it'll sound way better.   Other people have reported the need, and inability, to attenuate those AD-20s.
Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

Offline Govt Mule

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2005, 05:08:34 PM »
I never had any trouble with it. I have the mini mod. I have a friend who uses an unmoded one with Beyer dynamic mics. I could see issues with condensers, but not if you just need plug in mini power.
Water tastes funny when you're far from your home, But it's only the thirsty that hunger to roam.- John Prine

Offline pfife

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2005, 05:16:23 PM »
Yeah, its wierd - if you look, there's a number of threads about it - some people report needing to attenuate, and some people don't.  This is also the case with a battery box -> AD-20 for some people - some report needing an attenuator (I did!) others don't.  I haven't been able to figure out what it is, but my suspicion is the SoundPro's bboxes.

I'd just hate to see someone purchase and be screwed.  But I still think the ModSBM-1 is a way better sounding item than an AD-20.  Especially and AD-20 for $529.  Considering that a used AD-20 goes for around $150 - $200, is that mod worth $350, since they can't be found used very easily?  That's something the purchaser needs to consider, IMO.

My personal experience was that I needed attenuators w/ all of these rigs:

DPA4061 -> SP-SPSB-1 -> AD-20
SPMics -> SP-SPSB-3 -> AD-20
AT853Rx -> PS-2 -> AD-20

I guess its possible that my AD-20 was whack, as that's the only commonality in those rigs.  But, if you do need attenuators, you can't attenuate that thing.



Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

Offline Govt Mule

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2005, 05:18:28 PM »
It could be that the mini mod takes care of the issue.
Water tastes funny when you're far from your home, But it's only the thirsty that hunger to roam.- John Prine

Offline pfife

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Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

Offline Govt Mule

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2005, 05:22:47 PM »
Beats me. I have run at shows right in front of the stacks and never had any issues. (other than having to wear ear plugs)
Water tastes funny when you're far from your home, But it's only the thirsty that hunger to roam.- John Prine

Offline pfife

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2005, 05:24:10 PM »
I know it man... it totally perplexes me as well.

I think the main problem is that the AD-20, even when turned all the way down, adds +17dbs of gain...

Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

Offline relaxing

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2005, 07:36:36 PM »
you can get a used modSBM-1 for around the same price as that (new)... and it'll sound way better.   Other people have reported the need, and inability, to attenuate those AD-20s.


Where can you get those?  The only place I see is B&H and they're backordered.  And what mod?

I'd really like to get a battery box and preamp in one package.  In the interest of going cheap now, I'd forgo the external ADC until I'm ready to join the ranks of the truly hardcore  ;D
dpa 4061s -> marantz pmd620

Offline pfife

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2005, 09:10:09 PM »
The AD-20 that is modded is the only thing I can think of that would be one box supplying battery power... that's an external ADC.  I guess a battery box w/ level controls/bass rolloff would be the next cheapest option... 

I'm sure there are other options I'm not aware of.
Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

Offline goose

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2005, 09:38:54 PM »
For close to the same price noted above, you could get the DPA mini-mic preamp (mma6000) for $450 and have microdots installed for about $75 per mic.

Offline relaxing

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2005, 07:21:24 AM »
so I could pay more to get an inferior preamp, no a/d, and have to buy yet more converters to use the mics with other equipment...  :-\

still it might be worth it to get something that *just works*.
dpa 4061s -> marantz pmd620

Offline pfife

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2005, 07:36:12 AM »
Mod SBM-1!  Watch the garage sale section!  The only downside is that you need a somewhat expensive cable to get an optical output from the SBM-1 for the JB3... but if you are thinking of spending ~$500 on a small pre/ad, this and an sound pro's bb is prolly gonna be the best sounding option.  I ran an AD-20 for quite a while, but I am much happier with the mod SBM-1.  that's just me though.



Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

Offline Burnt

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2005, 08:55:02 AM »

 I don't feel like getting microdot connectors put back on just to use the DPA battery box.


I have 4061's that end in Lemo connectors.  When I purchased my DPA batt box from the Canadian distributer here in Toronto, they modded the batt box with some Lemo connector inputs instead of having to attach microdot connectors to the ends of my mics.  Now I can go Lemo in but also still have the microdot inputs to use since they were never disconnected.  So you might want to inquire about possibly modding the box from DPA
AKG C4000 > P-mod UA-5 > NJB3 (48KHz) > SVU-2
DPA 4061 (x1, hat mounted) > MPS 6010 > P-mod UA-5 >  NJB3 (48KHz)

Looking for another 4061 or even a pair of 406x mics to replace my single.  Please help me stealth in stereo.

Offline pfife

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2005, 09:28:45 AM »
that's awesome;  very nice for people who buy lemo DPA's off ebay-  do you have a name of the distributor who did that? +t

Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

Offline relaxing

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2005, 11:11:06 AM »

 I don't feel like getting microdot connectors put back on just to use the DPA battery box.


I have 4061's that end in Lemo connectors.  When I purchased my DPA batt box from the Canadian distributer here in Toronto, they modded the batt box with some Lemo connector inputs instead of having to attach microdot connectors to the ends of my mics.  Now I can go Lemo in but also still have the microdot inputs to use since they were never disconnected.  So you might want to inquire about possibly modding the box from DPA

do you know what bias voltage the DPA box puts out?  I thought I read on here it's the standard 9V, but it'd be nice to know for sure.
dpa 4061s -> marantz pmd620

Offline Fisherking

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2005, 12:34:27 PM »
The modification done on the AD20 to get plug-in power isn´t very complicated. I think you could easily do it yourself. If you can live with the +17db gain I would get a standard AD20 (used) and mod it myself. That is if the AD20 is what you want.

I am also very intrested in the output voltage on the DPA box.
DPA 4061/SPcmc4->SP SB1/AD20->SonyD100/JB3

Offline Burnt

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2005, 01:20:47 PM »
that's awesome;  very nice for people who buy lemo DPA's off ebay-  do you have a name of the distributor who did that? +t



Ebay is where I bought my 4061's   ;D
I'll need to get back to you on the name of the distributor.
AKG C4000 > P-mod UA-5 > NJB3 (48KHz) > SVU-2
DPA 4061 (x1, hat mounted) > MPS 6010 > P-mod UA-5 >  NJB3 (48KHz)

Looking for another 4061 or even a pair of 406x mics to replace my single.  Please help me stealth in stereo.

Offline relaxing

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2005, 01:59:41 PM »
that's awesome;  very nice for people who buy lemo DPA's off ebay-  do you have a name of the distributor who did that? +t


pfife, how did you rewire your 4061s?  Any tricks?  And they run fine off the SP BB?
dpa 4061s -> marantz pmd620

Offline pfife

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2005, 02:33:39 PM »
cut off lemos and solder them to a stereo miniplug.  Each has a + and a sheild.  Miniplug has ring for each +, and a sheild for both.  Only problem is that its very, very small.  Run fine off the sound pros bb.
Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

Offline peterbilt

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2005, 03:06:49 PM »
I do realize that I don't know my ass from my elbow when it comes to modding chips and such, but has anyone looked into the possibility of disbling the 17db gain of the AD20, and still be able to use the adjustable gain?
Granted, it still wouldn't supply power to mics, but I'm curious if it is possible.

Offline drewloo

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2005, 10:01:19 PM »
I though about selling it and my AT831's and 2 jb2's to fund a higher quality hard disk recorder, I guess if I sell by V3 too I could come close to getting a 722.

Sell it to me at a good price & when I'm not using it you can borrow it.  :)
You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer.  -FZ

Offline Govt Mule

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2005, 11:11:47 PM »
Make me an offer.
Water tastes funny when you're far from your home, But it's only the thirsty that hunger to roam.- John Prine

Offline setboy

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2005, 07:13:44 PM »
I do realize that I don't know my ass from my elbow when it comes to modding chips and such, but has anyone looked into the possibility of disbling the 17db gain of the AD20, and still be able to use the adjustable gain?
Granted, it still wouldn't supply power to mics, but I'm curious if it is possible.


this is what i got from Denecke


Hi Raphael,
Unfortunately, there is no way to bypass the pre amp gain.

Best regards,

Charlie



At 11:39 AM 4/3/05 -0400, you wrote:
>hi
>i have a question about the ad-20
>
>is there any way of disbling the gain in the ad-20?
>
>
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Raphael
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Offline Evil Taper

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2005, 06:19:34 AM »
If you read the DPA website regarding the 4061 mics they say you can use a phantom power source for them even.  I don't know if that would solve the problem and I KNOW I've seen people say NO PHANTOM EVER for the 4061s.  You might want to talk to JK Labs about having a unit built but who the heck knows how long that would take or how much it'd cost.  If someone on the board were very handy electronically and able to get a business loan alot of money could be made producing stealth powering items that tapers need.  A small full blow phantom setup the size of a standard batt box or a batt box with built in a/d + pre...it'd make our lives easier for sure.
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Offline tchoub

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2005, 08:14:50 AM »
If you read the DPA website regarding the 4061 mics they say you can use a phantom power source for them even.  I don't know if that would solve the problem and I KNOW I've seen people say NO PHANTOM EVER for the 4061s.  You might want to talk to JK Labs about having a unit built but who the heck knows how long that would take or how much it'd cost.  If someone on the board were very handy electronically and able to get a business loan alot of money could be made producing stealth powering items that tapers need.  A small full blow phantom setup the size of a standard batt box or a batt box with built in a/d + pre...it'd make our lives easier for sure.
regarding the dpa 406x powering options (from the DPA's web site) : "A wide range of connection adapters makes it possible to use the 4061 with close to any professional wireless system available plus 48 V phantom" . So, in my opinion, this means that no direct 48V powering is possible except if you use one of the available adapters.

regarding the small-sized powering/a-d/pre unit that you are looking for, I think that the new Sonosax MINIR2 is going to be your best friend :)

Offline pfife

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2005, 08:31:30 AM »
One of their boxes allows phantom power to flow though it and filtering it down...  you can't run them on phantom power w/o somehow notching the amount of pwer way down...

besides, if you can get optimum performance from a small battery box, why lug around a phantom power unit if you don't need to?  Unless, of course, you don't have a battery box.
Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

Offline relaxing

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2005, 10:02:51 AM »
Yeah, I was under the impression their adapters just throttle the 48V down to the usual 9V (although the manual claims they can run down to 3V). 

This has been my philosophy as well in chosing a pre/power box - the resistors in the converters are just dissipating away ~40V, so better to get only what is necessary.

regarding the new 'sax - isn't it a flash recorder?  I went with a jb3 to get away from media costs and tape flips.
dpa 4061s -> marantz pmd620

Offline Evil Taper

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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2005, 09:55:26 PM »
When ordering a batt box from sound pros you can select a gain control option, would this add more volume or what?
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Re: AD20-MINI opinions? or other bb/preamp combo suggestions please
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2005, 10:08:27 PM »
When ordering a batt box from sound pros you can select a gain control option, would this add more volume or what?


it will add as much gain as your SP-SPSB-7 does but with the gain control option you can turn the gain off or lower if you want


Raphael
where has the respect gone?
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