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Author Topic: (mod)SBM1 Vs. PCM-M1 A/D Converter Comp (Spoilers/Answers now inside...)  (Read 6991 times)

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Offline Chris K

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after listening repeatedly with headphones and with nearfields, i thought the source A of both tracks 1 and 2 sounded better...more impact and a fuller sound all around.

i am curious how each gain was set on the m1 and the sbm-1. were they both dialed in at say 7 on the gain dial, or was the m1 higher in gain setting than the sbm-1. i would venture to say that the m1 was probably dialed in a little higher than the sbm-1 to achive such a similar sound.

also it seems like it was a smaller room. have you tried the same test in a larger venue? from further away from the stage...say 20ft or so? or off center? i just wonder if the worse the conditions are the better (or not) the mod-sbm1 performs.
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Offline JasonSobel

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On a related note, and at the risk of thread-hijacking, is there a stealthable A/D for 24?


There is the Core Sound mic2496.  It is the size of an AD-20.  I have a few 24 bit shows made with it, but not enough for me to form a complete opinion.

Offline Tim

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I think there are a lot of variables that go into deciding whether or not a particular piece of gear is "worth it". Don't rush to judgment based on one comparison, especially if you don't record with the same mics and pre, the same style of music, the same type of venue, etc...

comparisons are great, I enjoy them a lot but I try to never make a decision on gear until I've held it in my hand and run it myself....
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Nick Graham

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after listening repeatedly with headphones and with nearfields, i thought the source A of both tracks 1 and 2 sounded better...more impact and a fuller sound all around.

i am curious how each gain was set on the m1 and the sbm-1. were they both dialed in at say 7 on the gain dial, or was the m1 higher in gain setting than the sbm-1. i would venture to say that the m1 was probably dialed in a little higher than the sbm-1 to achive such a similar sound.

also it seems like it was a smaller room. have you tried the same test in a larger venue? from further away from the stage...say 20ft or so? or off center? i just wonder if the worse the conditions are the better (or not) the mod-sbm1 performs.

It's weird you mention Source A for both tracks, as they're different sources...the 1st track Source A is just the M1, the Source A on the 2nd track is (mod)SBM1>D8. That pretty much proves Tim's theory below though...different bands/types of music/venues may be benefit more from one or the other.

Both of the bands in this comp are just local groups I'm friends with, so I was able to setup during soundcheck and get the levels pretty much exact on both. FWIW the SXM2 was on low gain at 10 0'clock, the M1 was set at 8, and the (mod)SBM1>D8 was at about 6 1/2.

I'm gonna be running the same comp twice this week in 2 other venues, if there's any interest I'll post the results. I just bought a pair of MK21s for outdoor use this summer, so the first chance I get I'll do another test with those.

I think there are a lot of variables that go into deciding whether or not a particular piece of gear is "worth it". Don't rush to judgment based on one comparison, especially if you don't record with the same mics and pre, the same style of music, the same type of venue, etc...

comparisons are great, I enjoy them a lot but I try to never make a decision on gear until I've held it in my hand and run it myself....

No plans on selling the (mod)SBM1 just yet. Even though I actually like just the M1 more so far, I'll do a lot more listening before I get rid of it. It's also kinda nice to have in my arsenal "just in case".
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Offline fobstl

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I've always read & been told that you need to run line-in and run the 20 db ATT setting in order to get the most out of the m1's A/D converter. 

FYI the "20 db ATT" setting on the M1 is only active through mic in. Take a look at the setting on the deck itself - it is called "Mic ATT". This setting has no effect when running line in. That being said, as you mentioined, running line in should give better results because you are bypassing the not so great mic pre circuitry in the M1.

Offline Tim

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steve - you are getting to be a regular around here!
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Brian

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steve - you are getting to be a regular around here!

yep.....we totally sucked him in ;D  he can no longer fight the addiction

BTW - I've always been a fan of the M1's A>D  and these results are not surprising to me at all.

Offline Tim

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I have to say that the 3 shows I have done in the last week line in to the m1 have all been very enjoyable. I now have a RamsdenMod-SBM1 to play around with too so I'm looking forward to doing some comparison's

I'm wondering if the fact that I am not taping pa's will make any differences more dramatic....
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Brian

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I'm wondering if the fact that I am not taping pa's will make any differences more dramatic....

what are you going to be recording m0k3 jr.?

:P

(i couldn't resist, sorry)

An ensemble that puts a full range of frequncies will definitely allow you to hear the difference much easier than comparing PA tapes made from a taping section, no doubt.

edit:  wow, what a competely obvious statement i just made :D 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2005, 03:25:10 PM by STL-Taper »

Offline Tim

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I'm not quite Moke Jr but I'm progressing in that direction :P

I still have to stealth all of the classical stuff that I see :)
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Brian

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:) +T

that DPA setup is quite nice. 

Offline Tim

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in a blind comp with any other omni's you would have a hard time discerning the difference between the mini dpa's and the big boys

I am thoroughly impressed.

the preamp is quite nice too, very clean gain and built exceptionally well... it's like a mini Grace product. I'm hoping to have a V3 to throw behind these mics by the end of summer.
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Nick Graham

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I'm hoping to have a V3 to throw behind these mics by the end of summer.

Wow...

4061>V3, can't say I've ever heard that before, I'd imagine it would sound extremely nice though.
Right now nothing...in the past: Schoeps CMC6, AKG 480, AKG 460, AKG 414, MBHO 603a, Neumann KM100, ADK TL>Schoeps MK4, Schoeps MK2, Schoeps MK41, AKG ck61, AKG ck62, AKG ck63, Neumann AK40, Neumann AK50, MBHO ka200>Lunatec V2, Lunatec V3, Apogee Mini-Me, Oade M148, Oade M248, Sound Devices MP2, Sonosax SXM2>Sony (mod)SBM1, Apogee AD500>D7, D8, D100, M1, R1, R4, R09, iRiver HP120, Microtrack

Offline fobstl

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steve - you are getting to be a regular around here!

yep.....we totally sucked him in ;D  he can no longer fight the addiction
Yeah, you pushers lured me in. "You should check it out - all the cool kids are doing it".

Offline makers marc

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in a blind comp with any other omni's you would have a hard time discerning the difference between the mini dpa's and the big boys

I am thoroughly impressed.

the preamp is quite nice too, very clean gain and built exceptionally well... it's like a mini Grace product. I'm hoping to have a V3 to throw behind these mics by the end of summer.

yeah, I'd like some omnis, and rather than kick down 3k for a pair of 4028 or whatever the omni bodyless are, I've thought that a pair of 4061>xlr adaptors would do the job.

as for the M1 a/d, it is truly topnotch. I'd prefer it over the p-1 and even the hhb a/d, and definitely over the d8. however, I think that although it is very smooth, the m1 a/d does not quite have the fine detail of the modsbm1. ymmv of course.
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