Topic: Sonosax at no gain?

[Nick Graham]

Has anyone ever ran the SXM2 at the "No Gain" setting in front of another pre?

I'd like to try a few different preamps/ADs behind the Schoeps, but to be able to still use the KCY actives, I'm kinda tied to the Sax.

It would seem like setting it it to No Gain would basically make the Sonosax act as mic bodies, and not really alter the sound direct from the caps.

Am I completely offbase here?

[bhadella]

Has anyone ever ran the SXM2 at the "No Gain" setting in front of another pre?

I'd like to try a few different preamps/ADs behind the Schoeps, but to be able to still use the KCY actives, I'm kinda tied to the Sax.

It would seem like setting it it to No Gain would basically make the Sonosax act as mic bodies, and not really alter the sound direct from the caps.

Am I completely offbase here?

Skalinder has ran the Sax at zero gain infront of a V3 before.  He posted the tapes in the Kickdown area...

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=40965.0

I think he found the sax to be noisier than using the CMC6 bodies.  I'm sure he would be able to elaborate on the sonic differences.....

[monochromic]

i've never run the sax in front of my v3 in the field before, however if you'd like i could set up a comparison this evening of;

mk4 / kcy > sonosax (0db gain) > v3 against;
mk4 / kc5 / cmc6xt > v3

just running in front of my playback system at home. let me know.

[Kyle]

i've never run the sax in front of my v3 in the field before, however if you'd like i could set up a comparison this evening of;

mk4 / kcy > sonosax (0db gain) > v3 against;
mk4 / kc5 / cmc6xt > v3

just running in front of my playback system at home. let me know.

I would really like to hear that....

I have been thinking about picking up a Sax to fool around with - I do not run a V3 (V2/AD2k) - but I would like to hear it - I have been curious about the noise levels of the Sax....

[monochromic]

I would really like to hear that....

done. will set it up tonight and post the results shortly thereafter, should be interesting.

edit: just thinking, would there be any problems using say a 2 min sample of a commercial recording for the comparison? if so, any suggestions of a recording to use?

[Kyle]

I would really like to hear that....

done. will set it up tonight and post the results shortly thereafter, should be interesting.

edit: just thinking, would there be any problems using say a 2 min sample of a commercial recording for the comparison? if so, any suggestions of a recording to use?

that's a good point...

maybe a recording of a freely traded band?

thanks for doing the comp!    +T

[monochromic]

ok, comparison recorded. pm me for details, i'll host it on my ftp unless demand creeps up. for the record the comparison was between;

schoeps mk4 / kcy > sonosax sx-m2/ls2 (0db gain) > lunatec v3 > d100 dat
schoeps mk4 / kc5 / cmc6xt > lunatec v3 > d100 dat

ran the mics in dina config, seague dogstar xlr's used in both cases. playback source was arcam cd23t / arcam a22 / b&w cdm1-nt.

[marc0789]

Has anyone ever ran the SXM2 at the "No Gain" setting in front of another pre?

I'd like to try a few different preamps/ADs behind the Schoeps, but to be able to still use the KCY actives, I'm kinda tied to the Sax.

It would seem like setting it it to No Gain would basically make the Sonosax act as mic bodies, and not really alter the sound direct from the caps.

Am I completely offbase here?

Skalinder has ran the Sax at zero gain infront of a V3 before.  He posted the tapes in the Kickdown area...

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=40965.0

I think he found the sax to be noisier than using the CMC6 bodies.  I'm sure he would be able to elaborate on the sonic differences.....

and he had some issues with that combo. ask him. running the sx that low created some nasty digital hiss.

[monochromic]

and he had some issues with that combo. ask him. running the sx that low created some nasty digital hiss.

i found the exact same thing whilst running the comp last night. at first i thought it was caused by something in the lineage, but then i read your post. when the music is pumping it really isn't a problem, but when silent it's certainly noticeable.

kyle/nick, the flac files from last night's comp are ready to roll, if you still want to compare give me a yell and i'll send over the ftp details -- makes for interesting listening.

[Brian Skalinder]

and he had some issues with that combo. ask him. running the sx that low created some nasty digital hiss.

I don't know if it's an issue with running in 0dB mode specifically, or if the self-noise is always there when applying gain with the Sax.  I've not noticed the self-noise in running the Sax with gain, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

A good test would be to run the Sax at it's lowest gain setting(+20dB I think) into the V3 and see if the self-noise is still present.

• If not, then that leads me to believe they perhaps implemented the 0dB mode poorly - perhaps a noisy attenuator applied to the minimum 20dB gain that causes the noise. 
• If yes, then it's gotta be a function of the overall design, independent of whether running in 0, low, or high gain settings.

Unfortunately, I'm unable test further b/c my Lemosax is on the way out...I just don't stealth enough to warrant owning it (and it's spoken for).

[mmedley.]

I've run 4V > Sax (0db) > V3 > M1. Check out 5-16/17-03 of Panic at the Murat. One of my favorite tapes I've made. That is the only time I've ran than combo.

You can download them via FTP at http://www.grandpuba.org

Actually I think just one night is up there, but I can upload the other.

Edit:

Haven't run that combo with actives BTW.

[jbraveman]

I ran 4022 > Sax (0 db) > SBM (10) > M1 for ABB this summer.  The levels were otherwise too hot.  I did not hear any problems.  I would be interested to know if there is a potential problem and if this should be avoided.

[Brian Skalinder]

I would be interested to know if there is a potential problem and if this should be avoided.

I don't think there's a "problem" per se.  I suspect it's simply the bits inside the SX-M2/LS2 that replace the CMC6 bodies have more self-noise than the CMC6 bodies, and this becomes apparent when applying very high gain (for the Del show, I ran the V3 at +65dB!)  So any self noise inherent in the system before the V3 would surely get amplified to a more noticable level.  I've never noticed it on any other SX-M2/LS2 recordings.

[monochromic]

sounds right to me, when running the comparison (where i noticed the noise) i had the v3 gain set quite high -- at +50db. i too, had never noticed this on any of the recordings i made whilst running the sonosax solo.

[F.O.Bean]

i've never run the sax in front of my v3 in the field before, however if you'd like i could set up a comparison this evening of;

mk4 / kcy > sonosax (0db gain) > v3 against;
mk4 / kc5 / cmc6xt > v3

just running in front of my playback system at home. let me know.

I would really like to hear that....

I have been thinking about picking up a Sax to fool around with - I do not run a V3 (V2/AD2k) - but I would like to hear it - I have been curious about the noise levels of the Sax....

kyle, IMO, schoeps>sax is the ONLY combo to run, except maybe schoeps>v3, YMMV

the schoeps>sax phish tapes are my favorite phish tapes ever, just in front of the schoeps t00bes>v3 sound!